How do neem oil and a foliar compost tea compliment each other?

[weimer222]

I am going to start my first grow. I've done extensive reading about possible pests and ways of preventing them from getting established. I've read that neem oil applied every three days or so up through 4 weeks of flowering is effective at reducing insect problems (along with cleanliness and other efforts that I won't go into). I've also read that a well brewed compost tea applied as a foliar spray is helpful at suppressing diseases and insects too.

Would a regular application of neem oil be counterproductive to the beneficial effects of the compost tea foliar spray? That is, would neem oil kill the microorganisms from the compost tea? If so, what is an effective way of using both of these as a pest preventative?

 

[happyhi]

This is a good question, help please
peace/hh

 

[maryjohn]

This one is killing me and I don't wanna hear the answer.

In my own growing for the next while the plants will be getting foliar neem and wormcasting extract or aerated tea applied to the soil.

 

[weimer222]

This one is killing me and I don't wanna hear the answer.

In my own growing for the next while the plants will be getting foliar neem and wormcasting extract or aerated tea applied to the soil.

That is the only thing I can think of: using the neem oil as a foliar spray, while applying the compost tea as a soil treatment. I guess I am wondering is the compost tea foliar spray as effective as neem oil? If it was, you could use it in place of neem oil. However, I was planning to buy my tea kit from simplici-tea.com and from talking with Tad, I really need to brew 5 gallons at once. For treating 5 plants that is excessive, but I could use the excess on house plants or my garden in the summer months. However, the cost for making a compost tea is about $8 a shot (using their ingredients, which I would prefer to because they have documented lab results). There's no way I could apply the compost tea under these considerations every 3 days as with neem oil. I am willing to pay an extra $25 a grow cycle, but not too much more than that. However, is such an infrequent use as effective as a more regular application of neem oil? I find that hard to believe. Maybe the soil treatment with the compost tea is the best approach. Curious as to others' thoughts.

 

[growinthehills]

I'm pretty sure its not a good idea to spray neem when you have no bugs. If you spray just to spray there is a higher possibility that insects will build a resistance. Spray when you see bugs(every three days or so for approximately 3 applications) and keep your room clean and your plants healthy in the mean time. Spraying teas is very beneficial and your plants should love that. Good luck with your growing. just don't wanna build "super bugs".

 

[VerdantGreen]

I'm pretty sure its not a good idea to spray neem when you have no bugs. If you spray just to spray there is a higher possibility that insects will build a resistance. Spray when you see bugs(every three days or so for approximately 3 applications) and keep your room clean and your plants healthy in the mean time. Spraying teas is very beneficial and your plants should love that. Good luck with your growing. just don't wanna build "super bugs".

i disagree. the BEST time to spray with neem is before you see bugs as a preventative. 2 or 3 times in veg has always been enough for me to never see mites. recently i got complacent and didnt spray as a matter of course and now i've seen some mites. neem doesnt work the same as insectacide - its totally natural. once you are infested it's often too late especially in flower when you cant spray.

personally i wouldnt foliar spray with anything like compost tea, especially in flower as i wouldnt want to leave residue on the leaves that might spoil the smoke or attract pests/mold.

my advice (although im no expert on compost tea) would be use the teas to water your plants and spray with neem as part of your preventative treatment but not after the first week or two of flower.

good luck

V.

 

[growinthehills]

Ya the only time i got mites in flower was when i sprayed neem as a preventative. but it might just be coincidence. I agree don't use foliars in flower. even though neem is natural if you don't kill all the mights by repeatedly spraying they will build resistance that just how it works and that with pretty much anything. definition of pesticide in short is it kills pests.

 

[VerdantGreen]

you may want to read this thread about neem and how it works. dont draw conclusions from the one time you had mites. temps, humidity etc are all big factors.

lumping all substances that control insects into one category is over simplification. remember you are going to smoke this stuff!

http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=4485

V.

 

[OrganicMeds]

A little bit of this stuff in your ORGANIC soil mix works wonders.....

Nutri-Neem Granular Fertiliser™

A high quality imported neem seed granules.

http://www.nutri-tech.com.au/products/bio-management/nutri-neem-granular-fertiliser.html

 

[weimer222]

I am really hoping CT or Microbeman can chime in.

 

[VerdantGreen]

weimer you should specify whether you are growing indoor or outdoor

 

[weimer222]

weimer you should specify whether you are growing indoor or outdoor

Sorry, indoors.

 

[CT Guy]

I am really hoping CT or Microbeman can chime in.

I just noticed this thread. I wish I had more info. I could pass along on this, but I really haven't tested it. Here's what few thoughts I do have on it.

1. We use vegetable oil to control foaming (1-2 tsp. in a 5 gal. brewer) with no detrimental effects on the biology in the tea.

2. I struggle with the idea of using something that is listed as a ~cide, whether organic or not, prior to an infestation, but do see how a preventative would be advantageous. In theory, if you soil food web is balanced, then there's no reason to have mite problems. With the neem oil, you're treating a symptom, not correcting that fact that something is out of balance in your system.

3. I'm assuming that regular applications would have some impact on the biology on the leaf surface of the plant, though I can't speculate what that would be without testing.

4. I don't think you would need to apply tea every time you used the neem oil, how frequently are you planning on applying it? I'd use it to get the problem under control and then just rely on the tea and the other organisms to keep the problem in check.

Maybe Microbeman has more experience with this. Hope it helps!

 

[CT Guy]

That is the only thing I can think of: using the neem oil as a foliar spray, while applying the compost tea as a soil treatment. I guess I am wondering is the compost tea foliar spray as effective as neem oil? If it was, you could use it in place of neem oil. However, I was planning to buy my tea kit from simplici-tea.com and from talking with Tad, I really need to brew 5 gallons at once. For treating 5 plants that is excessive, but I could use the excess on house plants or my garden in the summer months. However, the cost for making a compost tea is about $8 a shot (using their ingredients, which I would prefer to because they have documented lab results). There's no way I could apply the compost tea under these considerations every 3 days as with neem oil. I am willing to pay an extra $25 a grow cycle, but not too much more than that. However, is such an infrequent use as effective as a more regular application of neem oil? I find that hard to believe. Maybe the soil treatment with the compost tea is the best approach. Curious as to others' thoughts.

For tea applications, I would consider 1x a week to be an aggressive rate, and 1x every 2 weeks to be an avg. rate for your crop. With the giant pumpkin growers, we're finding they're applying at similar rates with good results. I can't imagine every three days. I don't think you'll see noticeably better results at that frequency. For the avg. gardener, you're looking at 1x a month or as low as 3-5x a year on their plants and shrubs for a maintenance application.

It's only because you're doing such intensive growing with a short life cycle that I would even consider a 1x a week rate.

 

[neongreen]

I used a product called Buzzoff, which contains neem, in between my foliar tea applications, and it worked well, but it needs re-applying every week or so to be effective IMO.

I'd also recommend using neem containing products as a preventative measure. I was a little lazy and my plants suffered from "flea beetle" damage because of it.

One it was on there, no more damage...

 

[jaykush]

how often do you plan on applying them? i would go with a healthy compost tea vs neem myself. when i foliar spray compost tea its usually once a week or every two weeks. with soil applications as well.

personally i don't think the neem will kill your micro organisms as long as application doesn't get excessive.

oh and you dont need to brew 5 gallons at a time, im brewing 1 gallon right now to dilute for foliar sprays.

 

[weimer222]

how often do you plan on applying them? i would go with a healthy compost tea vs neem myself. when i foliar spray compost tea its usually once a week or every two weeks. with soil applications as well.

personally i don't think the neem will kill your micro organisms as long as application doesn't get excessive.

oh and you dont need to brew 5 gallons at a time, im brewing 1 gallon right now to dilute for foliar sprays.

Well, as far as applying the neem oil, I am looking for advice, but have read to apply every 3 days or so up through 4 weeks into flowering. I'd prefer to use a foliar spray of compost tea instead. It seems like it would promotes greater health. However, on simplici-tea's Web site, they only sell prepackaged compost kits for 5 gallons. I don't know if it is easy to scale the ingredients back to one gallon amounts. Also, would one gallon of liquid cover the hose that feeds the pump?

I just don't know enough about the scalability of the product and the corresponding compost kit as it is sold. When I asked Tad, one of the people that works at simplici-tea, he recommended i make the full 5 gallon batch. Whether that is because that is the minimum that can be done with the equipment or it's just easier, I don't know. I do know that at $8 a batch that is too much money to apply weekly foliar sprays, plus the fact that I don't need five gallons. If I could scale it back to one gallon amounts, it would be cost effective, and I would use this instead of the neem oil. I think it is a healthier approach.

 

[growinthehills]

you may want to read this thread about neem and how it works. dont draw conclusions from the one time you had mites. temps, humidity etc are all big factors.

lumping all substances that control insects into one category is over simplification. remember you are going to smoke this stuff!

http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=4485

V.

Hey thanks for posting that link. It was very informative. The best characteristic you can have of a pesticide is that insects don't build resistance and I am very glad to hear that neem oil is one of those. I agree that lumping all pesticides into one group is over simplification. There are many pesticides that I would never touch. Neem is one of the first things I grab and it works very well.

I also have to remember that was the last time I had mites. The other factors are definitely a big thing when it come to pest problems.

Sometimes it seems like the plants really enjoy a little shower of the neem oil. It seems to have many benefits.
I still would use a compost tea for foliar and soil drench.

Thank you again for posting the informative link.

 

[happyhi]

http://medwelljournals.com/fulltext/rja/2008/12-17.pdf
Check out this link about the effects of neem on soil biology.
peace/hh

 

[jaykush]

if you want to get into doing your own compost tea on the cheap. look into worm composting(worming 101 in the organic reference library sticky), they will give you very high quality compost for teas and reduce your waste going out at the same time. then you could go about making your own brewer specially if you only need 1 gallon at a time. which can be done for a small price. i cant say about the simplicitea brewer, never used one before always made my own.