Help with first vertical?

[growclean]

Ok, so LJB pointed me here, and I am reading, but trying to figure everything out quick and have to be up in another 6 hours to work on the space(which will be done 100% by Sat)....

So can anyone lend a helping hand? I am thinking of trying vert after reading some good things. We will have a 10X12 room with 11' ceilings for flower alone. I was going to hang 4 1kw hps in there. What would I do with vert? We are limited to a certain number of plants due to legal limitations. We are starting with 18 now, but will move up quickly. What do you think I need for those first 18? Ultimate setup?

And what do I need to make my partner aware of to do the convincing that we need to return our magnum xxxl hoods and go vert!?

Thanks!

 

[growclean]

Ok, don't want to bump, but really want some easy help here. I promise I will return the favor. Quite simply I don't have enough time to do the appropriate research if we are going bare bulb. Can anyone help?

I have 18 clones coming on Sat. Will start vegging under a 600w horizontal mh. Finishing priming and painting the room tommorrow and then want to start to hang everything Sat morning. Does a bare light cover roughly 4X4 as a hood would? My room is 10X12 with over 11' tall ceilings. Will I need to cool them? How do I raise and lower these? How high should they be in relation to the girls (canopy, middle, what?) How many in this room for the first 18 going to tree? How many eventually? What kind of pattern?

Thanks for anyone that can respond, and here is a pic!

 

[NiteTiger]

Well, you first problem is your lighting intensity. Cannabis does best with at least 50 watts per sq ft. You're looking at 33 wpsf, so you may be able to save yourself some finishing work by shrinking that room to 8x8. Or pick up a couple more 1000s.

You will need cooling, absolutely. Even if it is just exhaust.

As far as raising and lowering vert lights, you can check out my old thread, TD4. I used an adjustable 1k vert homemade cool tube. I attached chains to one of the cool tube joints and ran the chain through a pulley on the ceiling. This came back to a hook next to the door, so all I had to do to change the light was open the door, unhook chain.

You'll want the light centered in the plants. The benefit of vert is that it allows all the budsites on the plant to receive maximum light, so you want it smack dab in the middle of 'em.

Here's some different shots from that grow.














Your last few questions I don't understand? Can you rephrase them or clarify for me?

 

[ResinGoat]

Does a bare light cover roughly 4X4 as a hood would?

600w should cover a 5x5 or 6x6 roughly

My room is 10X12 with over 11' tall ceilings. Will I need to cool them?

heat rises, so i would put fans on the floor, and an exhaust in the ceiling.

How do I raise and lower these?

chains- try home depot

How high should they be in relation to the girls (canopy, middle, what?)

i'd say canopy, hit those colas!

How many in this room for the first 18 going to tree? How many eventually? What kind of pattern?

i personally like Colosseum and stadium patterns.

Thanks for anyone that can respond, and here is a pic! [/quote]

goodluck

 

[Sam the Caveman]

check out krunchbubble 's vert thread. he uses 1ks, I think 3 in a row inside a cooltube with 8' ceilings.

 

[NiteTiger]

600w should cover a 5x5 or 6x6 roughly

4x4 is the recommended coverage for a 1kw light according to most manufacturer recommendations. 3x3 = 600, and so on.

Your rule of thumb is no less than 50 wpsf. More is great, but you don't want to go below that. With lower light intensity, you see slower growth, stretchier plants, and fluffier buds.

So 1000w in a 4x4 works out as:

4x4= 16 sq ft.

1000/16= 62.5 wpsf

Go just a tad bigger and at 5x5 your @ 40 wpsf.

So 600w over a 6x6 room gives a paltry 16 wpsf, and will be very seriously under performing.

 

[growclean]

Thanks for the quick replies. I have been reading some of krunchbubbles thread and I will recheck it.

Just to clarify though, I want to grow trees. I really only want to hang one light in each vertical plane, as in one per column (does this make sense???) How many 1000k do I need and what pattern should I arrange them in? Maybe I should draw a diagram for how I am thinking, but it is good to hear that a 600w would cover a 6X6 area for a start. I will post a drawing soon to show you what I am thinking.....


THANKS, and repped!!!!!!!!!

 

[growclean]

So here would be a potential setup with a 6X6 coverage area. This would be far less lights than I would be going horizontal, so do yall think this is OK? x represented plants at 18" and o represents 1000w lights....

 

[NiteTiger]

a 600w would cover a 6X6 area for a start

It won't.

However, since you're talking vertical, it doesn't really matter, since you're not getting a standard light footprint. But you will have some wasted light.

Your diagram looks good, only thing I have to offer is to stagger the plants in the 'double' rows so to make use of as much light as possible.

For reference, in the vert above I was running 8 plants around a 1kw, so your drawing looks good to me

 

[growclean]

Sorry Nite, I missed your post when I first posted that diagram. How about this? Or is there even a better way? Should I try to double up some of the plants? I am alowing 18" total per plant. Is this sufficient, or should I allow more?

Thanks!

 

[NiteTiger]

I like the look of that diagram a lot better. A lot.

But, I don't want you to just take my word for it. Compare what I'm telling you with some of the other vert grows around IC, and make sure you understand not only what you're doing, but also why. It'll serve you much better in the long run.

Before we can talk about space requirements, we need to talk more in detail about your setup. You're talking trees, I know, but how are you getting there? How long will they veg for, either time or size, whatever you're using? What method are you using (DWC, etc.)?

In the pics above, the plants are in 5 gallon buckets, in a 4x4 pod, and as you can see, they're packed in shoulder to shoulder.

 

[growclean]

Tige,

OK... Here is the plan... (what plan?)...

start with 18 clones (legal limits) - white widow and like....

grow at least 6 (maybe 9) full organic - soiless and teas
grow 6 organic - but purchased organic nutes
grow 3-6 soil with full chem fert

mix of pots from smallest 10g smart up to 25g smart with some non smart in between....

Sound weird? Yeah... it is right now. We want to try to nail it down with these first 18 and then double it with what works hopefully.

Everything goes well, well..... we want to do that times 8 and already have the space.... priming and painting tomorrow for the inital space. I will post some pics.

The problem is that I already have the first 18 coming on Sat.

Thanks for the help!

 

[ResinGoat]

4x4 is the recommended coverage for a 1kw light according to most manufacturer recommendations.

you are right, just looked at heathes vert grow, his inter diameter was 4' with a 600w bulb.

so you could do 4x4 with 600 and 5x5 with 1000. but i would recommend 1000w for 4x4.

 

[Sam the Caveman]

Hey growclean, If you want to grow trees and be vertical you could hang bare bulbs from the ceiling down inbetween the plants. It takes more bulbs this way, but it maximizes growth per plant. You could hang 1ks surrounded by 4 plants and along the walls hang 600s between each plant.

like this
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/bc_big_bud.jpg

 

[NiteTiger]

Careful Resin, you're crossing your area calculations. A circle 4 ft in diameter does != a 4x4 rectangle.

Area of a circle = PIr^2

So the area of Heath's canopy is 12.5 ft. 600/12.5= 48 wpsf. Close enough to our magic 50.

But, the area of a 4x4 rectangle is 16ft, which leaves us with 600/16 = 37.5 wpsf. Considerably off from our preferred lighting, and enough of a difference to make a noticeable impact.

Hope that helps!

 

[NiteTiger]

Hey growclean, If you want to grow trees and be vertical you could hang bare bulbs from the ceiling down inbetween the plants. It takes more bulbs this way, but it maximizes growth per plant. You could hang 1ks surrounded by 4 plants and along the walls hang 600s between each plant.

like this
http://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/bc_big_bud.jpg

Ahhhh, old Krusty's method. He pulled some wicked shit with that setup, but talk about spending some money.

Here's a diagram of what Sam talking about:



Absolutely bathes the plants in light, and Krusty was pulling 3 (or was it 5?) pounds per. But the setup was a WHOLE lot more complicated than the just the lighting arrangement.

Search KFB, Krusty Freedom Buckets, or Freedom Buckets for some fun reading

E: damn forums broke my formatting, brb with a Paint pic.

 

[Sam the Caveman]

Hey Nitetiger, thats what I like about Krusty's set-up was how efficient his plant count was, low plant count with whopping yeilds. I think your diagram is kind of awkward, it only has 2 sides of the plant near a bulb. I would do something like this (below) and turn the plants 1/4 turn per day or you could hang a 250 in the corners.



You say the Krusty bucket system was expensive, no more so than a RDWC which is basically what it was with a few minor changes. I really like this set-up for legal grows with plant count limits and product limits. It can be set-up perpetually so that one plant will yield the max allowably product and depending on how many blooming plants you can have and the bloom time for that strain you can figure out how you want to stagger the harvests. In colorado with a fast bloomer, ~50 days, you could legally harvest a pound every other day.

 

[NiteTiger]

Yeah, there's been lots of debate on the best lighting pattern. I certainly wasn't trying to actually lay out a grow plan, just threw together something quick to give a general overview. The one I threw up was one of the first ones I saw in Krusty's thread before he pissed everyone off @ OG and CW

It did morph quite a bit as more folks began to put it to practice.

I say Krusty's system needs some money spent, and it really does. You've got to keep in mind he was running chillers, and industrial type air and water pumps. So, in terms of getting set up, yes, you'll spend more than a 'traditional' setup just based on lights alone.

Plus, he vegged the shit outta those things, so there's a time investment there that's not necessarily required by more 'traditional' styles.

But oh, the wonderful yummyness that came out of that system...

 

[growclean]

Thanks for the replies. Sorry I am a little burned out right now to post anything constructive back, but the room is almost there. And.... I spoke to hydro shop about sourcing some of the new 1500w ballasts for us!!!!

 

[ResinGoat]

1500w ballast? Have any info on that?