Starting the grow again, need some advice

[Deadly Fear]

Hi all! I had a bagseed grow in my closet last year that was pretty successful under a 600w light. I am attempting nearly the same thing this year with some Hashberry but have a few questions.

1. I recently accidentally killed a grow by using MG Organic (not sure which bag, think it was green) for my seedlings which killed them. It seemed to be too hot. I was going to start with regular potting soil this time and then transfer to one of the Fox Farm brands. Does this sound ok or is there a FF I can start them in right away?

2. Last time I had a friend's 600w, this time I have a different friend's 400w but the bulb is old and I am going to replace it. Does this PlusRite 600w look ok? The price is really good, not sure if that reflects on quality or if 1000bulbs is just that cheap. I'm looking to spend around 50, so if that's not good please recommend some alternatives.

I thought I had more questions but I can't think of any, I'll add more as they come. Thanks for the help!

EDIT: Forgot to add that the closet is 5.5 x 3.75 x 5.5

EDIT 2: Here is the light that I have more or less http://www.hydroponicsoutlet.com/Sun-System-2-400W-HPS-p/900512.htm
-May not be the exact one but it's close. Will check tonight to make sure.

 

[Dr Dog]

I have one comment here

You get what you pay for

I buy bulbs in bulk, and still pay 70 ish a bulb

 

[Deadly Fear]

I have one comment here

You get what you pay for

I buy bulbs in bulk, and still pay 70 ish a bulb

How much of a difference does it make in your opinion? I am really trying to save some dough on this so if I can get by with the $30 bulb for one grow I'd be happy.

 

[Dr Dog]

well if you can get one for 30 I would say go for it

But most of teh "cheap" bulbs I have heard about, normally do not last too long

what sized ballast you talking about here, you say 600 then 400

 

[Deadly Fear]

I had a 600w last time, this year is a 400w. Hm, for some reason I was thinking I could just swap out to a 600w bulb in this ballast. Is that not possible?

 

[Dr Dog]

it probably wont fire properly

You need a 400w bulb

Now next question is it a mag or digi ballast, which bulbs can you use, these are questions you need answered

 

[hubcap]

-starting a grow up isnt cheap.
and like already stated, you get what you pay for.


cheap bulbs are going to be exactly that, imo. cheap, weak, and not long lasting. some might stop in and say im "full of it" and "i buy $50 bulbs all the time" blah blah blah......
all theyre, basically saying is: "My grow would have even been BETTER if I bought GOOD equipment."

buy the best bulbs you can afford imo. genetics and lights, imo, are two places you dont want to skimp on...
corners can be cut when buying pots or tools to work with like trimmers and lil shovels and such....
save the pennies there. not on lights.
imo of course.

get the BEST 400W light(s) you can. if need be, $100 will be easy to get back once the grow is complete, if ya get me.

in a nutshell.....if you want average....or mediocre......buy cheap.
you want the best you can get?......spend a lil more up front and youll be MUCH happier, in the long run, imo.
for one, your yields and quality will be better and youll be less likely to hafta replace equipment (aka cheap bulbs) after every grow.........
as opposed to every 2-3-or 4 grows with higher priced, and more durable bulbs. (cost will eventually even out over time, so, there really is no money saved, if youre asking me.)

soil mixes can be a great way to save a lil money, too.
while designer bagged soils like fox farms' ocean forest are great, one could make their own like mixes for lesser money. many detailed threads on "Soil Mixes and Recipes" can be found here. Even the crappy search engine here can help you find those. Just be sure to use "advanced search" and use "thread titles only" otherwise youll get pages upon pages of useless info.

2 places, imo, where you NEVER wanna skimp:
Lights
and
Genetics.

soils can be made or bought for good prices as long as miracle grow is avoided unless absolutely necessary since good soils arent sold everywhere.

........ive rambled enough.......
time for anotha bowl.

-cap

 

[VerdantGreen]

about the soil -normal potting soil is also often too hot for cannabis seedlings.

either use a specific seed and cutting compost or a mix of unfertilised peat and perlite.

 

[oldbootz]

3/6 parts coco 2/6 parts perlite 1/6 parts worm castings - does wonders for seedlings

 

[Deadly Fear]

I would love to make my own using some of those blends but I am limited to a hydro shop about 30 minutes away and Lowe's. I would prefer to use something from Lowe's for convenience. Would my best bet be to get a seed/cutting mix like VerdantGreen suggested?

I am all for making a mix but convenience is a big part for me, plus I do not have the experience of knowing what goes into a good mix and why that is. The best bet for me is buying a premixed bag at either the hydro shop or at Lowe's. Any good suggestions for those places?

Also, thanks for the tips on the lights. I will be buying a much better 400w, hope it is enough for my babies.

 

[fireman]

the 400w will be a little small for that closest since a 400w only covers and area of about 2x2, but if this is what you have it will do just fine.

I would suggest going to the hydro store and buying a bad of Fox Farm Ocean Forest and a small bag of perlite (chunky perlite if you want a big bag sitting around). Just cut your FFOF with the perlite untill it looks like there is about 20-25% perlite to soil.

Some people claim it gives them problems with young seedlings, but I`ve never had this problem and this most likely wont cause you any problems. It will run you about 20-28 a bag.

NEVER PUT ANY BULB THAT ISNT FOR THAT BALLAST IN THE BALLAST.
400 in a 400
600 in a 600
1000 in a 1000

this is how growers start fires and then the news gets to run bullshit retarded as stories about how some stoner was at his grow smoking so much pot he lit the room on fire and killed himself.. Good to see you asking before you acted though it shows smarts.

Keep doin research to prepare yourself for the upcoming journey and ask questons if you cant find the answer already posted

fireman

 

[Deadly Fear]

Thanks for the awesome info fireman! I am looking at a couple hortiluxs from http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/hortilux-400w-super-hps-mogul-base-grow-bulb-p-116.html
http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/hortilux-430w-super-hps-mogul-base-grow-bulb-p-1466.html

From what I've read the 430 should be ok in the 400w ballast, so I might try to get as much bang for my buck as possible. I am going to call up the hydro shop now and see if they have the FF Ocean Forest. Hopefully it won't be too hot for the lil darlins. I have a big ol bag of perlite so I'll just need the soil. Maybe some worm castings too. How long will one bag last me for 10+ seedlings?

EDIT: Good news they have the bigger bags of Ocean Forest for 23.

 

[hubcap]

brotha deadly fear......
-are you looking for soil JUST to start seedlings in, or are you looking for a soil that can take you thru the whole grow....?
-whats your level of expertise? just the one bagseed grow?
-how much money are you allotting for your budget?



heres some general advice to ponder, in addition to what brotha fireman and brotha oldbootz has already offered....




(using only Fox Farm Soil and Perlite......)
it all depends on the size of your pots deadly fear.......
as to how many seedlings/plants one bag of soil can support.
(and how much perlite you cut into your mix, stretching it out)

mixing fox farm ocean forest with perlite.....
on general terms....think 60/40 or 70/30 soil/perlite ratios. ive used these simple ratios with success. and still use this simple mix for some strains to this day.
-it works.
-its simple.
and if the hydro store is only a half hour away, to me, its worth every minute of that trip, as opposed to going 5 minutes down the road to lowes to get miracle grow "organic." trust me on that. an hour round trip is the least one could do for a bountiful harvest. (if only it was that easy for me......im 4 hrs round trip to the nearest GOOD one)

[side note:
hydro shops usually carry Fox Farms stuff.....and ProMix lines...which is a 'soilless' medium(promix). GREAT product, as well. One needs to know the ins and outs of growing a lil bit more than using FFOF tho.....but it comes in bales, and, by volume, is MUCH cheaper than the FF lines.......ProMix HP is a good one, because, i believe, it has added mycorhizzae, but, thats another novel and im tryin to keep it brief and understandable......]


i, too, have seen the pics, and heard the stories about fox farms soil being too hot for seedlings. i cant say, in my experiences, that I agree with these statements. Been using FF for a few years now and, honestly, its my soil of choice. have yet to "burn" seedlings and ive run some pretty sensitive ladies in it. (my guess would be its either water/pH, or amended nute(nutrient), related problems.....but ive never had the problem, so never dealt with it....)
just be sure to use that perlite youve got on hand because FF soils tend to get a lil compact over time, with waterings .....and the perlite will help keep it loose so your roots will have easy access to all the soil.
let it be known ahead of time...FFOF soils tend to have gnats in it. they are merely a nuciance and will not harm your ladies in any way, just be aware, if running inside, that youll see a few of em......again, harmless.
FFOF is a good candidate to reuse, as well, by recharging it with EWC and letting it (the soil) break the organics in it down even more. i dont go more than 2 runs tho. attempts using a "3rd recharge" garnered less than stellar results, for me, but, some do it indefinately. (again, threads on reusing soil abound...)

ok im going dizzy.....any this info helping.....??
any other questions?

-cap



*****EDIT******

IF youre looking for JUST a seedling starter........i like oldbootz offerring. the only real food in it is that is the EWC, which offers Nitrogen to your small seedlings; which is just what they need. coco adds a lil stability for them and the perlite keeps things airy and porous.
in a nutshell...
if your looking for "just a lil soil to start your seedlings" any ol seed starter from lowes'll work. just promise me youll try to steer clear of miracle grow unless absolutely necessary. too many people take that route and things could be soooo much better for them with a lil added time and effort. strictly in my opinion, of course.
but any seed starter from lowes will work just fine to get them off and running. start em in that seed starter from lowes in a seedling tray. but transplant them into something better once they look like theyre healthy and gonna make it....the food stored in their lil seed pod is plenty to get them into about week 2 or 3 of growth....after that they gonna start looking for food from other sources.....(aka the soil and/or foliar feedings)


also...i, too, have used 430W bulbs in 400W ballasts. while im not endorsing or recommending it...i can honestly say i didnt have one problem....no noises....no faster ballast burnout.....no 'freakish added brightness.." etc etc. it worked well. i believe it was a hortilux type, but, cant remember......

hit me/us back if ya got anything else.

 

[Deadly Fear]

Thanks for all the information hubcap. Here's some info for you. My level of expertise is 3 grows started, 2 grows finished. My first one was an apartment grow in a closet about half the size I have now with CFL's. I did not have near enough lights or coverage but I managed to grow some stringy bud. Way too much stress on the ladies that time though.

Second time I was more successful in the closet grow I have now. Myself and a friend went for quantity over quality and did a bagseed grow of about 50+ females under a single 600w HPS. We managed to take in about 5 oz of pretty good bud so we were happy.

Tried with the same setup a few months later and burned the babies up with Miracle Gro soil.

I am on a fixed budget so I am trying to spend as little as possible for the best possible results. If there's something that can be skimped on I will but I don't believe soil or lights are in that category, so that's where most of my money will go. Probably want to spend around $150 including everything. I have most everything good to go from the setup so it shouldn't be too costly.

I hear what you are saying with the FFOF. I have some perlite already so I was thinking a 70/30 mix would be good. For the soil I just want to get the babies off the ground to do alright in the FFOF. From what I've read on here different strains have different uptake characteristics and will react differently to the FFOF. Hashberry seems to be a pretty resistant strain so I may just try it all the way. If they have a small bag of Light Warrior I may just use that.

No matter what I am getting earthworm castings. Can I use those right away for the seedlings for whatever mix I use for them?

 

[hubcap]

thanks for the added info brotha deadly fear.
helps us, help you.

so, youve got a couple "successful" harvests under you belt. thats def a plus. getting a couple of runs in, helps a grower understand the food needs of MJ and it also allows said grower to become proficient in taking care of any deficiencies or problems in the grow. theres no substitute for a first hand grow, imo.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

~$150 isnt too bad of a 400W budget to start with.
my first inclination would be to buy a good, soild 400/430W light for ~$100 and spend $50 on the soil. assuming you already have (non terra cotta)pots....
($25 per bag of FFOF by me...ouch!!)
as stated you already have the perlite on hand so that can stretch the bags of soil out nicely. And with this soil, added amendments, IF needed, will/should be, minimal, unless your ladies are simply nute HOGS........and i mean HOGS. Which some strains, indeed, are.
the most common deficiency I'VE come across with FFOF soils is Cal/Mg def. And a simple foliar application of water/epsom salts does the trick every time. just dont over do it, because, too much runoff into your soil from the leaves can cause minor problems further down the road with pH imbalances; because one rarely remembers to acct for it being present IF they let it build up in the soil........
so just spray the undersides of the leafs gently when lights come on, or whatever fits your schedule, if in vegetative stages.

as far as making your own mix....
making your own mix, is much cheaper, and fine tuned, usually, to a growers liking, but a grower really needs a good understanding on what plant needs over its life cycle.
For example in veg stage MJ loves (N)itrogen
.......and during flower (about 2 or 3 weeks in) they prefer more (P)hosporous and (K)Potassium. So one would want to incorporate these three major elements into said soil mixes. EWC is widely recommended for a plants Nitrogen needs, while people have varying degrees of "teas" or "brews" they use for P and K to include sea bird guanos and the such.
Ive found FFOF provides, for the most part, all of said needed requirements, as does alot of soils out there designed for container/pot (no pun intended) use. ive never had the need to add lime to it, but some people wouldnt use it(FFOF) without it(dolomitic lime).
All organics, over time, become more and more acidic. Thats something to keep in mind, especially, if using a peat based mixture. But that aside, with good monitoring of your water/feed pH these problems can me minimized, and in some cases, nullified. But were staying simple.

EWC are a must have, if you ask ME. great, ready source of N that plants really like in vegetative stages. alot of people use it for top dressings and even in teas and foliar sprays. its, literally, black gold.
seedlings can be started in it, straight up, but, keep in mind, although a plant likes N in veg stages, one, certainly, can overdo it. Easy to recognize as dark green, abnormally dark green leaves. Its not *harmful* per se, but, it takes longer for it to flush out of the plant come finishing time. So you dont want TOO much but you dont want too little. EWC do a good job at making this as ez a possible for a newER grower. the only thing is....youd want to mix/cut it with something. (coco....perlite....perhaps?) because, if used uncut it can get a lil sloppy if even slightly over watered. so it takes a gentle hans when using it. id remove the variable and add perlite since u have it on hand. but, really any 'clean' seedling starter than has no ferts in it already will work just fine from getting started/germ to about week #3 of life. then, as aforementioned, theyll start looking for food.....(thats when EWC and FFOF could come into play if this would help you save a lil dough holding off on buying special mixes for a couple of weeks....?)

from my exp with it (FFOF), its a good all around performer. The Light Warrior(LW) isnt bad either. Ive used 1 bag of each cut with perlite with hreat results as well. I think alot of other people here use that mix, too, so you know any answers to probs you MIGHT have will not be far away.

IF you are looking into making you own soil mixes ID recommend reading up on:
- what MJ needs during VEG and what it needs during flower........(and how to incorporate these into your mix)
- pH (ive found a good working range with MJ & FFOF is 6.2ish to 6.5..strain dependant)
- Deficiencies and how to avoid them by having the right amendments to your mix. There are many GREAT and INFORMATIVE threads in the organics subsection of the "Growers Forums" section. Great reads. And a great sticky involving Def's and how to spot and treat them.



did that long winded answer help at all?

-cap

 

[Deadly Fear]

Yes hubcap, love the information, doing my best sponge impression here. I hear what you're saying with the nutes. I placed the order today for 10 Hashberry and 10 Kalichakra (maybe for a friend) from Mandala. As soon as they get in I'm going to take a trip to the hydro store while they're germinating. Going to get at least one bag of FFOF, some EWC, and maybe Light Warrior. If they have LW I'm going to start in that, cut with EWC and some perlite. If not, same route but with FFOF instead of LW.

Also going to order that awesome looking 430w bulb. The waiting is the hardest part I swear, I think most growers can attest to that.

Not to get off subject but for when they get a little bigger I have some FF Big Bloom. I was going to pretty much use that and maybe add some molasses on occasion. Any other tips for that stage? I know it's far off right now but I'm trying to get an idea of the bigger picture of what I will need for the whole grow.

 

[hubcap]

mandala mikes strains (to include hashberry and kalichakra) were developed and bred to be stock that isnt so needy in the food/nute department. basically they were bred to be easy grows, and bascially, hes done a great job. most of the stuff ive run has been easy going, so youve got that going for ya. keep in kind the hashberry will finish up before the kalichakra does.

sounds like youve got a plan working.....LW is fine, as well, to start em in, imo.

as far as the fox farms liquid ferts and additives....
these can be quite hot and i would recommened using 1/4 doses and step-up from that.
the stuff can burn plants even tho it is pretty much organic.
it can happen, just be aware that you wanna cut the "bottle recommended doses" in half or quarter to start off with, and, if the plant reacts well, and still looks hungry to you....step up the dose on the next feed.


other than that.....its pretty much gathering your supplies. dont be afriad to parooze flea markets and craisgslists for the tools, pots, etc. most people sell that stuff cheap or even give it away if you come get it.

ask away if ya got anything else, deadly fear.

-cap

 

[Deadly Fear]

Good ideas there hubcap, will start them at 1/4 and go from there. Also did not know that the two plants would finish earlier, good tip!

Well it looks like I should be good to go for a while so I'm going to close the thread at least until I get the seeds in. Thanks to all who took the time to answer my questions. Have a beautiful one!

 

[WeedChuck]

400w balast needs a 400w bulb, no if ands or buts.

 

[hubcap]

http://www.specialty-lights.com/9960.html

just *one* example.


lets not steer this cat the wrong way with false statements.

-cap