Quick PH question...but no probs YET

[greentrich]

Hello everyone. Just a quick reference question: What does a lower PH runoff indicate?? My PH in is around 5.7-5.8. Just recently my runoff came down to around 5.4.

There are no signs of problems yet, but I test the runoff every watering and it's slowly coming down. Just a few weeks ago it was coming out 5.9-6.0 fyi.

The method chosen: coco perlite mix, progrow, calmag, liquid karma, and an occasional small dose of peroxide. Am in week six right now...going through the transition. Water with nutes everyday at about 800-900 ppm this week. Handwatering to waste.

Any insight?

Thanks everyone

 

[Solidopc]

Flush your medium with plain water, ph'd to about 5.9. I flush my plants every 3rd watering with plain water to keep salt build up at bay. My ph stays steady for the most part. Got to do if often though or the salts will just build back up and bring the ph down.

 

[buddin_904]

usually the run off pH is of a higher than normal pH value. the lower than normal value, in your case, i would say is indicitive of 1 of 2 things. either your girls want more potassium or base, commonly potassium carb, hydroxide, or silicate. or your nitrogen levels are too high. i dont even check run off pH, but judging by your run off pH value these would be the causes.

how do the plants look?? do any have super dark green leaves?? or curled down and inside leaves?

 

[greentrich]

usually the run off pH is of a higher than normal....

how do the plants look?? do any have super dark green leaves?? or curled down and inside leaves?

The higher runoff is what I'm used to, which is what started to raise the question. The plants themselves look top notch...not one single sign of a def or toxicity, but I want to catch it before it happens. The leaves are a little darker I guess...but look very healthy.
No curled leaves either

Thanks for the replies!

 

[daihashi]

Sounds like salt build up. Do you allow your coco to dry between waterings?

Either flush really well (by really well I mean 4-5x the pot volume... slow waterings) or do a minor flush (2x pot volume) and just go up another pot size.

I do not know if you are in veg or in flower. If you are any further along than 2 weeks into flower I would not recommend transplanting.

 

[buddin_904]

Sounds like salt build up. Do you allow your coco to dry between waterings?

Either flush really well (by really well I mean 4-5x the pot volume... slow waterings) or do a minor flush (2x pot volume) and just go up another pot size.

I do not know if you are in veg or in flower. If you are any further along than 2 weeks into flower I would not recommend transplanting.

yea it probably is some / has some form of salt build up which always throws off the pH, a good flush never hurt anyone....unless you do it wrong!

 

[greentrich]

Ya I haven't flushed in a couple weeks. I usually go by what the plants tell me, and since they "look" fine, I just figured I'd keep doin' what I'm doin'.

I water daily, the pots aren't completely dry when watered again, but they're pretty light. I've read a lot of conflicting information on whether or not you should let coco dry out before waterings, watering to runoff, watering daily, feeding daily, etc.... So I rely on the plants, and now the PH runoff, to tell me what to do. Apparently I need to be a bit more diligent with the runoff.
I am currently in the first week of flower, and will transplant when the lights are off when something starts showing sex. I found a method for transplanting during flower that is very little to no stress at all. I know it's not optimal, but considering my circumstances it's what I gotta do.

I flushed with all the water I had and a bit of clearex, that got the runoff from 4.9 up to 5.5 on lowest one, 5.7 on the high side. I'll continue tonight to get it up a bit farther.

Thanks for everyone's input! Very appreciated.

 

[daihashi]

Ya I haven't flushed in a couple weeks. I usually go by what the plants tell me, and since they "look" fine, I just figured I'd keep doin' what I'm doin'.

I feed with plain water every third watering/feeding. This seems to have halted the need for me to flush. Also keeping the medium consistantly moist and not letting it dry out really helped me stabilize PH when I was first learning coco.

I water daily, the pots aren't completely dry when watered again, but they're pretty light. I've read a lot of conflicting information on whether or not you should let coco dry out before waterings, watering to runoff, watering daily, feeding daily, etc.... So I rely on the plants, and now the PH runoff, to tell me what to do. Apparently I need to be a bit more diligent with the runoff.

Great that you water daily! That is my preference. Once mature roots are established I water on a daily basis providing about 48 oz or so to each pot (5 gallon pots) on a daily basis and then giving a heavy watering whenever the plant/medium tell me to.

You don't need to water to run off. It's been proven by others that you can do this without watering to runoff. Salt buildup most typically occurs in coco that has been allowed to dry between waterings on a regular basis. The other condition that can cause salt build up and PH problems is being rootbound; however in coco this is usually not a problem as you can keep a plant root bound as long as you like in coco so long as you water frequently. Plus if you're using molasses it has natural chelates that will help you with salt.

With a PH of 5.4 and with the pots being light on a daily basis even with daily watering I would probably think there are parts of your medium drying out regulalry creating salt/ph drop. If you increased to watering twice a day or potted up you would probably see stabilized PH and the plant begin to recover. At least this has been my experience in the past.

I am currently in the first week of flower, and will transplant when the lights are off when something starts showing sex. I found a method for transplanting during flower that is very little to no stress at all. I know it's not optimal, but considering my circumstances it's what I gotta do.

I've actually transplanted 6 weeks into flower on a strain that took 13 weeks. I never have had a problem with transplanting during flower but I don't preach other people to do the same. It is not considered best practice and when giving direction to other people on forums I try (sometimes I'm stoned and slip up) to give them rhe right way and not my way. I would say don't transplant past the second week of flower but if you feel confident in your ability to transplant beyond that point without stressor to the plant then go for it. If I see my plant needs it then I do it but that's just me.

I flushed with all the water I had and a bit of clearex, that got the runoff from 4.9 up to 5.5 on lowest one, 5.7 on the high side. I'll continue tonight to get it up a bit farther.

Thanks for everyone's input! Very appreciated.

that's great; you're on the road to recovery... those aren't optimal PH ranges (IMO... I prefer 5.9-6.0) but plants will definitely still grow without complaint at 5.5-5.7.. what color is the run off that comes out if you were to gather some in a small clear cup? Just curious if you see a yellowish or orangish tinge to it.

 

[greentrich]

daihashi...great reply with a ton of info, thank you so much. Now to your points:

I do water daily knowing that letting things dry out will cause problems. I will start to water plain on the 3rd day now in hopes of avoiding the 2 days of flush that I have to go through...what a pain!
Lesson learned though....and many more to go I'm sure.

If you increased to watering twice a day or potted up you would probably see stabilized PH and the plant begin to recover.

I would love to water twice a day by now. They DO need to be transplanted, but I'm so limited on space...I need to find out which ones to transplant...hence waiting for the sex to show. Luckily though...the plants still look great and are growing completely out of control<<<<I never thought I would have that problem LOL.

that's great; you're on the road to recovery... those aren't optimal PH ranges (IMO... I prefer 5.9-6.0) but plants will definitely still grow without complaint at 5.5-5.7.. what color is the run off that comes out if you were to gather some in a small clear cup? Just curious if you see a yellowish or orangish tinge to it.

Ya they're not optimal at all. But it took a while (and all my RO water) to get them up that high. I will continue tonight and get them all up to the 5.9 6.0 range.
Surprisingly enough, the runoff is pretty clear. There is a very slight tinge to it (yellow or orange...so slight I can't tell).
I don't know if this has any bearing on it, but with the ultra low PH runoff (4.9 to 5.1)...the runoff PPM never exceeded the input PPM(850 to 900), if anything it was lower. Last night when getting the runoff PH up to 5.7, the runoff PPM came way down to 200. Like I said, don't know if that matters...just some more info for ya.

I would say don't transplant past the second week of flower but if you feel confident in your ability to transplant beyond that point without stressor to the plant then go for it. If I see my plant needs it then I do it but that's just me.

My transplant method is one I found either here or another board I frequent. Shit it might have been you Daihashi that I read about:
What I plan on doing is going in the room during lights off with prepared pots and a green "hat light". By prepared pots I mean bigger pots, with the same type of current pots in them surrounded by my medium and prepared with 5.9 balanced RO water. Slip out the empty "mold" pot, slip the lady into her new home. Very easy, very stress free. She won't even know what happened, she'll just wake up to a bigger house.

Thank you again for all your help and time to read through my posts. I can't imagine what would have happened had I not been paying attention and just let it go.

I would love to hear any more words of wisdom!

 

[daihashi]

Ya they're not optimal at all. But it took a while (and all my RO water) to get them up that high. I will continue tonight and get them all up to the 5.9 6.0 range.
Surprisingly enough, the runoff is pretty clear. There is a very slight tinge to it (yellow or orange...so slight I can't tell).
I don't know if this has any bearing on it, but with the ultra low PH runoff (4.9 to 5.1)...the runoff PPM never exceeded the input PPM(850 to 900), if anything it was lower. Last night when getting the runoff PH up to 5.7, the runoff PPM came way down to 200. Like I said, don't know if that matters...just some more info for ya.

Are you flushing with plain water... less than 200 ppm? If so then your runoff coming down to 200ppm is a good thing. It means you should be pretty much good to go in regards to salt and nute build up.

My transplant method is one I found either here or another board I frequent. Shit it might have been you Daihashi that I read about:
What I plan on doing is going in the room during lights off with prepared pots and a green "hat light". By prepared pots I mean bigger pots, with the same type of current pots in them surrounded by my medium and prepared with 5.9 balanced RO water. Slip out the empty "mold" pot, slip the lady into her new home. Very easy, very stress free. She won't even know what happened, she'll just wake up to a bigger house.

Thank you again for all your help and time to read through my posts. I can't imagine what would have happened had I not been paying attention and just let it go.

I would love to hear any more words of wisdom!

Yep.. that's my exact method except I don't do the hat light anymore.. I simply do it right before she's about to go to sleep. Let's her recover over night without having to deal with a bright ass light in her face

The ladies have thanked me over and over for it.. plus it saves me the trouble of working in the dark with a green light.

I originally learned this method as a member on another cannabis forum where I used to frequently post and help other people. You should have no problem with this method but be aware it's not considered best practice to transplant in flower... with that said it's worked for me grow and grow again however I try to determine final potsize before 2 weeks into flower and no later. Better safe than sorry.

 

[chemsteady]

real quick...

real quick...

i think you hit it on the head in your first post. your plants look great. measuring run-off in not the best indicator of anything, the plants themselves are. weird looking/ discolored leaves? ph issue.

dont overfert and you wont have excessive salt build up, and shouldnt have to flush your plants until harvest time (although you most certainly can if it makes you feel better ) best not to overthink this stuff.
~c