The Official MMA Discussion

[Texicannibus]

I thought it was a great card and looking forward to the free fight on spike next month. I was very impressed with Shogun but I think to some degree Rogan was really talking him up. Alot of times it was a fairly equal exchange but all they was talking about was shogun. I typically watch the fight 2-3 times and Ive only watched it the once so I might change my mind but last night seemed like a partisan announcement job for atleast the first 3 rounds. I did think Shogun could have got the decision I just didnt think it was as onesided as it was announced.

 

[XAndrewX]

OK so i was there last night at the Staples Center, and ill add, i went there hoping for a Machida victory..

Anthony Johnson defeated Yoshiyuki Yoshida via TKO at 0:41 of Round 1-- All i have to say is .. DAMN Yoshida needs to learn to take a punch.


Joe Stevenson defeated Spencer Fisher via submission (strikes) at 4:03 of Round 2-- Fuck yeah Joe daddy!!! he went in there and handled business like we all thought.


Gleison Tibau defeated Josh Neer via unanimous decision (scores of 30-27,30-27,29-28)-- One of the most boring fights of the night unfortunately.. Tibau just kept taking him down over n over.. not really doing any damage and josh gassed out in end of round 1 i think.


Cain Velasquez defeated Ben Rothwell via TKO (strikes) at 0:58 of Round 2 -- Ben, welcome to the UFC hahaa, he got completely dominated in every aspect, i thought it was done in round 1 but they let it go on to the next round and he ended up getting pissed cause he felt it shouldn't have been stopped when he clearly was not defending himself and was was getting thrown around like a 6"5 260 pound rag doll..


Lyoto Machida (c) vs. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua - MAIN EVENT



after closely watching all 5 rounds i was thinking , my god machida wtf! and i really was thinking his undefeated steak had finally come to an end.

then the decision...
all the judges scored it 48-47.. Machida victorious.
Now when i left there i was unsure what to really think about what i had just saw.. it was a even match up all the way through but i'm not quite sure that machida deserved the win.


Anyone else go last night??
Also i want to hear some more views on this controversial fight.

 

[NateDizz]

Yeah Rogan was all about Shogun last night, even Goldy mentioned it. hah. I'd love to know how many times he commented on him compared to his mentioning of Machida. It was a close fight but I think Rua should have gotten the unanimous nod. He took the last two rounds for sure and the first three rounds were very close. All three rounds could have went either way but I see it as a stretch to give Machida all three. I give Rua the first and the third. 49-46 Rua

 

[movingtocally]

FWIW(probably little) I'm done with this sport. At least in the way it is now. The fighters seem to half ass it half the time. frankly a lot of them aren't very talented at what they do(just tough). The buildup seems to overwhelm most of these guys and they just can't perform at high levels when the lights are put on them.

I know some MMA guys will couch 15 minutes of shadow boxing with 5 leg kicks as "nuance" and "mental war" etc., but I don't think it is. How anybody could think that UFC 104 was even remotely entertaining is beyond me. Just bad fight after bad fight.

And, most importantly, we learned that gambling and fighting just don't mix.

 

[Texicannibus]

Hmm watch the same fight as me?

 

[daddy fingaz]

Just managed to watch the Machida - Rua fight and Rua should be the champion.

UFC scoring (and mma as a whole) i think leaves a lot to be desired as previous posters have mentioned above and i admittedly dont fully understand it myself, this fight just left me even more bemused.

Rua was defenatly the aggressor, pressuring and moving forward all the time,controlling the ring and he did land the cleaner and heavier shots imo, although for a muay thai trained fighter i was a little dissapointed with his clinch and knees .. he could/should of dominated machida more than he did there!

i gave 5 rounds to rua.

 

[Guyute54]

Brocks out for 106 now they have replaced with Koscheck vs Johnson. Wonder if Johnson will make weight this time? But hardley the replacement I was looking for. The free UFC 105 card looks better than the 106 card.

 

[Texicannibus]

Just managed to watch the Machida - Rua fight and Rua should be the champion.

UFC scoring (and mma as a whole) i think leaves a lot to be desired as previous posters have mentioned above and i admittedly dont fully understand it myself, this fight just left me even more bemused.

Rua was defenatly the aggressor, pressuring and moving forward all the time,controlling the ring and he did land the cleaner and heavier shots imo, although for a muay thai trained fighter i was a little dissapointed with his clinch and knees .. he could/should of dominated machida more than he did there!

i gave 5 rounds to rua.

Some judges score attempts to end the fight very high. I believe thats the only reasonable explanation for the fight results. Machida was throwing alot more head punches that could have ended the fight. While I think that Rua likely won it was a very close match and definately didnt think he won all 5 rounds. The rounds I seen that may have gone to Machida was 1 2 and 4 but only if your judging on fight ending techniques.

 

[johnurse]

i was realy hoping meat head would go home last night maybe take care of that shoulder lol, the first round started ok but the second round both fighters were gassed real bad, they should take some tips from nick diaz just peppering them wearing them down, then again his cardio is top notch where these guys last night were not, looking forward to seeing big baby fight

 

[Texicannibus]

I even thought the conditioning looked bad in the first round. Thought Dana was making a big deal out of a pretty insignifigant fight. Im looking forward to seeing Marcus myself

 

[johnurse]

i agree, the conditioning was horrible, but they were throwing some mean leather, they need to learn to pace themselfs IMO

 

[daddy fingaz]

Some judges score attempts to end the fight very high. I believe thats the only reasonable explanation for the fight results. Machida was throwing alot more head punches that could have ended the fight. While I think that Rua likely won it was a very close match and definately didnt think he won all 5 rounds. The rounds I seen that may have gone to Machida was 1 2 and 4 but only if your judging on fight ending techniques.

mate that reasoning for the judges decision is all wrong , the big rib kicks Rua was throwing had as much, if not more chance of stopping the fight than Machida's punching, which i think your over rating anyway, infact Rua's lowkicks which machida couldnt block properly, came closer to stopping the fight and each one that landed was hurting and slowing machida.

you say 'scoring on fight ending techniques' ok well i scored the fight under Muay thai rules(under which i have trained and fought for several years now) which as the fight was all stand up, wasnt hard.

Muay thai scoring is based predominantly around 'effect' of shots rather than 'quantity' as in some scoring systems ie shots thrown with correct technique that connect with the opponent and show effect ...in other words techniques likley to stop an opponent. It also scores for things such as control of the ring, aggression etc. anyway i know it was mma not muay thai, but scored on that basis Rua battered machida, machida getting the decision was a joke and wont help ufc credibility, unfortunetley bad decisions are to common and bring down all ring sports!!

anyway peace

 

[G. Sensi]

Fingaz you're absolutely correct... Rua was robbed! clear as day...

They gave it to Machida because of the bullshit 'to be the Champ, you have to BEAT the Champ" ruling, which all of a sudden came into affect... If the UFC is gonna stand by this ruling, then they need to give the belt back to Rampage, because Forrest did not BEAT Rampage either...

I took up MT since the summer (love it!) and you're right, his Clinch and Knees werent too good or clean, but I think its cause he didnt want to get too close to Machida for too long and end up gettin taken down... Machida is a BJJ Black belt... and has studied Sumo... so if Rua had closed the distance, he would have definately been in trouble on the ground...

I gave Rd 3 to Machida... the first time I saw it... just because I thought that little flurry he had in that round landed... but after watching it again, most of those punches glanced off or missed Rua all together, and we can clearly see that Rua's right hand was the hardest punch in that exchange...

I went into this fight a HUGE Machida fan... but MT is without question, THE MOST EFFECTIVE fighting system in the world... and Rua proved it (again)... Machida was completely rendered offenssless bc of those Body and Leg kicks... look how often he had to switch from Southpaw back to regular and flip flop back and forth... To protect his ribs and legs...

I could maybe give Machida 2 rounds...big MAYBE...He may have taken more chances.... I can even admit that Machida was not BEATEN (as in beaten senseless)... I can even admit that Rua should have done a little more to finish the fight, especially the last round... But using the same logic that Machida did not out and out LOOSE the fight, there is absolutely NO WAY you can say he BEAT Rua and WON the fight...

Plus, EVERY FIGHT STATISTIC CLEARLY SHOWS RUA WINNG BY A LARGE MARGIN!! No way those 3 judges can compete with everyone that saw that fight!! Just before the winner was announced, ESPN had already written on their website that Rua is the new Champ... they had to take it down and correct it once the winner was announced... LOL!!

If Vera can keep away from Randy next month, and utilize his SICK MT training, he will end Randy's carreer... But I think Randy's just gonna wrestle him and lay on him for 3 rounds...
I love Randy, but I will always put my money on the MT practisioner...

**Could I make one small request of this Thread and ask you guys to put 'Spoiler alert' or something in the titles of your posts like we did in the other thread... Especially for TUF... the UK airs TUF on saturdays, so we're a few days behind, and now the fights been spoiled, atleast for me... just askin...

Blessings

 

[Texicannibus]

MT is a awesome skill set but I dont think there is any one single system that is most effective. If you are fighting a wrestler I believe jiujitsu is more helpful than muai thai. I dont claim to know what the judges was thinking but Ill stick with my guess.

Should be interesting to see wrestler vs muai thai especially one as experienced as Randy. Vera is a dangerous dude though no doubt one of the most impressive strikers I have seen in the UFC.

Far as the conditioning on the TUF. I think that Rampage and his coaches are definately letting there fighters down. That guy clearly said he was gonna throw every punch with everything he had. Rampage knows that will = early gas out and didnt tell the guy to focus on speed and accuracy till he has timing and range down. Then start loading up on the power punches.

 

[daddy fingaz]

MT is a awesome skill set but I dont think there is any one single system that is most effective. If you are fighting a wrestler I believe jiujitsu is more helpful than muai thai. I dont claim to know what the judges was thinking but Ill stick with my guess.

of course mate, stand up Mt will win, on the ground bjj or wrestling will win of course it is mixed martial arts because you will need mixed skill sets.

i was using muay thai scoring system as u mentioned machida was landing power shots and as the fight was all stand up it seemed the most appropriate scoring system to show this point and that under MT rules Rua would defo have won, and should have also under mma rules.

Please look at both fighters ko records and they speak for themselves Rua is the one with all the power.

lets see what the rematch brings!?!

peace.

 

[G. Sensi]

From Sherdog

‘Shogun’ Unleashes Disappointment at Judges
Friday, October 30, 2009

The fact that two Brazilians are involved in public dispute regarding the UFC light heavyweight championship has attracted the attention of the media in their homeland.

The most popular newspaper in Parana, Gazeta do Povo, published a long interview this week in which former Chute Boxe Academy standout, Mauricio “Shogun” Rua, unleashed his disappointment at the judges decision in wake of his controversial loss to Lyoto Machida at UFC 104 on Oct. 24 in Los Angeles.

The report attempted to outline the criterion by which judges Nelson Hamilton, Cecil Peoples and Marcos Rosales scored the bout, noting that their decision motivated heated discussion in the mixed martial arts community regarding judging in the sport.

“I got really sad with that result but happy by the impact,” Rua said. “I train hard, and every round, my corner told me to be calm because I was winning. Once I was winning, I decided to not expose myself and enter into Lyoto’s game. If I got more aggressive, I would have entered into Lyoto’s game and taken unnecessary risks, just like all his previous opponents did. I used the right tactics and I will probably do the same in the rematch.”

Rua, who won the 2005 Pride Fighting Championships middleweight grand prix, discussed the disappointment he felt when the decision was read.

“When the fight was over, I talked with many people, including [UFC President] Dana White. Everybody said I won, except the three judges, but they’d rather give the win to Lyoto,” Rua said. “It’s so bad to lose a battle like that for interest of other people.”

Rua also addressed a statement Peoples made in which the judge claimed he was not aggressive enough to win.

“I was not aggressive enough? You just have to look at my face and his face after the fight,” Rua said. “He didn’t kick me one single time. I just got some knee butts. He has a broken rib, a deep cut in his mouth and could not even walk after the fight. I hit him twice as much, but the UFC judges analyzed some different aspects that I don’t really understand. I’m very upset. Actually, I cannot consider my last fight a loss.”

Rua laid no blame at Machida’s feet, reaffirming his admiration for the champion.

“He is a very nice guy, and I respect him a lot,” he said. “He doesn’t have any fault in what happened -- only the judges who saw a different fight from everybody.”


Copyright © 2009, Sherdog.com - All rights reserved.
Friday, October 30, 2009

....

 

[Texicannibus]

of course mate, stand up Mt will win, on the ground bjj or wrestling will win of course it is mixed martial arts because you will need mixed skill sets.

i was using muay thai scoring system as u mentioned machida was landing power shots and as the fight was all stand up it seemed the most appropriate scoring system to show this point and that under MT rules Rua would defo have won, and should have also under mma rules.

Please look at both fighters ko records and they speak for themselves Rua is the one with all the power.

lets see what the rematch brings!?!

peace.

Aye really looking forward to see how Machida changes his gameplan (wich I think is always the same). Its obvious that Shogun had his number and hes going to need to look outside the box. Quite possibly try to get the fight to the ground with some of his tricky trips. I agree far as stand up goes nothing really beats MT it covers all the bases clinch, range and power. Far as records its not until recently machida has gone for knock outs and I dont think he has anywhere near the fight experience of Shogun but I do agree that Shoguns got more power. I guess I was disappointed that Shogun didnt go for some KO shots before the last round. I watched the fight a couple times prolly will watch it atleast once more gotta love DVRs. I still think it was alot closer than broadcast or alot of people give it credit for. Each time I watch it though I lean more towards Rua having won.

 

[Texicannibus]

From Sherdog....

Gotta love good sportsmanship my admiration for Shogun grows constantly and hes absolutely right its not Machida's fault. By what Peoples said there I have to assume that he was talking (agression) and I dont agree. It seems apparent he doesnt know how to judge properly as aggression should be mostly gauged by shots landed. Simply walking foward and eating shots doesnt = aggression.

 

[daddy fingaz]

Gotta love good sportsmanship my admiration for Shogun grows constantly and hes absolutely right its not Machida's fault. By what Peoples said there I have to assume that he was talking (agression) and I dont agree. It seems apparent he doesnt know how to judge properly as aggression should be mostly gauged by shots landed. Simply walking foward and eating shots doesnt = aggression.

Rua was respectful towards Machida in his comments, where as Machida was quite arrogant and direspectful in his i felt.

Rua was walking forward, being offensive, this is aggression. yes shots landed, meaningful shots always count.
Yes Rua did take shots and Machida did counter well at times, but Rua landed the more meaningful shots and more of them.

Dana and pretty much every fighter except Silva said Shogun won.

The rematch will be interesting, i wonder whether who will be happy to stand and trade or take it to the ground...this might say something about who really won this 1st fight!?!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

My money was on Rua, one of my favorite fighters. This isn't the first time the champ has retained the belt in a close fight. I don't envy the judges who come up with a score like that. If it had at least been a split decision we wouldn't be so surprised. It's hard to get 3 people in 10 to say Machida won but the three judges differ. What happens from here, compare strikes landed totals?