Do you keep your reservoir aerated or mixed? How?

[ItsAllOver]

I've been wondering whether or not it's necessary to aerate my res. I'm using E&F tables with 4x4x4 rockwool cubes sitting on top of 3"x6" rockwool slabs.

I know that aeration is achieved in setups like these by the nutrient solution flooding/flushing through the rockwool, then draining back out, drawing air in to replace the excess solution that was saturating them. But....

I also figure it might just be a good idea to aerate to keep the solution mixed, and to promote beneficial (aerobic) bacteria so that the nasty (anaerobic) bacteria don't begin to take hold. Can't ever really hurt to have some more dissolved oxygen.

Also, does anyone use oxygen generators or tanks to supply their reservoir with more pure oxygen than just air? I've wondered about the efficacy of this for a while. Smells a bit like overkill.

Anyway, I'll post a poll so that there will be a concise version of any responses to the thread, but feel free to chime in with a more detailed description of your setup if you'd like.


EDIT: Aw shit how do I edit my poll I created it prematurely!??

 

[Bulldog11]

My personal experience with aerating my res with Ebb and Flow is that it is not necessary. First off, too much air can be bad. It will cause your ph to just up and down too quickly. Also like you said, the water flowing in the cube then back out will produce all the oxygen you will need. It is still very important to keep a pump, pumping water around in your res. If you don't, the nutrients will settle to the bottom of the res and then your plants are not getting the mix they require.

So dont waste your time/electrical energy setting up anything special for your Ebb and Flow setup.

 

[dubwise]

i don't seem to have any ph drift in my resevoir...I check it every couple of days and change every 10 days. I use an airstone in my 40gal tub.

 

[ItsAllOver]

I've heard many conflicting views about the pH drift with using airstones.... One opinion that I read, and I think it was Hydro-Soil who said it, was that the bubbles from airstones makes the solution splash on the walls of the res, and when the H2O makes its way back to the solution, some nutrient residue is left there where it hardens. Now you have higher pH in the res along with lower PPM.

I had a hunch that nutrient solution level above the bubbler had something to do with how much this effect is felt. I did some experiments and discovered that the "splashiness" of the bubbles in the reservoir did not seem any different at varying levels of fill.

Now position of the bubbler might matter. Keep it centered in the reservoir and it won't splash as much onto the walls. This is yet another candidate for an easy controlled experiment. I'll think about giving it a shot.

dubwise: Where is your airstone located in the tub? Or does it move every time you maintain the reservoir? How filled is your tub? Is it tall and deep or shallow and wide?

 

[Livnthadream]

I use a airstone in my 40 gal res. Works fine...it's better to have aeration so the h20 just sit.

 

[ItsAllOver]

Does bubble aeration lead to pH rising in your situation? Bueller?

 

[Mist]

I aereate the resovior of my Ebb&Gro system with an airstone and have no ph fluxuations. Now if the resovior or room temps get too high there will be ph fluxuations and that is where I think people have their problems and blame it on the airstones. If you have your air pump located in an area of the of your growroom that gets hot you are going to be pumping hot air into your nutrients and therefore raising the temps of the nutrients and there goes your set ph levels, LOL.
There is no such thing as "Too much O2" in your nutrient solution. Whether you want to artificially infuse your nutrient with oxygen or just let it be drawn in by infusion within the rockwool is the choice of each grower I guess.
After many years of doing DWC I have seen things go from weighted airlines with no airstone that was supposed to be better because the larger bubbles broke the surface tension and kept things well mixed to all kinds of air stones, wands and diffusers that were supposed to add more O2 to the nutrient solution and in the end a jacuzzi like enviroment with currents, bubbles, splashing etc...
In the end they all worked for different people. So what you need to find is what works well for you and your growing style and stick to that. Don't be afraid to experiment though because the next greatest method is always right around the corner.


Happy Growing.

 

[Livnthadream]

No ph fluctuation here.

 

[EvilTwin]

Hi Guys,
With E&F trays and hydroton, I used to aerate, but I read a little article (AN newsletter) about how over-aeration could cause oxidation of iron chelators causing problems with iron.

Now I have a little T fitting that fits inside the 1/2" hose going up to the tray. That fitting has an air tap on the side. So I hook up an air pump to that using the same timer for the nutrient pump. So when the nutrients enter the tray...they do with with a mix of air bubbles.

I've used that technique for several years with no particular ph problem.
ET

 

[ItsAllOver]

EvilTwin can you take a picture of that. I'm not following you, and I'd like to see.

 

[EvilTwin]

Itsallover,
Sorry Dude...I'm in the middle of a low-grade emergency and I don't know if I can get a shot that'll help. I'm having to leave my grow for upward of a month for a family emergency and am very busy.

Here's a slightly out-of-focus shot of the fitting I was describing. They come with my pumps.

Everything is set up exactly like any other standard Ebb & Flow system. Pump is in the res with a 1/2" vinyl hose up to the tray. Inline in that hose (and fairly low...just above water level) is the pictured fitting.

Air hose from the air pump is attached to the small side fitting so that air from the air pump is pumped directly inside of the nutrient feed hose.

The air pump is plugged into the nutrient pump timer so that 5 times during the lights-on period...as the nutrient pump is pumping solution up to the tray...the air pump is pumping air into the nutrient hose and aerating the solution as it rises and enters the E&F tray.

The solution, as it enters the E&F tray is slightly frothy with air bubbles.

It's a neat system and i would never have set it up this way had I not received the fittings with my nutrient pump.

Air pump only aerates the solution as it goes up to the plants. Then after the flood stage is over and the nutrient pump is shut off...so is the air pump.

Best I can do right now...
ET

 

[Hydro-Soil]

it was Hydro-Soil who said it, was that the bubbles from airstones makes the solution splash on the walls of the res, and when the H2O makes its way back to the solution, some nutrient residue is left there where it hardens. Now you have higher pH in the res along with lower PPM.

Yup. Keep in mind it's a 5gal bucket as a res so yes, larger res will have a smaller change and keeping the bubbles from the sides will reduce it further.

My drip system in the flower room runs every 1-4 hours depending on the period in flower it's in. The drainback has a 10" drop to the nute level in the res and I have no issues at all. My e&f tray has a 10" waterfall as well from the overflow drain and it runs 4 times a day. I change my veg E&F res out every 4 months, no issues.

 

[Madrus Rose]

Can't see where u could have problem with too much airation its absolutely one thing u want to have in hydroponics ...airation to the rootzone is golden .

As for what kind of pump to use , once u try these Japonese airpumps made by MEDO
u will never have to buy another .
http://www.usakoi.com/subcat56.html

 

[Aerohead]

More o2 in the water means more growth even with E&F. I haven't seen PH problems and I move lots of air through the res. Can't have too much airation IMO...

 

[dubwise]

itasllover- I use a botnicare 40 gal resevoir and I place the airstone in front of the pumps intake. I use a round airstone and I don't get bubbles that splash all on the sides of my res. I fill my res up to the top. Before I put an airstone in the res, I had just the hose in there and big bubbles were made and I imagine some of the bubbles would have splashed up.

 

[3dDream]

I use an air stone and a water pump at the bottom to keep things mixed. The micros I use requires an airstone to live (according to the label).

 

[ItsAllOver]

EvilTwin, thanks for going out of your way to get the pic. I'm interested in that little fitting. What brand pumps do those come with?
I agree with those that have said no such thing as too much O2, because after all that only excess O2 situation is dry roots, and I'm pretty sure we can all manage to avoid that. However, what I'm interested in finding out is where you reach diminishing returns from pumping more air in the res. As in rockwool Ebb & Flow, if the amount of O2 drawn in by the natural process of the system flushing the cubes is (random number to prove point) 50x greater than the amount of DO in the water, then it's pretty pointless to run the airstone. (This assumes that the airstone has no other purpose than adding O2, which some people would argue against)

Anyway...

 

[EvilTwin]

I'm interested in that little fitting. What brand pumps do those come with?

I'm not sure I can help you there. I've bought many pumps over the year...but most are ECO brand. Next time you're pump shopping, open up the box and see what accessories are included.
ET

 

[Mist]

Those fittings come with many different brands of pumps, but mostly the smaller ones like 150gph. EvilTwin is using it for exactly what it was made for except that he is using an actual air pump to pump O2 into the line. Those fittings usually come with a short piece of airline and a fitting that attaches to the other end that is placed outside the resovior and it allows air to be siphoned into the the main line by the suction of the nutrients being pumped. The little fitting that attches to the airline has a one way valve in it that keeps nutrient from being pumped out so all it can do is bring air in. Would be a mess otherwise, LOL!
I think I have 5 or 6 of those fittings sitting around from all the pumps I have bought over the years.

 

[Mist]

Here are a couple shots of one of those fittings on a pump. The brand is ViaAqua and it is a 1300gph pump. But I can't remember if if came with that pump. This one is a screw in fitting. And yes I know that pump is filthy, LOL!
I couldn't find one of the end pieces though since I just boxed up a ton of shit that I didn't need in my present setup and put it in the attic. Sorry.





Oh yea, sorry for the double posting. It won't let me add pictures in the edit mode.