I need a good simple soil mix

[Bretonston]

Hey WJ,

Hey. I wouldn't listen to your "nutrient guy", neither of those are good AM fungi products. First off, those are two different sets of organisms. Tarantula is all bacteria, not AM fungi (note AN misspelled of "actinomycetes", it should be "actinobacteria"). PLEASE NOTE: AN Tarantula is basically a copy of EM (Effective Microorganisms), without LAB and yeast, and most EM has no actinobacteria. I would HIGHLY suggest you purchase SCD-World "EM Plus", and ferment (aka "extend") the EM into AEM (Activated Effective Microorganisms).

Out of the two you should get much more benefits from Tarantula, I suggest it over Myco Madness all day long. Although, (quality) ACT (Aerated Compost Tea) and AEM applications are FAR superior to any freeze dried "off the self" product I have ever seen or heard about.

Now back to AM fungi: "Myco Maddness" contains Trichoderma spp. which can/will 'eat' the AM fungi spores/mycelium before the AM fungi can become mycorrhizal. I suggest against using AM fungi with cannabis, unless low P is used, or possibly higher quantities of (for example) "collodial phosphate" because most P is sequestered. I would not pin any hopes on AM fungi, unless you apply very little P or the P is sequestered like collodial phosphate. You see, even lowish levels (~20 ppm) of bio-available P will hinder AM fingi, and higher levels (~32 ppm) will stop AM fungi in its tracks.

If your going to use AM fungi try to find it without Trichoderma spp., a good brand is "Chappy's Power Organics; Root Booster". Its pretty stupid that nearly all the commercial AM fungi products have Trichoderma spp., the producers are clueless, or posers...in my opinion.

Check out the thread " mycorrhizae with organics" for greater detail...

HTH

my brain hurts

 

[ganja din]

Really? You gotta get out more . Simple answer: yes, use tarantula with organics, but no, flavour will not be direclty affected. You should read my post till it makes sense, good info in there . HTH

 

[maryjohn]

WTF is colloidal phosphate? A colloidal mixture is a kind of mixture that has some properties of solution (like smoke). So does this just mean non soluble phosphate that stays in suspension? Might a "sequestered" (wrong word IMO as it requires indirect object and subject) form of dry P be just as good?

 

[Bretonston]

Hey Bretonston,

Please see my above post to WJ, its also for you. And no, AN Tarantula will not increase the flavor of cannabis, at least not directly. The same goes for any product which claims to increase cannabis flavor, including molasses, none will directly affect the flavor of cannabis...its all lies and hype to separate you from your money.

HTH

thanks ganja....ive been growing for a few yrs but i never got so in depth about soil and nutes im learning as fast as i can i think ive learn more in 6 months here then 5 yrs of doing it wrong....advice from friends and high times

 

[Weird Jimmy]

Hey WJ,

Hey. I wouldn't listen to your "nutrient guy", neither of those are good AM fungi products. First off, those are two different sets of organisms. Tarantula is all bacteria, not AM fungi (note AN misspelled of "actinomycetes", it should be "actinobacteria"). PLEASE NOTE: AN Tarantula is basically a copy of EM (Effective Microorganisms), without LAB and yeast, and most EM has no actinobacteria. I would HIGHLY suggest you purchase SCD-World "EM Plus", and ferment (aka "extend") the EM into AEM (Activated Effective Microorganisms).

Out of the two you should get much more benefits from Tarantula, I suggest it over Myco Madness all day long. Although, (quality) ACT (Aerated Compost Tea) and AEM applications are FAR superior to any freeze dried "off the self" product I have ever seen or heard about.

Now back to AM fungi: "Myco Maddness" contains Trichoderma spp. which can/will 'eat' the AM fungi spores/mycelium before the AM fungi can become mycorrhizal. I suggest against using AM fungi with cannabis, unless low P is used, or possibly higher quantities of (for example) "collodial phosphate" because most P is sequestered. I would not pin any hopes on AM fungi, unless you apply very little P or the P is sequestered like collodial phosphate. You see, even lowish levels (~20 ppm) of bio-available P will hinder AM fingi, and higher levels (~32 ppm) will stop AM fungi in its tracks.

If your going to use AM fungi try to find it without Trichoderma spp., a good brand is "Chappy's Power Organics; Root Booster". Its pretty stupid that nearly all the commercial AM fungi products have Trichoderma spp., the producers are clueless, or posers...in my opinion.

Check out the thread " mycorrhizae with organics" for greater detail...

HTH

Yeah, now that I think of it, he was comparing the myco to the piranha not the tarantula.

I will definitely try that Chappy's you're talking about though. I wish I would've known that before I bought the myco.

Thanks for the knowledge.

 

[maryjohn]

You just gotta stay out of the hydro store. They are banking on your ignorance (it's hard to make a profit from honest garden supply businesses) and will work to increase it.

 

[ganja din]

Hey bro,

Its a 'better' source of P, than soft rock phosphate for example. It is clay particles surrounded by natural phosphate. It has about 20% total P, of which 2-3% is immediately available to plant/microbes as bio-fertilizer (aka inorganic element).

An important fact is the Luekbe family as isolated at least 3,600 different bacterial enzymes from common bacterial from a soil food web. The effects of those enzymes are not all known, but its known at least some minerilize rock powders. Fungi ezymes and metabolites also minerilize rock powder.

See this:

"Alternative Soil Amendments"
By Preston Sullivan
NCAT Agriculture Specialist
©2001 NCAT
ATTRA Publication #IP054
http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/altsoilamend.html

Rock And Mineral Powders

Phosphate sources

There are a number of alternative phosphate sources on the market, but it can be difficult for growers to determine which is the most appropriate for their operation. Much of the difficulty stems from confusion about the difference between "total" and "available" phosphate. Chemical phosphate fertilizer is sold on the basis of available phosphate expressed as P2O5. In fact, "available phosphate" is the only allowable claim for fertilizer value.

Available phosphate designations are determined by measuring the amount of phosphate that dissolves in a weak citric acid solution believed to imitate conditions near plant roots. This test provides a standard means of comparing different phosphate sources. Unconventional phosphates, because of their slow release, are often promoted on the basis of total phosphate content. Neither available nor total phosphate analyses give a particularly accurate picture of how different phosphate materials will perform in natural systems, hence the importance of developing good powers of observation through on-farm experimentation. A general understanding of the principal phosphate products, however, will give some indication of how they are likely to act in different circumstances. Of particular importance is soil pH; phosphates will be released more quickly in moderately acid soils than in neutral or alkaline soils.

Colloidal phosphate consists of clay particles surrounded by natural phosphate. Total phosphate is around 20% and "available" phosphate about 2-3%. An efficient use of colloidal phosphate is to add it directly to livestock manure in the barn or lot, where the manure acids dissolve much of the total phosphate and the phosphate stabilizes the nitrogen in the manure. Many of the same advantages can be had by adding 20-50 pounds of colloidal phosphate to one ton (two cubic yards) of manure when composting. The ATTRA publication Farm-scale Composting Resource List directs the reader to many useful resources on composting. When direct land application of rock phosphate is the only possibility, spreading rates between 500 and 2,000 pounds per acre are appropriate, depending on phosphorus status, soil acidity, and finances.

Rock phosphates are usually derived from ancient marine deposits. They have a different composition than collodial phosphate, generally making them less available. Total phosphate is around 30% and available phosphate 1-2%. They are best used in the same manner as colloidal phosphate, and it is worth paying for several tests to determine how effectively this phosphate moves into manure and soil. It may or may not be a better buy than colloidal, depending greatly on conditions and circumstances.

Hard-rock phosphates are usually derived from igneous volcanic deposits and consist almost totally of the mineral apatite. Although apatite contains about 40% total phosphate, because of the mineral's composition, this phosphate is largely unavailable. In most circumstances it is not a good buy, but in some situations is the ideal product; again, trial and observation are the keys to a wise purchase.

Bone meal is so well known, especially in horticulture, that it can hardly be considered an alternative product. Typically it contains about 27% total phosphate, and nearly all of that is available. There is a great deal of confusion about the phosphate content of bone meal because much of it is sold as a feed additive. In the feed industry, phosphorus is expressed on the label as elemental phosphorus, while in the fertilizer industry it is expressed as phosphate. Phosphate gives a much bigger number (2.3 times as big) for the same actual phosphorus content. Twelve percent phosphorus is the same as 27% phosphate, and bone meal is sold under either of those (or similar) numbers; it's the same good, but expensive, product in either case.

A by-product of the smelting industry, basic slag may, if finely ground, be a source of phosphorus and minor elements. Use of basic slag in organic production is restricted.

Potassium from rock and mineral powders

Alternative potash (potassium) sources are similar to alternative phosphates in that there are a variety of sources, with differing availability and fertility value. As with phosphate, there is a difference between available potash and total potash; similarly, there is a difference between pure potassium and potash, with the potash number being 1.2 times higher than potassium for the same amount of nutrient.

Two sources of potash, potassium sulfate and potassium magnesium sulfate (langbeinite), are commonly enough used in conventional agriculture that they can hardly be considered alternative, save for the fact that both are regularly used in certified organic agriculture. There are two forms of potassium sulfate on the market. One is derived by reacting sulfuric acid with potassium chloride. It is a good fertilizer, but not acceptable in certified organic production. Natural potassium sulfate, from Great Salt Lake, is extracted by a differential evaporation process lasting three years. It can be used in organic farming. Langbeinite goes from mine to field with minimal processing. Sulpomag® and K-Mag® are two brand names for langbeinite.

The salt content and solubility of potassium-bearing sulfates dictate well-considered use, but their high potash content (22% for langbeinite and 50% for potassium sulfate) does allow for good plant response from relatively modest application rates. Although soluble salts, these products are considerably less salty and less soluble than either kainite (a mixture of potassium sulfates and common salt) or muriate of potash, the most common conventional potassium fertilizer.

Granite dust is often sold as a "slowly available" potash source for organic production. Total potash contents in granite dust typically vary from 1 to 5%, depending on overall mineral composition of the rock, but granite is mostly feldspar, a mineral with low solubility. Therefore, little potash fertility is derived from this material.

Another source of slowly available potash, popular in alternative agriculture, is the clay-type mineral, glauconite, commonly sold as greensand. Total potash content of greensand is around 7%, all of which is deeply locked into the mineral and only slowly available. Greensand is also said to have desirable effects on soil structure. Its high price, however, limits its use solely to high-value horticultural applications.

Feldspar is one of the major potassium-bearing minerals of granite. Feldspar powder is fairly easily obtained through the ceramics trade. Unfortunately, most feldspar potash is as tightly bound within its mineral structure as is the potash in greensand. Unless particular circumstances provide a clear indication that feldspar is the most appropriate source of potash, it is proabably not cost-effective.

Certain micas, particularly biotite (black mica), contain several percent total potash, which, because of mica's physical structure (quite different than feldspar or glauconite), is relatively available in microbially active environments. If pure biotite can be obtained at a reasonable price, it may be cost-effective and useful.

A by-product of the cement industry, kiln dust can be an affordable limestone substitute and potash (about 6% soluble) source in areas where it is available. Some cement kilns are fired using assorted industrial wastes, sometimes including hazardous wastes. Dust from these kilns may itself be a hazardous product, and in several states is legally treated as such. Sources should be verified carefully, and state regulations checked. To date, the product is sold only in bulk. It is generally prohibited in certified organic production.

Secondary and minor nutrients from rock powders

A number of other rock dusts and powders are occasionally available in various parts of the country; sometimes the results from local trials are reported in national or international publications, but it is important to remember that what applies in one region may not be pertinent in another. Additionally, when dealing with natural materials like rock, there is very little product consistency from one batch to another; results from one trial may not be transferable to other situations.

Basalt dust, if available at a reasonable cost, can provide a wide range of trace minerals to agricultural systems over a period of several years; as with most rock powders, transportation costs are a major factor in determining cost-effectiveness. Most of the rich volcanic soils of the world are derived from basalt, which gives some indication of basalt's agronomic value, and even when too expensive for land application, basalt dust can benefit farm systems when mixed with manure in the composting process.

Any rock, of course, can be ground into powder, if the price is right. Various people have proposed additions to the soil of assorted rock dusts, or even powdered gravel. One rationale for this is the paramagnetic property that some rock minerals add to the soil—a factor believed to be associated with high fertility. ATTRA has additional information on paramagnetism in soils for those interested.

Zeolites

Zeolites are mined alumino-silicate materials, containing only insignificant levels of plant nutrients. Their use in crop production stems primarily from high nutrient-exchange capacities, which allow them to absorb and release plant nutrients and moisture without any change in the nature of the zeolite. This action results from the mineral's porous-but-stable chemical structure.

Zeolites enhance the performance of fertilizers by making them resistant to leaching, immobilization, and gaseous losses. They are of particular use in reducing leaching in sandy soils. In one study, 4 to 8 tons of zeolite per acre was applied (1). Yield increases were reported for wheat (14%), eggplant (19-55%), carrots (63%), and apples (13-38%). Zeolites are widely used in eastern European and Japanese agriculture, but their use in the U.S. at this time is very limited.

Later