well obviously if your water is that alkaline and you keep flooding the soil it won't work. Are you drinking from this well? what else is in it?
PHuck, All this PH shit is making my head spin
- Thread starter CoonLover
- Start date
well obviously if your water is that alkaline and you keep flooding the soil it won't work. Are you drinking from this well? what else is in it?
How accurate can that 12.5 reading be? Wouldn't that burn people's innards?
G
Guest 88950
where are you getting your ph up/down? you drive to the store to get it.
educate yourself on organics before you you put down those who grow using bone meal, blood meal, kelp meal, ewc, guano. those are the nutes and they are added into the soil and then let cook for 2-4 weeks. perhaps you have tried and failed but that doesnt mean organic growers can not produce quality bud.
you ph your chem nutes to get them into the proper ph range so the plant will uptake the n, p, k, mg, ect. in organics you dont need to ph unless you have terrible h2o b/c the bene fungi and endo ecto mycor feed the plant.
in Organics you feed the soil not the plants. im extremly new to growing but i have done dwc and fully understand that your ph is most likely the cause of deficiency but with organics once you have your soil cooked put your ph/ppm/ec meters away. also your soil is reusable, just put in compost bin to recycle.
one last thing. mother nature invented organics so nute yourself into oblivion. and when your nutes run out, which they will, drive back to the store to buy more while the unskilled organic growers go to their compost bin for more juicy soil ready to grow tasty buds.
peace
SSH
super silver haze -''perhaps you have tried and failed '' why is it you guys always have to insult someone when they try to teach u something, its always, '' im sorry your plants didnt produce '' or '' its too bad your girls didnt get grow well'' . what are u talking about? did u ask me about my girls and their yeild? no u and the others didnt either, my plants always yeild good, from my very first atempt, i think alot of you guys dont have a green thumb or u think growing a weed is hard, bottom line. u adjust the ph period, or u just play that b.s game of ""u feed the soil not the plant'' what are u talking about?? you have it backwards u feed the plant , u gotta check your ph, u should know what your waters ph is, what your run off water is, u should be even if not changeing it(the ph) be taking notes on how at certain phs and what mix u used that produced this ph the plants are affected and in what way. so that u can gain knowledge from a scientific standpoint and begin to make even your organics much more of an exact replicateable sciecne instead of the guessing game alot of you go through, i know there are guys with killer mixes out there like magics mainly coco blend, organic is the way to go, its terrible to smoke metals from chem ferts for your health. i just dont get into the mentality that some of you have that all the nematodes n bacteria in dirt are conspiring together for the benifit of my weed adventure perfect everytime without my intervention. u ph your nutes you save nutes and make them readily availbe even quicker then your little micro disco herd can ever do, and if your not feeding them but water u ph the water so as to not slow down the dance party in your dirt , simple enough?
u also have to know that with the advent of chem fertz world wide agricultrual yeilds went through the roof almost overnight, its not because farmes didnt understand how to mix up shit with more shit either,, in the near future will be(the global food supply) useing nano fertz that go right to the roots with tremendous effeciancy and its just around the corner.. nature made organics i agree but nature is far from efficent or perfect, nature itself is actually extremly wastefull but she doesnt feel guilty about it nor do we becuase its just shit to begin with-
organics rock guys, i defineatly have u guys to learn from in the near future about it this i can admit and i want to thank you for shareing your info with me, didnt mean to break the sacred creed of not having to check the ph of organni grows and i do understand how it isnt everything. i just ran coco 80 percent soil 20, never checked my ph but had cal problems from adding lime first to the mix plus having hard water, plants thrived and pulled harder then i ever have before but really could of used a lowered ph to make the cal more absorbable,, imagine if i had reliefs water, id be totally fucked even if my dirt disco herd was amped up they couldnt have kept up or rather kept it down. what i did learn this run of mine with mostly coco is that i feel guilty about useing so much nutes, and have to ask myself, ''were the hell do they go? in my lungs for one,, so i want to make changes and go more natural, im giving thoughts to a organic run of ph'd urine, blackstrap molasses, seaweed maybe some comfrey tea if i can find it .. i repect u guys, some of you are very talented-
u also have to know that with the advent of chem fertz world wide agricultrual yeilds went through the roof almost overnight, its not because farmes didnt understand how to mix up shit with more shit either,, in the near future will be(the global food supply) useing nano fertz that go right to the roots with tremendous effeciancy and its just around the corner.. nature made organics i agree but nature is far from efficent or perfect, nature itself is actually extremly wastefull but she doesnt feel guilty about it nor do we becuase its just shit to begin with-
organics rock guys, i defineatly have u guys to learn from in the near future about it this i can admit and i want to thank you for shareing your info with me, didnt mean to break the sacred creed of not having to check the ph of organni grows and i do understand how it isnt everything. i just ran coco 80 percent soil 20, never checked my ph but had cal problems from adding lime first to the mix plus having hard water, plants thrived and pulled harder then i ever have before but really could of used a lowered ph to make the cal more absorbable,, imagine if i had reliefs water, id be totally fucked even if my dirt disco herd was amped up they couldnt have kept up or rather kept it down. what i did learn this run of mine with mostly coco is that i feel guilty about useing so much nutes, and have to ask myself, ''were the hell do they go? in my lungs for one,, so i want to make changes and go more natural, im giving thoughts to a organic run of ph'd urine, blackstrap molasses, seaweed maybe some comfrey tea if i can find it .. i repect u guys, some of you are very talented-
Spending millions of dollars to harm our oceans and rivers and damage our health in the name of more and more insipid veggies with fewer benefits does not sound like an efficient use of energy to me.
With the green revolution, we externalized the cost of growing, and put off the bill until later or shifted it from producers to the population at large. that's not progress, and I'd appreciate it if you keep that notion off the organics forum, as it is only going to start fights. Kind of like pointing out that jesus is lord on a visit to a Mosque. In order to discusss here, you start with the notion that organics is the ethical or otherwise preferable choice. you don't come here to decide, and you don't come here to convince organic growers to grow your way and pretend it's oganic.
your ravings are good for all to see just how hard it can be to lose the NPK paradigm, finding thinner and thinner explanations for the outstanding quality and yields possible with organics.
Organics has become a religion at the expense of science. Leviathan said it all. A plant's root cannot tell the difference from a N molecule from cow shit or from CAN-17. If it isn' the perfect molecule, the root will not take it in... period. I have little patience with organics, either MJ or food production. It is a religion akin to man made global warming at the expense of science. Check your PH man !
For at least a couple billion years, soil biology has been forming a web. The microbes in the soil need the carbon the plant can scrub out of the atmosphere, and the plant needs the fertilizers the microbes can trade it. The reason they work together is simple necessity. They need to keep that plant thriving. The better the plant does, the more carbon it can provide them with. Fungus also forms mycellum with the root structure. It's all self interest and sharing balanced into a very neat system.
It's mainly that science was applied to farming that lead to a TEMPORARY increase in production. We're already learning that the increase comes with increased soil depletion.
Today's organics also now has science working with it, and the result is a much more robust approach. Also, inoculates are common now that were not common in the 1950s. Soil microbes from all over the world can be selectively added to fields anywhere. Farmers now have more info on how to keep the micro herd healthy, and how to keep it ideal for their specific plant type. Aerated compost tea is another big change.
That's great you are willing to try it. I just don't think you're listening on the pH issue. Sure insanely high or low pH can kill microbes, but the microbes will feed in pH ranges the plant will not. That's why your old pH absorption charts are useless. They address a plant's ability to obtain nutes directly to the roots in ionic form, nothing else. When you feed your micro herd, they eat across a very wide range of pH (at least 3-9), and in turn they can deliver it to the plant directly to the roots via fungus pathways. This process is very sophisticated, very complicated, and very successful. These microbes have held on for a couple billion years of history, they didn't do that by being bad at what they do. If you learn to trust the herd and not poison it, it will reward you by feeding your plants, adjusting for pH, retaining water, and chelating poisonous materials.
G
Guest 88950
Leviathan,
yes i have tried and failed but my only success was the organic method. at the time i was too ignorant to know that it was organics but in retrospect i have started to understand that for ME organics is the best method.
no doubt that your hydro will out preform organics in growth rate, which means increased yield and thats what we are all after, right.
as for "you guys" being insulting when you are trying to teach organic growers something perhaps you need to learn a new method of teaching. and with all your ranting about ph you stated "never checked my ph but had cal probs". practice what you preace.
and probably why no one asked you about your grow or harvest is its not your thread, make your own.
sorry for the hijack.
peace
SSH
yes i have tried and failed but my only success was the organic method. at the time i was too ignorant to know that it was organics but in retrospect i have started to understand that for ME organics is the best method.
no doubt that your hydro will out preform organics in growth rate, which means increased yield and thats what we are all after, right.
as for "you guys" being insulting when you are trying to teach organic growers something perhaps you need to learn a new method of teaching. and with all your ranting about ph you stated "never checked my ph but had cal probs". practice what you preace.
and probably why no one asked you about your grow or harvest is its not your thread, make your own.
sorry for the hijack.
peace
SSH
checking your ph is organic, thats my advice to coon the starter of this thread and to all, if u dont want to check the ph dont, i really dont care, i luv how u guys will make the most ellaborate guesstimate mixes, maybe even brew that special tea for 12-24 hours, knowing fuck all of whats going on in your mix aside from your imagination but tout pouring a tiny sample of your water or nutes in a ph test kit as so dam much work, oh my god i have to pour water into a cup and drop some test drops in it or use a ph pen? fuck me!!!!! did u guys ever think that maybe considering your probally useing the same water source for all your grows plust the same organic nutes if any that youd know just what to do after testing perhaps only once, as in how much ph up or down u would need.. for each gallon without checking again n again?? u make it seem like so much work, im over it, just be a dreamer, a guesser and know that your micro heard told your teevo just what tv show you wanted taped and so just sit back n relax and enjoy the show.
im not trying to make u guys in hydro, just tellin coon about ph as ive said atleast three times, and personly i dont need religous analogies about the jewish zombie or the moon god religon of mohamed when talking about dirt dude, it just isnt called for, to me there no war over chem vrs organi, you would be surprised how if you open your mind learing both will make u a better grower in the one that suites u best-
u must remeber that the universe puts out about 500 gigatons of co2 a year, we only add about 50 gigatons from industry, true its no good but if we were to go off oil and on corn which is organic for fuel we would be so fucked, u see its the nematodes n bacteria that realease co2 from waste daily, monthly and yearly and very naturally, with all that corn waste wed double the co2 in the air, if u doubt me read james lovelock, his solution to global warming which he says nobody is probally going to do is the burn all the waste from farming in a low oxygen enviroment and make charcoal out of it and bury it deep in the feild were the worms cant get at it to start drawing down co2 in large quantities, it would make a little co2 itself in the process but overaul really help out and make a little bio-diseal as well which the farmer could use. with the lesser yeild of soil grows and the need for electric to power the lights n fan that are powered off oil power plants for less yeild makes me think that your organi actually isnt so efficent in the long run, just a parameter u gotta consider unless your an outside grower even u organi guys are running on chems, sorry but true.
magic u had some good points by the way, thanku for the education and im happy that science or natuarlism is useing theese microbes from all over the world for the worlds soil benefit-
maryjohn i dont like welfare farming as its done today, i agree with your point-
relief
Active member
Very accurate, I live in an agriculture district and it has been tested by both the county and the state. My PH meters give me the exact same results. 12.3 - 12.5. Water has a PPM of 250. It's completely fine to water the plants UNFILTERED as long as the PH is adjusted.
You're thinking of high acid (low ph). Yes, the water is perfectly fine to drink untreated. Its actually good for you to drink high alkaline water as it raises the PH of your body when you've been drinking/eating too much soda, juice or anything high in acid or a diet high in processed foods (every American diet). We're encouraged by our local agriculture department to water livestock straight from the well for this very reason. Milk is super sweet, not bitter which is caused due to high acid well water. Milk straight from the udder taste like a low sugar milkshake, fantastic! Dairy from our region is prized and highly sought after from large ice cream companys. Meat cattle have a MUCH better taste as well. It also helps livestock adsorb nutrients better.
overmyhead
Member
Hey BurnOne, I am really slow on the uptake and still influenced by everything I've heard about ph, my first grow was with Genesis 3 part system (non organic) and I switched to pure blend pro at flower on this one. The plants have all kinds of crazy symptoms but the flowers look ok and only have a couple weeks left for most. There is one that is newer and I really don't want to screw her up because I'd like to reveg her and use her for a mom, so can you just confirm for me that I understand what you're saying. If I'm using organics (pureblend pro, liquid carma, cal mag - which I guess isnt technically organic) I do not need to adjust the ph? I tried adjusting it and within 24 hours of sitting in a bucket it was right back where i started. I am using pro mix bx as a medium but really I just need to get through thsi one grow and I'm switching to all in one soil blends like LC's or I've already started some others in Blazeoneup's recipe - and they look very happy. Thanks and here's a post I just made on another thread - sorry if I sound scattered but I am spinning from all the different advice I've been reading. THanks again to you all.
"Hopefully you or someone else here can help me with this. I have been trying this but am having some issues with ph - 15 ml / gal + 10 ml liquid carma + 5 ml cal mag knocks my ph down to about 4.0 (from 7.5.) I asked the local shop about it and he said that with organics (or mostly organics) you need to mix everything up and let it sit with an airstone going in it for 24 hours and it would buffer itself. Well, It has been 36 hours and no change. So, how do you all deal with ph on this stuff? I don't want to saturate my plants with ph up. And even when I used ph up to adjust it to 6.5, 34 hours later it had drifted back down - so i have to assume that it's going to do that in the soil as well. Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to give."
overmyhead-
The grow medium is where the pH is taken care of. A mix like LC's Mix that is rich in humates and living bacteria is what you MUST have to be successful. You can use all the organic nutes you want and have no success. It all happens in the medium. That's the item of priority.
Burn1
The grow medium is where the pH is taken care of. A mix like LC's Mix that is rich in humates and living bacteria is what you MUST have to be successful. You can use all the organic nutes you want and have no success. It all happens in the medium. That's the item of priority.
Burn1
overmyhead
Member
Burnone, thanks for the quick relpy! I understand that now, but in the mean time, what should I do to make things work in the pro mix, does the liquid karma provide the necessary humates? I am pretty sure that there are some bacteria in there as I've added great white a couple times and molasses to feed the bacteria.
overmyhead
Member
Habeeb, thanks what kind of compost tea would you recommend in week three of flowering - mind you I have never done any compost teas so would there be a simpler recomendation? And what is em-1? I really don't have the cash to buy anything else as I just spent a ton on all this botanicare stuff thinking it was going to really simplify my life LOL.
Edit:
I just looked up em1. I already have added Great White to the soil and read on another thread that someon is using rid - ex. Makes sense, basically the same thing but a lot cheaper.
Edit:
I just looked up em1. I already have added Great White to the soil and read on another thread that someon is using rid - ex. Makes sense, basically the same thing but a lot cheaper.
overmyhead
Member
Burnone, thanks for the quick reply! I understand that now, but in the mean time, what should I do to make things work in the pro mix, does the liquid karma provide the necessary humates? I am pretty sure that there are some bacteria in there as I've added great white a couple times and molasses to feed the bacteria.
You can also mix in some worm castings and molasses. That should be enough humates and bacteria to buffer the pH within the soil. Good luck.Burn1
