Can you get a male from a selfed female?
- Thread starter 3dDream
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i got a male from SSH x OGKA,,,,they were fems!!..,,,,,,,,,,,,,the pistles and the PolenClusters grew on the same Flowers,,,,,,,everyone i ask about this says my FemMale is an EXTREEM HERMI!...
the possibilitys i have thought of are ,,,,1) Autosome sexcontrole,,,,,,,or,,,,,,,,or maybe its an XXY.........
i have no idea,,,,,,,ive been trying to solve this puzzle for ages
the possibilitys i have thought of are ,,,,1) Autosome sexcontrole,,,,,,,or,,,,,,,,or maybe its an XXY.........
i have no idea,,,,,,,ive been trying to solve this puzzle for ages
oh,,,,an im still not 100% its ever grown pistles,,,,,,when i look at a plant in full blown flower all i can see is polen sacks,,,
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LolaGal
Female plants have XX genes. Male pollen is divided up between X and Y genes or male/female. When the male pollen combines with the female X gene, you get XX female, and XY male.
Theoretically, a female plant that hermies only has XX genes, so her pollen will only have XX genes.
So no, a male plant is not possible.
Theoretically, a female plant that hermies only has XX genes, so her pollen will only have XX genes.
So no, a male plant is not possible.
the Y chromosone should not be present......but male expreshion is allways possible given the right enviroment......
this is why im trippin with my SSH x OGKA
this is why im trippin with my SSH x OGKA
coctail frank had a male show-up in SSH x OGKA too,,,,,,he crossed it to a female doubble strawberry diesel,,,,,the porgrency he made seemed to be standard M/F seeds,,,,,
In short, no, you can't get males from selfed females. But you can get "hermies" from selfed "hermies".
I think the best way to get fem seeds is with silver nitrate/STS. A plant that goes hermie from light stress may very well be expressing it's "hermie" ability.
It would be much better to have a female that does not respond to light stress, and then treat it to get real fem seeds, than it would be to get "femmed hermie" seeds.
I'd love to find out where you got that info, because everything that I've seen says that's a big leap of faith not supported by any scientific evidence known about cannabis.
I'll say that I do know about sex-linked markers, but have never read anything about outright sex chromosomes.
To say that cannabis sex is determined by an XY system kind of throws sand in the face of the fact that natural "hermies" (monoecious cannabis) have both male and female flowers, but have no evidence of male DNA markers.
Also, if it were XY, why do I ALWAYS get more females than males? Tell me about double fertilization in cannabis... every pollen grain has two sperm...
I think the best way to get fem seeds is with silver nitrate/STS. A plant that goes hermie from light stress may very well be expressing it's "hermie" ability.
It would be much better to have a female that does not respond to light stress, and then treat it to get real fem seeds, than it would be to get "femmed hermie" seeds.
I'd love to find out where you got that info, because everything that I've seen says that's a big leap of faith not supported by any scientific evidence known about cannabis.
I'll say that I do know about sex-linked markers, but have never read anything about outright sex chromosomes.
To say that cannabis sex is determined by an XY system kind of throws sand in the face of the fact that natural "hermies" (monoecious cannabis) have both male and female flowers, but have no evidence of male DNA markers.
Also, if it were XY, why do I ALWAYS get more females than males? Tell me about double fertilization in cannabis... every pollen grain has two sperm...
Well here's the deal, some s1 seeds were made indoors. The s1 seeds were then grown outdoors and a male and 4 females were found. No hermies were found at all. I popped 10 of the offspring from one of the females and found 4 females and 1 male. No hermies were found in my grow either. So either the S1's weren't s1's or something else is up. I should also say that in both of the grows only 1/2 of the seeds popped, but I think that had more to do with the maturity of the seeds.
I should have also made it clear that the original plant hermied very late in flower. Does this change anything? I mean if plants developed this way wouldn't the world be full of hermies and females and very few males?
I should have also made it clear that the original plant hermied very late in flower. Does this change anything? I mean if plants developed this way wouldn't the world be full of hermies and females and very few males?
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LolaGal
I got that info from this crazy unreliable dude who know absolutely nothing about cannabis... Maybe you've heard of him? His name is Ed Rosenthal.
From Marijuana Growers Handbook, page 181.
... When the male plant produces pollen, half of the reproductive cells receive X and half Y. However, when male flowers are artificially induced in female plants, the pollen contains only X chromosomes, the only sex chromosomes the female plant has. All the resulting seeds contain 2 X chromosomes.
Hmmm.... better go read some more books like me and you too can answer questions about breeding cannabis.
Don't mess with me buckaroo, I'll whip out my Ed R. on ya every time.. lol
It is very unlikely (though not impossible) to get a male plant from the seed of a selfed female plant.
When a female plant is selfed, the staminate and pistillate genetics are both sourced from what it very likely to be an inherently female plant. Very likely does not mean certain, however, as sexual expression in marijuana plants is not a cut and dried matter.
While it is true that you are extremely unlikely to get a male plant from a selfed femme, it is wrong to attribute this to a pure XY or XX genetic "cause" in sexual expression in cannabis. Expression of sexuality in marijuana plants is far more complex than that and depends upon many other factors. It is not a simple X/Y mechanism. There are six pairs of genes governing sexuality in cannabis. It's a plant - it's not a mammal and it does not work the same way.
If it so happens that Ed Rosenthal said that (and I'm not so sure that he did) but if he did? Then Ed Rosenthal is wrong. And not just a little bit wrong - but dead wrong.
Which does not change the fact that Ed Rosenthal has forgotten more about growing marijuana than I'll ever know. But that doesn't mean that he necessarily knows the underlying genetic mechanisms behind sexual expression in cannabis, either.
When a female plant is selfed, the staminate and pistillate genetics are both sourced from what it very likely to be an inherently female plant. Very likely does not mean certain, however, as sexual expression in marijuana plants is not a cut and dried matter.
While it is true that you are extremely unlikely to get a male plant from a selfed femme, it is wrong to attribute this to a pure XY or XX genetic "cause" in sexual expression in cannabis. Expression of sexuality in marijuana plants is far more complex than that and depends upon many other factors. It is not a simple X/Y mechanism. There are six pairs of genes governing sexuality in cannabis. It's a plant - it's not a mammal and it does not work the same way.
If it so happens that Ed Rosenthal said that (and I'm not so sure that he did) but if he did? Then Ed Rosenthal is wrong. And not just a little bit wrong - but dead wrong.
Which does not change the fact that Ed Rosenthal has forgotten more about growing marijuana than I'll ever know. But that doesn't mean that he necessarily knows the underlying genetic mechanisms behind sexual expression in cannabis, either.
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LolaGal
Dude, why are you doubting what I say?
I give you the damn title of the book and even the page #.
What do you mean IF he said it...???
Do you really think I got nothing better to do than make up Ed Rosenthal quotes?
Now Ed may be wrong, but don't doubt me when I tell you what page # he sez it on.
I just don't see any point in lying about this or why you would question my veracity.
Because I didn't have the book in front of me and I was not able to read both before and after the passage to see if he had been taken out of context, or if he had provided more detail elsewhere to more fully discuss the subject.
I wasn't suggesting what you said was a misquote, only that it might be incomplete. And I didn't want to bash an expert as authoritative as Ed Rosenthal, without the book open in front of me, without at least leaving a bit of wiggle room when I did it.
Wasn't meant to be an attack on you at all; however, I can see how you may have taken it that way. Not my intention. I apologize for any offence taken.
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LolaGal
This is not the first time that I have entered into a similar thread and have always met with a similar response.
I have many many books on the subject and have read them all over and over. I like Ed best.
I have many many books on the subject and have read them all over and over. I like Ed best.
I have such a hard time imagining a pooh bear and a pair pants fighting (although pooh seems to need pants). I appreciate the help from both of you, but lets not turn my 'lil question into a pissing match. Take it to the PMs or wherever.
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Where did you hear this? Got any scientific literature on the subject?
Oh and Rosy Cheeks and Charles Xavier have a nice discussion here (and I seem to be acting like an ass in the thread for some reason):
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=71995&page=6
So the answer to my question is maybe?
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=71995&page=6
So the answer to my question is maybe?
