Mycorrhizal Fungi in Aeroponics?

[Apollonia]

I've heard that Mycorrhizal fungi are either of no or very limited benefit in an aeroponics system or they cannot live in aeroponics as there is no medium for them to colonize (I thought they could colonize the root system in that case) but I have the urge to try mycorrhizae has excellent properties in aeroponics & you just have to watch that they do not clog your misters.

The product I'm thinking of using is SubCulture M from General Hydroponics in conjunction with Subculture B, which I am going to use bio-balls in my reservoir to give them a place to live on. As my system is not a fine mist system, it doesn't produce those fine fluffy lateral roots you see in "true" aeroponics systems, just long spaghetti-like roots - I thought that the mycorrhizae could replace them and act as lateral roots and provide some protection against pathogens.

I know there are only a few aeroponics growers out there and fewer still that use mycorrhizae, but if anyone, whether or not they're aero growers or mycorrhizae users, could offer their two cents - it would be appreciated. Do mycorrhizae & aeroponics mix? Or are they just not useful except in soil.

 

[geopolitical]

You may be able to inoculate them by doing a dip instead of trying to run it through the system. It's worth a try in my opinion, I just wouldn't run it through the system.

At the very least, happy bacteria would be a decent idea for any system.

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Definitely add a Myco supplement if you're going with other beneficials root agents like Subculture-B. The low cost is outweighed by ANY beneficial action the fungi will bring. It won't be ideal for your grow but it will help. And think about it, $20 for a bag of fungus isn't shit compared to what it can do for your plants if it even helps a little bit (assuming the supplement is proven, not untested snake oil).

 

[Rocky Mtn Squid]

I've heard that Mycorrhizal fungi are either of no or very limited benefit in an aeroponics system or they cannot live in aeroponics as there is no medium for them to colonize (I thought they could colonize the root system in that case) but I have the urge to try mycorrhizae has excellent properties in aeroponics & you just have to watch that they do not clog your misters.

The product I'm thinking of using is SubCulture M from General Hydroponics in conjunction with Subculture B, which I am going to use bio-balls in my reservoir to give them a place to live on. As my system is not a fine mist system, it doesn't produce those fine fluffy lateral roots you see in "true" aeroponics systems, just long spaghetti-like roots - I thought that the mycorrhizae could replace them and act as lateral roots and provide some protection against pathogens.

I know there are only a few aeroponics growers out there and fewer still that use mycorrhizae, but if anyone, whether or not they're aero growers or mycorrhizae users, could offer their two cents - it would be appreciated. Do mycorrhizae & aeroponics mix? Or are they just not useful except in soil.

mycorrhizae & aero works, if you are willing to put up with the headace's it will create. Those pesky critter's will get into all of your fiter's, pumps, misters, and just about everything else they flow around. They will help your roots break down and absorb more nutes, rewarding you with bigger & better buds. There are some brands of mycorrhizae that are liquid, but I have never tried them.

I once made a small permeable balloon out of some panty hose. I placed crushed lava rocks and a generous helping of AN Pirahhna. By folding, twisting tying the hose up several times, and mycorhizae were perfectly happy to colonize inside their new panty hose home. They made my plants big and fat, but still gave me all kinds of problem's, clogging up everything.

 

[Apollonia]

mycorrhizae & aero works, if you are willing to put up with the headace's it will create. Those pesky critter's will get into all of your fiter's, pumps, misters, and just about everything else they flow around. They will help your roots break down and absorb more nutes, rewarding you with bigger & better buds. There are some brands of mycorrhizae that are liquid, but I have never tried them.

I once made a small permeable balloon out of some panty hose. I placed crushed lava rocks and a generous helping of AN Pirahhna. By folding, twisting tying the hose up several times, and mycorhizae were perfectly happy to colonize inside their new panty hose home. They made my plants big and fat, but still gave me all kinds of problem's, clogging up everything.

Hey there Rocky Mtn Squid! I had read your post in the stickied myco thread and hoped you would answer. So it made an improvement even in an aerosystem - that's impressive as you must have already been getting high yields. That's really something else. I love your avatar. Great googly-moogly!

Thank you for the info on your system and experiences w/myco - I'm hoping the bio-balls will serve as a substrate much like your pantyhose & hydroton baggie (that's genius - I may have to switch to that) - but I'm also going to add some Scotch Brite to the bottom of my aero/nft system to give them a place closer to the roots to live on by basically lining the "floor" of the system with this: http://www.scotch-brite.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Scotch-BriteBrand/Scotch-Brite/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U52300V2E0I02BK7KM0GT3_nid=RWGDPNXX08gsBBDGVJTLBMglJC3NXJH2HPbl&prodID=RWGDPNXX08gs〈=en_US

Someone on the GH blog mentioned that they were lining the trough of their nft system with these for their myco fungi so I thought I'd give it a try - if you're interested, I'll let you know how it ends up for me.

As to the how proven this product is, I was "sold" on SubCulture after reading this study - http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cach...re+study&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a. Granted, it was some done on the product "SubCulture" when they were combined both M & B into one package, they've been spilt up since then. But I think the data applies to the products now also.

I think dusting the roots iis a definite must with these guys, and if you can't do that, I hear a concentrated drench is second best - which is what I may have to do with my mothers in Hydroton dutch buckets.

In either case, I'm planning on giving the Myco 1 week to establish itself (along with floranectar and/or florablend for food) before adding other minerals or SubCulture B as I hear the bacteria can out compete the fungi before they have a chance to establish themselves.

How often to innoculate after that... I hear pretty frequently, like every week - I think I should play it by ear. How often do you re-innoculate your myco, Rocky? I'm going to take your advice (from the other thread) and go it at a half dose, keep a close eyes out for clogs, & clean the pumps often.

Thanks all for all the excellent responses.

 

[WildWayne]

Have you heard of using a nautral sponge?

Have you heard of using a nautral sponge?

I have heard that using a natural sponge, over your air stones, will also help make a home for the colonies. Something to think about instead of the hydroton.

 

[turbolaser4528]

Hey there Rocky Mtn Squid! I had read your post in the stickied myco thread and hoped you would answer. So it made an improvement even in an aerosystem - that's impressive as you must have already been getting high yields. That's really something else. I love your avatar. Great googly-moogly!

Thank you for the info on your system and experiences w/myco - I'm hoping the bio-balls will serve as a substrate much like your pantyhose & hydroton baggie (that's genius - I may have to switch to that) - but I'm also going to add some Scotch Brite to the bottom of my aero/nft system to give them a place closer to the roots to live on by basically lining the "floor" of the system with this: http://www.scotch-brite.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Scotch-BriteBrand/Scotch-Brite/Products/Catalog/?PC_7_RJH9U52300V2E0I02BK7KM0GT3_nid=RWGDPNXX08gsBBDGVJTLBMglJC3NXJH2HPbl&prodID=RWGDPNXX08gs〈=en_US

Someone on the GH blog mentioned that they were lining the trough of their nft system with these for their myco fungi so I thought I'd give it a try - if you're interested, I'll let you know how it ends up for me.

As to the how proven this product is, I was "sold" on SubCulture after reading this study - http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cach...re+study&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=firefox-a. Granted, it was some done on the product "SubCulture" when they were combined both M & B into one package, they've been spilt up since then. But I think the data applies to the products now also.

I think dusting the roots iis a definite must with these guys, and if you can't do that, I hear a concentrated drench is second best - which is what I may have to do with my mothers in Hydroton dutch buckets.

In either case, I'm planning on giving the Myco 1 week to establish itself (along with floranectar and/or florablend for food) before adding other minerals or SubCulture B as I hear the bacteria can out compete the fungi before they have a chance to establish themselves.

How often to innoculate after that... I hear pretty frequently, like every week - I think I should play it by ear. How often do you re-innoculate your myco, Rocky? I'm going to take your advice (from the other thread) and go it at a half dose, keep a close eyes out for clogs, & clean the pumps often.

Thanks all for all the excellent responses.

That study was a good read. apparently a little subculture goes a long way hah or just use the bacteria from the air. We need an exeriement, bac from the air vs subculture. see which 1 outperforms the other.

 

[Apollonia]

That study was a good read. apparently a little subculture goes a long way hah or just use the bacteria from the air. We need an exeriement, bac from the air vs subculture. see which 1 outperforms the other.

Bacteria from the air interacting with the reservoir/medium positively? Could you tell me more? I have never heard of bacteria from the air behaving as beneficial bacteria like the stuff in SubCulture - sounds amazing (and free!) (Unless there was something about airborne bacteria in the study and I've forgotten it - it's been a while since I read it last)

 

[Rocky Mtn Squid]

M Funghi..... Those Pesky little Beneficial Critter's

M Funghi..... Those Pesky little Beneficial Critter's

How often to innoculate after that... I hear pretty frequently, like every week - I think I should play it by ear. How often do you re-innoculate your myco, Rocky? I'm going to take your advice (from the other thread) and go it at a half dose, keep a close eyes out for clogs, & clean the pumps often.

OK.....let's talk mycorhizal. These fungi, they're not bacteria, occur naturally in fertile soil. They need the correct environment and food to stay healthy and happy.When this occurs, they break down nutrients, secreting enzyme's and proteins in the soil that enable and stimulate plant roots to uptake & digest their nutrients. Now, fast forward to a hydro system. It has all kinds of filter's, pump's, air stone's, mister's, and smaller diameter plumbing. I utilize a hybrid aero - dwc system, that is, a 40 gallon tub with my plant hanging in a 10 " basket with lava rocks, surrounded by mister's on a adjustable minute timer. There is always 2" of of water on the bottom, and lots & lots of tiny bubbles from several air stones. This gives your plant plenty of room to grow a ginormous root mass. I've had plants that took up 1/2 of the tub with roots. Not doubt about it, big healthy roots gives you big fat buds.

Now add some m. fungi. A N isn't the only brand that offers it, and I'm pretty sure that you can buy it in a liquid - someone help me out on this one - if your roots were pearly white, they are no longer. Once they colonize, roots will appear to the untrained eye to be suffering from root rot. If your temps are kept cool - 60 F - and the tub is always flowing, draining and filling at the same time, you're golden. Then, if you want to step it up a notch, you introduce beneficial bacteria. You can add some AN Tarantula. The bacteria and the fungi interact happily together. Naturally, AN makes you buy both product's seperately, and they're both quite pricey. I only use AN because I was given a shitload of free sample packs of both Piranna and Tarantula. They have a very long shelf life, and will keep for many years if stored in a cool dry place. You can go to your local garden center and buy comparable funghi and bacteria for a much more reasonable price. If I had to go and buy some, I would probably want to use a liquid type of m fungi. In powdered form it causes too many problem's in a hydro system, especially an aero system.

Now....congratulations, cause you have just clogged your mister's, air stone's pump's and filters for the rest of your current grow. You will never get them out unless you shut eveything down and thoroughly clean every last end and elbow of your system. It will drive you crazy, especially if you add too much. Less is better. Because of the headache's it creates, I use very little. I usually mix up a small batch of Pirahna & Tarantula, 3-1, carefully mixing it with nute water so its disolved. Then just pour it over your lava rocks in your plant basket. Done....dont add anymore. I usually do this twice. Once when the plant is younger in veg mode, just a tiny bit, and in the first week of bloom, more than just a tiny bit, but not too much.

Another prudent alternative in using m. fungi is to apply it via a foliar spray. That's right. Just disolve it in some H20 and spray during veg and the first week of bloom. I wouldn't use it in a foliar spray after that.

Now you need to feed the little bugger's. They love sugar, as in carbs, as in AN Carbo Load. Add some AN VooDoo Juice, and if everything is dialed in properly, you're roots will explode in size in the next month. I usually follow the AN nute calculator, knowing full well that less is always better than more.

 

[turbolaser4528]

Bacteria from the air interacting with the reservoir/medium positively? Could you tell me more? I have never heard of bacteria from the air behaving as beneficial bacteria like the stuff in SubCulture - sounds amazing (and free!) (Unless there was something about airborne bacteria in the study and I've forgotten it - it's been a while since I read it last)

yeah, this is described in detail in big tokes how to of the bio-buckets. His system runs exclusively off of free beneficial bacteria from the air. According to die hard bio-bucket people, there's no need for any aftermarket product as the system will colonize as long as there's a fan on the res/waterfall.

 

[Apollonia]

OK.....let's talk mycorhizal. These fungi, they're not bacteria, occur naturally in fertile soil. They need the correct environment and food to stay healthy and happy.When this occurs, they break down nutrients, secreting enzyme's and proteins in the soil that enable and stimulate plant roots to uptake & digest their nutrients. Now, fast forward to a hydro system. It has all kinds of filter's, pump's, air stone's, mister's, and smaller diameter plumbing. I utilize a hybrid aero - dwc system, that is, a 40 gallon tub with my plant hanging in a 10 " basket with lava rocks, surrounded by mister's on a adjustable minute timer. There is always 2" of of water on the bottom, and lots & lots of tiny bubbles from several air stones. This gives your plant plenty of room to grow a ginormous root mass. I've had plants that took up 1/2 of the tub with roots. Not doubt about it, big healthy roots gives you big fat buds.

Now add some m. fungi. A N isn't the only brand that offers it, and I'm pretty sure that you can buy it in a liquid - someone help me out on this one - if your roots were pearly white, they are no longer. Once they colonize, roots will appear to the untrained eye to be suffering from root rot. If your temps are kept cool - 60 F - and the tub is always flowing, draining and filling at the same time, you're golden. Then, if you want to step it up a notch, you introduce beneficial bacteria. You can add some AN Tarantula. The bacteria and the fungi interact happily together. Naturally, AN makes you buy both product's seperately, and they're both quite pricey. I only use AN because I was given a shitload of free sample packs of both Piranna and Tarantula. They have a very long shelf life, and will keep for many years if stored in a cool dry place. You can go to your local garden center and buy comparable funghi and bacteria for a much more reasonable price. If I had to go and buy some, I would probably want to use a liquid type of m fungi. In powdered form it causes too many problem's in a hydro system, especially an aero system.

Now....congratulations, cause you have just clogged your mister's, air stone's pump's and filters for the rest of your current grow. You will never get them out unless you shut eveything down and thoroughly clean every last end and elbow of your system. It will drive you crazy, especially if you add too much. Less is better. Because of the headache's it creates, I use very little. I usually mix up a small batch of Pirahna & Tarantula, 3-1, carefully mixing it with nute water so its disolved. Then just pour it over your lava rocks in your plant basket. Done....dont add anymore. I usually do this twice. Once when the plant is younger in veg mode, just a tiny bit, and in the first week of bloom, more than just a tiny bit, but not too much.

Another prudent alternative in using m. fungi is to apply it via a foliar spray. That's right. Just disolve it in some H20 and spray during veg and the first week of bloom. I wouldn't use it in a foliar spray after that.

Now you need to feed the little bugger's. They love sugar, as in carbs, as in AN Carbo Load. Add some AN VooDoo Juice, and if everything is dialed in properly, you're roots will explode in size in the next month. I usually follow the AN nute calculator, knowing full well that less is always better than more.

Wow. thanks for laying it all out there for me. It took me a little while to integrate all that info, but I think I've got it. I'm definitely refining my plans based on your suggestions. I'll likely use the myco in my mothers' (non-aeroponic) dutch buckets by drenching the roots. The aeroponics units... I'll have to consider it more and when I do - the question becomes how much. I was thinking the safest ay might be the foliar spray idea - if it gets them down to the roots. I'm not sure how the fungus does that. What's the difference when you apply them via foliar spray? Why did you opt not to do that?

Btw, my roots do appear to have root rot, they don't, it's just the Floralicious Plus I've added - it has beneficials that make your roots look brown. I was told that the best way to apply the myco is to dust the roots with it, but it seems to me that they'd likely get washed away in the first burst from the sprayers - also it complicates your ability to control the amount precisely. The measurements given are based on reservoir gallon size - which is strange to me b/c as you say, they don't really live in your reservoir... I guess I'm still confused by some of that.