seedlings dieing quickly in coco..please help

[inreplyavalon]

Greetings folks. Posted in infirmary but thought i would try and get some coco experts to chime in.

Long story short, just bailed on my mamas as root aphids had decimated a grow. They were everywhere and instead of spending a year battling them, and because i was moving nayway, i popped my years worth of seed collection.

Popped fifty, 49 broke through the coco and in the last twenbty four hours 5-10 have died or are about to.

The stems are just folding over on themselves. they get real thin and soft about half way up and just die.

Temps have been a steady 78. Humidity is low. Coco is roots organic bales which is quality and pretreated. I saturated it with 2 ml. karma, and 2 ml. of calmag.

I let it dry out abit once they broke the coco surface and then three days later i fed them a solution of the same as what i pretreated with, at a PH of 6.0.
They are under fluoros and they are about a half inch above the plants.
They looked great for the first 3-4 days and now seem to be dieing fast!
Please help.

 

[chemsteady]

hmmm...

hmmm...

well is sounds like theyre dampening off, and that usually means that the rooting environment is too damp. how often are you watering?

this how i usually start seeds, not that different than a lot of folks, and i always have a good amount of success.

1-seeds go straight into canna coco-im not sure why people use untreated coco, aside from it being cheaper, but a huge bag of canna only costs about 19 bucks. id say that good quality coco that you can use, right out the bag is worth its weight in gold. kinda. if you do need to use a coco thats in bales or bricks, rinse and soak your coco, dont need to ph it, dont need to add anything other than tap water. seeds dont need a proper ph yet, and they dont need additives. until you see the first set of true leaves, you shouldnt be feeding them anything but tap. you dont need to ph, but if you think it helps, ph between 5.6-6.0.

2-get your solo cups ready, or whatever, by moistening the coco, lightly, not soaked, the consistency of sponge cake is good to shoot for. so, seeds are in coco, coco is in a cup or something, put the seedlings on a seedling mat, set it to about 75, if you have temp control, and place under some t5s, floros, etc. about a foot above. no fans!

3-now, the irrigation schedule. what you water should not be the same throughout the germination stage. that is to say, the seed only needs warmth, a little bit of moisture and some air. got the warmth (id have a hygrometer around, with the out near the rootzone of your seedlings, you dont want the rootzone too hot) from the mat, you have a porous medium that allows for a lot of air, now its all about the water. think about it. does the seed youve just sown need a full soak in its new home, or just a bit of water to get the process started? neither! we already soaked the coco, so just put that seed in the coco, and leave it alone!

4-now, dont water on a regular schedule, and do not start feeding until you see (at least), the first set of real leaves, not the cotyledons, the true leaves. when you do water, its very light, i like to use a turkey baster in the beginning to irrigate. you just want to keep the coco moist, not soaked, and only as needed. this will depend a lot on the environment, so just be vigilant.

5-once you do see the first true leaves, you can feed at half strength.

k, hth.
~c

 

[chemsteady]

also...

also...

did you say the floros were a half inch away? dude, move that light up!
~c

 

[dominicangreen]

seedlings need high humidity and lots of water and no nutrients for a week or two just ph water..flourensent light work the best for this stage and keep temps 80 dont put a fan on them but you can point fan at the wall and the breez circlelate will be enough..for that coco keep ph 6.3-6.5 they to little for lower ph levels

i thought i was helpful in your other thread

 

[chemsteady]

hmmm...

hmmm...

until a good root system is established, id go easy on the water. you definitely dont want the coco to dry out, far from that, but you shouldnt be watering seedlings all the time. theyll dampen out. just my opinion, tho.

also, fans are cool, but id wait until we have established seedlings before i started a breeze, direct, or indirect. those tiny roots are trying to establish themselves, and the jostling about may effect them. again, my opinion.
~c

 

[chemsteady]

also...

also...

and ph in coco seems (to me, and a few others) to work best between 5.6-6.0. sounds more like soil ph parameters, dg. peace
~c

 

[inreplyavalon]

chem thanks for your response. I pretty have done exactly what you laid out. I could raise the lights but they are fluoros and not that strong. The seeds already have their first set of TRUE leaves.

They were started in coco that had the water squeezed out of them and have been watered just once and just maybe an ounce or two in all of 5 or 6 days.
Damping off is all i can assume yet i KNOW i am not overwatering and the humidity is low. As far as i can tell high humidity and overwatering is what causes damping off. I have neither happening.

I am concerned to raise the lights as my experience with seedlings has been that with true leaves fluoros are never too strong. I am afraid they will stretch more if i raise them.
??????

Dominican green thanks for hel;ping out. It does seem that what you are describing in terms of PH is for soil seeds, and as far as watering often, i respectfully disagree...it causes damping off

 

[chemsteady]

well...

well...

do you have fans on them? i wouldnt. i thought you used the h3ad formula? why the calmag/lk? why not feed half (or even less) strength of the 6/9?

do you have any pics? that would help...
~c

 

[chemsteady]

also...

also...

since you are measuring the humidity, im assuming you have a hygrometer? if the humidity is too low, that can be a problem too. how low are you? whats the rootzone temps at?
~c

 

[opt1c]

i start a lot of vegetable seeds in coco; what i do to water them is place them in a flat filled about a half inch high with nute solution; i let the coco wick up a bit from the bottom and then remove and let whatever is extra drain out; i also use very small plastic cells, containers, for my seedlings, something like 1x1 squares the size of small rockwool cubes; they'll dry out quicker but if you have damping issues this is a good thing

i'll be transplanting some just germed seeds to coco soon that i'll be documenting here on the boards so i'm hoping i don't have the same problem

 

[chemsteady]

now thats a good plan!

now thats a good plan!

sounds like an idea! optic, i used to start my seeds in the same type of container, but its seems id always bungle up something in the transplant process too stoned, or too clumsy! anyhow, now i use these tiny dura pots and they seem to do the trick. small enough to water easily and big enough to let a plant establish a massive rootsystem to transplant.

ps. took a bowl of casey to the dome, and i just barely was able to type this out...look in to it!
peace
~c

 

[inreplyavalon]

Chem i am using the botanicare products because they are what i have had success with in the past, and i still have them left over. I was not really trying to feed them as much as i was just filling the cations in the fresh coco.

I would guess my humidity is in the teens as the hygrometer is not reading anything, which it sometimes does. I am going to stick a big pot of water on the heater and see where that puts it.

The coco temp is unknown, but they have been on a heat mat all along and the closet temp has been a steady 75-80. I turned off the heat mat today and the temps dropped to about 72. Needed to make a change as they are dieing off!

Optic thanks for sharing your method. I have had success using the methods i am and use the smallest dixie cups available. Really frustrating when so much hard earned cash on seeds is disappearing all the while using a technique that has proven successful in the past. Just when i think i have a clue...BOOM it blows up in my face! I iwsh you much more success than i am having with your about to be planted seeds.

 

[inreplyavalon]

what does damping off LOOK like on a seedling? Does the stem get extra thin and soft in the middle and fall over then shrivel?

 

[powdered donut]

what does damping off LOOK like on a seedling? Does the stem get extra thin and soft in the middle and fall over then shrivel?

pretty much, also look for white fuzz around the soil line. Damping-off likes cold and wet soil conditions, try putting em on a heat mat. Try backing off on the nutes as well, they really dont need much more than tap water at such a young age.

 

[powdered donut]

For reference, about 2 months ago I started 140 seeds of various strains in straight coco in small cups, similar to you. Some things i found helpful were:
Heat mats
watering with a very weak h2o2 solution
H&G Roots Excelurator
High humidity(my room had very low humidity, approx 30% RH. I used some ultrasonic foggers in a bucket of water to raise humidity to 80%) High humidity reduces the amout of waterings necessary. Also i have heard that seedlings prefer high (80+) humidity.

I had a success rate of about 85%. The heat mats seemed to be key, I didn't lose any seedlings i had on the mats to damping-off issues.

 

[Guest 18340]

I concur on the damping off. It happens to me from time/time. With seedlings, gotta find that balance of wet/not too wet.

 

[dominicangreen]

For reference, about 2 months ago I started 140 seeds of various strains in straight coco in small cups, similar to you. Some things i found helpful were:
Heat mats
watering with a very weak h2o2 solution
H&G Roots Excelurator
High humidity(my room had very low humidity, approx 30% RH. I used some ultrasonic foggers in a bucket of water to raise humidity to 80%) High humidity reduces the amout of waterings necessary. Also i have heard that seedlings prefer high (80+) humidity.

I had a success rate of about 85%. The heat mats seemed to be key, I didn't lose any seedlings i had on the mats to damping-off issues.

Good one ..

 

[dominicangreen]

Its hard to over water in coco..your leting your coco dry and its killing them the humidity is way to low and ph 6.0-6.3 will be right on...try and put like pencils or pens under your trays to keep it alittle lifted from your matt and keep matt on

 

[powdered donut]

Good one ..

Uh, thanks? Do you have something to say here or are you just going to sh*t and run? A critique of my methods perhaps?

 

[dominicangreen]

Uh, thanks? Do you have something to say here or are you just going to sh*t and run? A critique of my methods perhaps?

Dude i dont know where your getting at but i said you had good info