Experienced Grower Has No Clue!! Check It Out.

[FLoJo]

Hey guys,

So my buddy is having an odd problem with his plants, the likes of which he, nor I have ever seen before. I do have it narrowed down to a few things, which I will save till after I fill out the sick form.

I know the pictures arent great but they have the color of a calcium def. but instead of being small little dots they are oval shaped brown lesions that are in the leaf margins.. about 5x the size of what a normal cal def. looks like IMO. anyways heres the chart

How long has this problem been going on? About 1 Week
Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non brand tents) No
What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...) Canna Coco hand watered in an ebb n flo tray
What STRAIN are you growing? AK47 and an AK/Chronic Cross
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) Clones
What is the age of your plants? 30 Days into Flower
How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..) 32 days
How tall are the plants? about 3 feet or so
What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? Flowering
What Technique are you using? SOG/ Lolipop
What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) Canna Coco
What is the Water temperature? 66-68 degrees
What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy? Pearly White
What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless) H&G, Hygrozyme, Calmag
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* H&G 6-7ml/g Hygrozyme 4ml/g Calmag 2 ml/g
How often are you feeding? (If using soiless) Once a Day
How often are you giving nutrients? (If using soiless) Every Watering
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? 3 Days Ago
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) Part A, Part B, Cal Mag, Hygrozyme, Ph Up
What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? 600-800 ppm
What is the pH of the "Tank"? 5.8-6.3
Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equitment? Absolutely
When was your last watering? Yesterday
What is your water temps? 66 degrees
When was your last feeding change? (ie. grow-bloom-micro-additional) 2 Days Ago
How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients? Daily
What size bulb are you using? 600w Hortilux
What is the distance to the canopy? 18-20 inches
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? 50%
What is the canopy temperature? 79-83 % w/ 1500ppm co2
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) 69-82
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) 800 cfm through hoods
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? Central A/C, Intake brings cool air from attic (bout 40 degrees) into lights and exhausts back into attic.. runs while lights on.. fans on every corner, plus osc fan, carbon scrubber runs all the time and 2 fans on the floor facing up to keep co2 circulating
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? yes
Is your water HARD or SOFT? 5ppm RO
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? RO
Are you using water from a water softener? No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched Trimmed bottom leaves about 10 days ago
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When? light dosage on underside of leaves with SPINOSAD to take care of a few thrips
Are plant's infected with pest's Had a few thrips at the beginning of the grow.


So my friend feeds by hand every day with about 600-800ppm nute solution and drops it down to about 200ppm once a week for a nice flush. this is actually about 200-300 ppm less than he has been doing but wanted to see if a lower nute concentration would work better.

Ok now that thats taken care of here are the conclusions I have drawn.

I am thinking it could possibly be ph fluctuation from the coco drying out too much between waterings, but it has been saturated the last few days and new spots are still appearing.

Could be a severe CAL def. but im doubtful.

It could be some rust or something from the garden hose that is causing a toxicity in the plant. however i find this unlikely because only the AK47 is showing signs, not the hybrid.

It could also be that there are not enough base nutes and needs to be kicked up a notch.

its odd though because the mothers are showing it too, but he has about 5 other mothers diff strains and none are showing signs, and the AK crosss isnt showing signs either..

anyways he would love to get some fresh insight so let me know what you think!!

 

[FLoJo]

heres a few more

 

[FLoJo]

and more

The very last pic on here is what most of the ones effected look like..

there is some slight curling of the leaf tips and about 1 in 5 have the spots... some worse than others... its so wierd!!

 

[bterzz]

I am having the same issues. Nobody can figure out what it is. Only 1/2 of my plants are doing this, and they're the same strain, same feeding schedule.

I was feeding with R/O when it started so I figured it was a cal/mag deficiency.

I've been feeding with Epsom salts and although the problem has seemed to slow down it has not stopped.

Best of luck. When you find out dont hesitate to let me know!

 

[MickTheBrag]

plants are not getting enough air circulation.



thats what the pics tell me.



peace.

 

[who dat is]

I was curious about this as well. I was wondering if the culprit might be either really low humidity, large fluctuations in humidty, or a combination of both. This might be why it is more common now that the colder, dryer months are coming around. Could dry air and rapid plant transpiration do this? What are ya'lls thoughts on this?

 

[FLoJo]

woops heres the pics lol

 

[FLoJo]

well i know for a fact its not air circulation.. i have fans in every corner of the room and on the floor and osc. fans so thats not the issue.. last harvest had about 25 more plants in the same space and this didnt happen.

ive heard of people getting like copper and iron toxicity from rusted metal... anyone know what that looks like? i really dont think this is it but im running out of suggestions

 

[Strains]

on that second pic in post 7 there seems to be two things wrong!? first the spots (brown dead areas) then that black creeping thing on the second and third tip of the seration from the bottom of middle leaf finger(from top of pic) creeping in towards the center, looks like that fungal disease, what is it called mm i have it on the tounge god dammit. (ill return when i remember, i cant remember ill get back to this after some sleep)

good luck with diagnosis.

- Strains

 

[Centrum]

Looks like salt build up.

200ppm flush ( 3X water to the pot size) should clear it up i think your on the right path like you mentioned, 200 ppm for a week might be too long and weak, then you might get a nitrogen Def on top of everything. < --- I misread 200 ppm,once a week. LOL read P.S below
might help, has me similar set up with coco.

Good luck


P.S. Tell him to make sure you flush a lot out if he is feeding them the same as he would regular feeding with 200ppm then its technically not a flush.

 

[FLoJo]

See I just cant think that it is salt buildup. Plants were done this very same way with over 300ppm more on average and never had this problem. not to mention that with running 1500ppms of co2 the demands for nutes are much higher. also there are no burnt tips as you can see except at the bottom which was from when they were smaller... so yea im still at a loss lol but all of your suggestions are appreciated

 

[hazy]

How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients? Daily

I hate that 'form', thanks for putting your answers in color.

It's a bit perplexing. I was wondering if that means you flush daily. Your plants, or did you mean your trays?
If you have given them a good flush, then I would suggest that you up the nutes back to the level that used to work.

Iron and copper and those metals only get taken up too much when your pH is low. Your pH seems to be good, so I go back to feed more.

 

[CovertCrops]

Hey bro sorry to hear of the sick plants. I just got done browsing the guide to sick plants and Your plants look like they are showing a manganese def. Just a thought. Good luck.


*EDIT* Why did my post end up on top?

 

[bterzz]

Once again, my plants are doing the same exact thing but they're about 3-4 weeks farther along then yours. My leaves are to the point they are DIEING off. I hope I make it to the end of harvest w/o a bunch of ugly looking buds.

Here are mine.

 

[FLoJo]

jiggy i dont really think its a fungus..at least i hope you are wrong LOL ive looked at it up close (microscope) and its just necrotic, wheras when looking at bud rot or something of the sort you can actually see the spores and whatnot.

hazy, i have been thinking over it and i think that you are right... because today another one of my mothers just started showing signs, and now i am seeing some yellowing at the bottom indicative of a N. def.

with these plants being in a healthy co2 environment, it wouldnt make much sense to drop the nute ppms down to the levels they have been at. I flushed them with straight RO today to completely saturate the medium, and tomorrow am going to feed them with a strong dose about 1000ppms and see how they respond.

and to your other question, i have a seperate brute trashcan as a res in my bathroom which i feed all of the plants from, so it gets emptied out daily with feedings and filled back up over night. the trays and pots i clean at the end of each grow.

bterzz.. that does look pretty bad, but i dont think you will have a problem getting to harvest if you are 3/4 of the way done.. im only half way done, and i know im still going to have a great harvest, im just a perfectionist as far as my ladies are concerned. yours does look a little more fungusish.. do you have access to a high powered microscope?

 

[D.I.trY]

i reckon itsa case of coco behaving baldy - many years since i grew with coco however. AS i understand it its notorious for locking out elements (potassium?). This is the reason there are coco specific nutes made by canna for use with their coco. Not so sure how other brands of coco nutes will perform with canna's coco. Canna also state there is a maximum amount of times you can re-use their coco - to the best of my memory.

 

[Flyguyd]

I would flush your medium and system. new batch of nutes. .02

 

[mr cheese]

im running ak right now and had sme problem, the problem is their heavy feeders, uped my nutes and problem solved, i tried the lower ec like urself and it just got worse, soon as i upped ec green lush growth returned... hope this helps....mrc

 

[bigjay]

how do the roots look?

 

[ToughGirl]

Jiggywhompus nailed it. It's a fungus. It was a bad year for it. Low temps and high humidity made it bad for all kinds of crops, especially tomatoes. Check the underside of the damaged leaf, is it ok? Usually a fungus effects the tops of the leaf only until it dies. So if the top is spotted, and the under side is good, it's not a deficiency... It's a fungus. Not that big of a deal.

Spray the ones that have it with a fungicide (they sell all kinds for plants at Lowes or whatever), and clean the rooms out with bleach water before you start your next batch.