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Problem becoming a freakin nightmare! Any ideas?

Tokesome

Member
Hi I`ve had a thread running here in this forum regarding a recurring problem I`ve had with my growing tor the past 3 grows. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=138214

I haven`t been able to get on top of the problem though despite a friend of mine growing the same stock and strain with complete success using, as far as I can see, the same method.

Its so annoying, I`ve been growing for many many years and yet I`m failing somehow here.

I have another small grow tent grow elsewhere from my main 15 plant grow and I`m having the same problems there too.

These 4 plants were the strongest of 36 clones planted into jiffy`s pre soaked in rhizotonic with the aid of a cloning gel. The roots were explosive coming out of the Jiffy`s in every direction, but the leaves had already started to go pale and starting to go yellow between the veins by the time they were rooted well. I potted them into 7inch pots to grow them on until rooted enough to go into 12ltr buckets, but over 3 weeks on and no roots are showing through the holes in the pots. The plants have little vigour to them, they`re pale and sickly looking in the leaf, have purple stems.

They`re being fed Ec10 at ph5.9 along with a dose of "calmax", Cal and Mg supplement thinking this is a Mg deficiency. and they`re being foliar fed twice a day.

The enviroment is good for these plants with temps and humidity well within range with a good air exchange. They`ve under a 400 watt sodium for a couple of weeks now after starting off under a 250watt flouro light.

I`d naturally think that this stock has a weakness in their genetics, but that cant be the case as my friend is growing some from the same batch of 36 clones that these 4 came from and they look absolutely fine, using apparently the same methods and nutes. I`ve had problems with 3 15plant crops of this plant the second of which produced a 19oz yield as opposed to the 60+ I`d expect. My 3rd 15 plant grow is suffering and will be down on yield again but not as bad as it was last time. This is going to be the 2nd attempt at a tent scrog grow, the last one yielded 8oz, but I`d have expected a good deal more than that if I was without these problems. I`m thinking of ditching these if I cant get on top of it soon, if I can get some fresh stock from friends that is. I`d rather get on top of this than have it beat me though.

If anyone can help to shed light on this I`d be very grateful. 3 pics of the young ones from the grow tent, and one of a section of my current 15 plant grow 3-4 weeks from harvest.

Cheers, Tokesome
 

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SoloGro57

Member
I have an idea...

I have an idea...

What kind of tent are you using? The following is from this thread: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=103953&highlight=tent+gassing

"Open Letter from HydroHut to the public

In the last several months, HydroHut has been made aware of and pursued a problem with some of its Huts causing a peculiar plant yellowing leading to plant whitening in certain, sensitive plants. While the issue did not arise in all plants, or all Huts, the existence of a problem was not conducive to our product’s mission.

After several months of extensive testing, false positives and much interaction with the public regarding this matter, we have found an EPA approved compound that isn’t stable in our plastic and that causes extreme stress to certain sensitive plants. In the future, this compound will be removed during manufacture.

Our focus has been directed at how to remove this compound from the plastic and to do so in a way that we could retroactively repair any HydroHut already in the field. As of February 2008, HydroHut will be repairing any affected HydroHuts at its facility. The exact process by which we repair the HydroHuts is extensive and proprietary and it will be carried out by a trainedstaff at our locations.

We fully understand that this situation with our product has adversely affected many clients. For this reason, we are standing behind our product and are offering anyone who has been affected a way to have his/her HydroHut repaired free of charge.

Any client, be they end user or store, can arrange to have his HydroHut shipped back to our Los Angeles facility for processing, free of charge. The HydroHut will then be shipped back to the client free of charge.

All inquiries for HydroHut processing should be directed to hydrohuts@gmail.com with no exceptions."
 

JamieShoes

Father, Carer, Toker, Sharer
Veteran
weird, they look hungry (to my inexperianced eye) but you seem to feeding them as I'd expect (ec1.0)... have you checked your pH pen is calibrated? and is your run off pH looking ok? you might need some of that coco buffer agent (though I've never used it myself)

edit - are u rinsing your coco before use and checking run off ec?

best of luck mate
j
 

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
Might be something in your water, do you use RO? Do you have a whole-house water-softener? Excess sodium could cause all sorts of problems.

Nutrient deficiencies look apparent, have you tried bumping your PPMs on your feedings?
 

habeeb

follow your heart
ICMag Donor
Veteran
well, I suggest soil if coco is giving you problems, but I do organic so coco is another field.. and organic and chemical is completely different once again..

well, lets see, looks like mag, looks like the plants are underfed N, and you have P def .
 

whitedude

New member
Before you bump your ppm's look more into the PH thing, looks like the strain might like a little higher PH maybe closer to 7. and low strenght nutes for a few days. Hope this helps.
 
B

bonecarver_OG

foliar feeding will burn plants if you dont wash of the leafes with plain water regularly. this can be one reason.

also you should pop the nutes up one step - atleast up to 1.2 during veg. also high feeding plants can use a lot of nutes in stretch...

but as allways standard solution to all things like this is;

check run of ec. - this will help to eliminate salt build up as a cause to the damage

also it does at first look calcium/mag related also. yellow edges and between the vaines - classic give off.

peace
 

PoopyTeaBags

State Liscensed Care Giver/Patient, Assistant Trai
Veteran
Before you bump your ppm's look more into the PH thing, looks like the strain might like a little higher PH maybe closer to 7. and low strenght nutes for a few days. Hope this helps.


i dont recommend using anything close to 7 in coco.... maybe im off on this but you should be treating coco like hydro and running 5.4 - 6.2 TOPS....
 
B

bonecarver_OG

coco ph - 5.8 to 6.1 is a nice guide... some water a bit over some a bit under. but i think the best bet is to go as close to the normal ph of coco ( ph 6.0) as possible.
 

*mistress*

Member
Veteran
The roots were explosive coming out of the Jiffy`s in every direction
jiffy pucks may be the issue...

they hold a lot of water. easy for the roots to become water-logged...

hold off watering for 2-3 days, or enough for the top 1-1 1/2 inch (~5 cm) to become dry...

would also prune those lower, old & tired fan leaves... they will most likely not recover. & will stimulate new growth out of terminal nodes...

&/or...

up-root them, trim roots by 1/4, or the visibly damaged portions, & re-pot - minus the jiffy (soggy peat) restrictions... may want to mix in a little perlite, for aeration...

btw, what is your average relative humidity level in that tent?

are there fans going 24/7?

how often do you water & how much water is applied?

gently over plants & extracting water from the canopy micro-climate/room air?

seem like there is too much water somewhere... in root zone, or in atmosphere. otherwise, they would be displaying the full turgor pressure that makes leaves stand up...

if too much external water vapor pressure (high rh/low vpd), plant cant push out moisture... which is now trapped in very moisture retentive jiffy pucks... that are buried in coco...

re-potting w/ perlite (or other aerating media) may help... if nutes &/or ph is not issue, may be environment or root zone...

enjoy your garden!
 

PoopyTeaBags

State Liscensed Care Giver/Patient, Assistant Trai
Veteran
i was also leaning towards over watering.... im not good at diagnoseing other people's probs though...
 
C

ChynaRyder

The interveinal chlorosis I am seeing on the plants in bud looks like an Iron defficiency, and this typically occurs under conditions of low pH. I think you should start with confirming your pH on the budding plants. The little ones look to be overwatered. If you are certain that it is not overwatering, could there be somthing interfering with the gas exchange in the root zone? Is the soil getting appropriate aeration? Pull one of the small plants from the pot and examine the roots. What do they look like, is there a rotten egg smell to the soil? Maybe it is time to change your grow medium...
 

Wait...What?

Active member
Veteran
I smell RO/DI water in the original post

its either the air or the water. thats the common factor [well, that plus the gardener]

dont be afraid to admit that your testing method or test equipment may be flawed for whatever reason. and by that i mean your readings might not be accurate for a myriad of reasons.

if what should be, isnt, then why not?
if i do x and you do x under similar condtions, logically, you and i should get similar results. if not, find out why not! :)
 

Possum

Member
ph 5.9 - that's hydro/totally soiless correct? with dirt i go for a higher pH closer to 6.5 - 6.8.

now, is that the pH going in or coming out - remember to check both. i've had a mixed bag of results with different lots of coco. some is washed, some is not. it makes a difference.

my best results were with the red GH bricks, and botanicare sucked for me. other's results may not sync with this...
 

whitedude

New member
I would not go and raise my ppm's just yet, How long have you been using this coco? is it a reuse? Coco will sometimes lockout nitrogen after some use. also it could very well be a build up problem, I would do a full flush and start over with a ph like indicated by possum. then start of light on the nutes and go from there... hope they get better.
 

slappyjack

Member
I had a similar thing happen during my previous grow.. No variables changed from the previous grow (which was my best ever) and all my plants grew like absolute crap up until I gave up on them 2 weeks into flower. I still don't know what happened, but for my current grow I bought some new coco and new nutes to eliminate the two most important variables. My current grow is again perfect, same clones from the same mother. I guess it was one of those two things, old nutes or old compressed coco.

To date my last grow was the only failure I've had in 10 years. It was scary, and I know exactly how you feel. Try to eliminate some variables and see what happens. When I first saw your pictures I whispered to myself, "Wow, that looks familiar".
 
I had a similar thing happen during my previous grow.. No variables changed from the previous grow (which was my best ever) and all my plants grew like absolute crap up until I gave up on them 2 weeks into flower. I still don't know what happened, but for my current grow I bought some new coco and new nutes to eliminate the two most important variables. My current grow is again perfect, same clones from the same mother. I guess it was one of those two things, old nutes or old compressed coco.

To date my last grow was the only failure I've had in 10 years. It was scary, and I know exactly how you feel. Try to eliminate some variables and see what happens. When I first saw your pictures I whispered to myself, "Wow, that looks familiar".

i dont think there can be such a thing as "old compressed coco." if its compressed, then its pretty much 100% dry and its good for long term storage and stability of the particles. sooooo....i guess you had old nutes??? but then again old nutes? i mean as long as you didnt leave them in direct sunlight or any extreme temps, once again, those should be pretty stable. but hmm who knows....sounds like a frustrating problem you had regardless.
 

slappyjack

Member
i dont think there can be such a thing as "old compressed coco." if its compressed, then its pretty much 100% dry and its good for long term storage and stability of the particles. sooooo....i guess you had old nutes??? but then again old nutes? i mean as long as you didnt leave them in direct sunlight or any extreme temps, once again, those should be pretty stable. but hmm who knows....sounds like a frustrating problem you had regardless.

It doesn't make sense to me either, but reality is reality. I hope that it never happens again. I did notice the clear and opaque liquids in my gallon jugs of CNS started separating as they got older. I always shake before using.

My grows are small enough that these jugs lasted me about 3 years. That's probably pushing the natural life of any product.

I also had a theory that my coco had some mold spores or mildew in it from sitting in the basement, but I never saw anything growing on it. It was BONE dry.

Anyway, everything's cool now so I'm not too worried. :) B'Cuzz coco and the new CNS coco formula is so much better anyway.
 

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