my tea stinks!

[river rat01]

for the first 24-30 hours it smells sweet.
but after that, it starts going rank. its in a 5 gal bucket and aerated with a large air pump. i adjust ph to 6.5 - 7.
whats the deal?

 

[BillFarthing]

Are you adding anything like Subculture B or M? Is it homemade compost that could have gone anaerobic before it was fermented?

Granted, I have had some tea turn funky. I kept bubbling it until it wasn't "hot" anymore and it was suitable to use regardless of smell.

 

[jwm]

I'm going to start using guanos exclusively next season but will apply directly to the soil. Done my research, asked the peps that know and have had much success...No messing w/ the tea thing...sounds like work?

 

[river rat01]

i add several different kinds of bagged compost, cow manure, biozome,EWC, bat guano.
what am i doing wrong?

 

[OrganicMeds]

I've kept a tea bubbling for over 8 months now & it's still sweet smelling, I just keep adding to it when it get's low. I use a 30lt bucket and when it get's down to about 10lts I just add more castings & molasses. Never had a problem...........yet

I do have 2 x 30cm bubble wands in the bucket though going through a pretty big air pump, sometimes I have bubbles a meter over the bucket!

I got the idea from reading about 500+ year old Chinese master stocks

"In theory a given master stock could be sustained indefinitely if due care is taken to ensure it does not spoil (See Master stocks and food safety). Legend claims there are master stocks in China that are hundreds of years old, passed down through generations of cooks in this way."

 

[LadyLargely]

Sounds like some anaerobic activity to me!!

You rattle off a pretty good list of additives. But this is organics, and a lot of that stuff contains much water insoluable material. If that shit piles up at the bottom of your bucket then anaerobic nastiest can move in and crash the party.

I mean, EWC, compost, cow manuer and bat guano? Thats a lot of sediment. Are you bubbling it in a proper mesh sock? Even still, you might wanna consider hot extraction or something to cut down on the quantity of grit in your tea. Any trapped water in a tea container is bad.

 

[river rat01]

what is hot extraction?

 

[LadyLargely]

what is hot extraction?

So if thats the case you are limited to teas. And the problem with aerated teas is that its hard to extract low-potency water-insoluble powders like blood meal or alfalfa meal. There are two ways to help this:

1: Hot Extraction.

Boil a couple quarts of water. Add enough powdered organics in the desired ratio to work with 4-5 gallons of water. Immediately reduce heat and let stew in the 160 F+ water for a quarter hour. If you want to be really thorough pour this slurry into a mason jar or something sealable that will withstand some heat and shake the shit out of it for a while.

Strain off the now relatively useless solid and add the hopefully very murky liquid to a large bucket. Fill it up with cool de-chlorinated tap water, add a couple tablespoons of molasses and dope with any dormant beneficial microbes you may have. Toss in a working air stone and wait a couple days. Scrape off any foam that forms as usual.

2: Sock Method

Pinch a knackered pair of your lady's panty hose. Cut off the bottom foot of one leg, give yourself 12 inches or so of it. Fill the end of the sock with your organic powders. Cram your air-stone in the middle of it. Cinch up the sock around the air-line and tie it off really tight. Turn on the air pump and flop the sucker in. Add molasses and bennies. Remove foam as usual.


Both methods have their merits. Sock method takes a lot longer but is a bit more thorough. Hot extraction is very quick and effective, but it can be a hot smelly mess.

 

[Citizen024]

One more:

Use a coffer percolator to cook the shit out of your nutrients (guano, etc) till it becomes a nice dark liquid. Add this to your tea per the hot extraction method from that point on.

I have actually seen 1000ppm liquid come out of percolator (but I didn't make it myself) from a tea a friend made this way. He used it in small amounts since it was so concentrated.

 

[CT Guy]

I feel like there's some misconceptions in this thread. Can we back up a second? Why are you making the tea in the 1st place? Are you trying to add soluble nutrients or beneficial biology?

If you're trying to add soluble nutrients, then you can just mix and apply, no brewing necessary.

If you're trying to add beneficial biology, then you will need to add compost (biology source), a food substrate (unsulfured molasses, kelp, humic acid, alfalfa meal, etc...), and aerate (.08 cfm/gal). It's important not too add too much foods so as to avoid bacterial blooms which will dramatically lower dissolved oxygen levels.

My guess is that you didn't have enough air, weren't getting good extraction (you have to rip the organisms off the soil particulates through the aeration process), or added too many foods.

I'm sure people are going to jump on me a bit for this post, I'm not trying to be contentious. I'd rather have a discussion on the topic. Don't want to step on anyone's toes.

Cheers,
CT

PS: Foam is NOT a good indicator on the quality of a compost tea. I've looked at many under the microscope and some had foam and some didn't but it didn't tell me anything in regards to biological activity.

PPS: There's been some good discussion on compost teas in the organic soil forum, including some stickies that may be helpful.

 

[Citizen024]

Good post CT Guy, I dig it.

I actually get lots of chunky bacterial growth, but to me that seems a good thing. Plenty of air. I mix EWC with coco (and Oregonism) to give room for growth. I get slimy blife all around the bucket, the sock, and chunking in the water. My medium stays out of the mix, only allowing bacteria to be in the water. Seems good, smells earthy and sweet. Little foam usually.

BUT- I am not trying to add nutrient/guano. Simply brew up EWC and life.

 

[CT Guy]

Just the EWC and you can probably get a way with a little less aeration. Is the EWC in a bag or free suspension? You want to run a diffuser into the bag if you're using one. I'd recommend a paint strainer over nylons or cheesecloth.

What do you mean by chunky? Is there an odor?

I wouldn't brew more than 36 hours.

Cheers,
CT

 

[Citizen024]

Mine takes about 48 hours- though more starter seems to speed it up at first. After about 24 hours or so the growth really takes off. 48 hours is right for me.

The issues your having are why I choose to not place anything high NPK substances in my brew. I have nutrients for that. I am after the life!

It's really amazingly simple. I know paint screens are the perfect size and all, but I getting away with using a simply tighly woven dress sock. Yeah. Thats it. Keep it at the surface.

My plants seem raging to get it. My medium is 50/50 coco-large chunk perlite. I then add a good dose of EWC, maybe 1/2 cup per gallon of mix. Very airy mix to support life.

I run to waste Pura Vida and EJ Catalyst, sometimes Sugar Daddy too. Tea once a week.

I'm posting pics on my Pura Vida Coco thread of it.

 

[CT Guy]

Citizen,

If your aeration levels are lower or you are brewing at colder temps., then an extended brewing cycle may be warranted. You already mentioned you're not adding anything beyond the EWC if I heard you right, in which case it will allow for a longer brewing cycle. If you are adding additional foods, you'll probably want to shorten the brewing cycle to closer to 36 hours. I'm guessing you could make a better tea by putting in more air, running a diffuser directly into your sock (it may not be allowing the full extraction of the fungi and protists), and then also adding some food sources.

As for the longer brewing cycle (I've seen people on here who brew for days or longer), here's the reasoning on why it's better to have a shorter brewing length:

When you're brewing aerated compost tea, you're attemping to maximize the diversity and quantity of beneficial AEROBIC microbes. It's really a shotgun approach. Initially, the bacteria will take off around 8 hours, followed by the fungi around 12-20 hours. Finally, the flagellates will catch up with the increase in bacteria and really take over around 36 hours (realize these are approximate times that will fluctuate based on the variables I listed in previous posts).

Using a microscope you can actually see this occur if you track a brew from beginning to end. Now, what happens when you go longer than say 40 hours? Well, what I've found is that I start to see monocultures, meaning that most of the fungi is gone and I'll see only one particular morphology (physical appearance) of bacteria and flagellates. I no longer have the diversity that I had a 24-36 hours.

Here's why:
Some microbes are going to be more effecient at consuming the food substrates that you're putting into the tea. Over time, these microbes will outcompete the others in the tea for the food or even consume the other microbes in the tea (think of Darwin's theory of Natural Selection).

Now, I'm not saying that a tea full of 1-2 species of bacteria and flagellates can't be beneficial. It may still have a positive effect on your plant. However, you would have a higher quality tea if you used it when there was a higher diversity of organisms because there's going to be different food sources in your growing medium and possibly a species of bacteria that didn't do well but was present in the tea will thrive when put out onto the plant, based on the exudates the plant is releasing.

Lastly, there is no way to know if you have a good tea without a microscope. The best non-microscopic test you can use is your nose. Does it stink? Well then it probably went anaerobic at some point in the brewing cycle and could potentially contain the guys you don't want.

 

[BurmeseDragon]

Impure air going into your bucket of shit! Seems that the air moves some imponderables! Your going to need the dirt to act as a medium, like the compost buried for awhile! Then it gets good!

I'd evaporate for a quick response that will lower the bacteria count and allow a respond. A cook after the evaporation will also contribute the the success of your micro herd.

 

[river rat01]

well lady largley was right.
i was just throwing the compost in the bucket and letting it all "boil" with the airstone.
but it was sitting on the bottom going anaerobic.
so i put it in a paint filter and after 2 days, it smells sweet!

i was also making the mistake of adding too many food source's and trying to fertilize the plants as well.

i really just want to create a large quantity of microbes.

also, should i be trying to adjust PH?
i keep lowering it, but it keeps creeping back to 8.

 

[Citizen024]

The 8 is your microlife at work. Thats where they like it. I wouldn't try to adjust it. Water it in, just make sure your future watering are where they belong. You can check run off to the exit ph.

Thanks much for the info CT Guy. I am always learning. There are few ways we view it different- none the less I feel your right on with everything your saying.

I run plenty of air for sure. I run a stone right under the EWC/coco/Oregonism sock, and am thinking bubbling it right through the filter contents might be cool to try.

I will try putting my next batch in sooner and see the difference if any. I brew a second batch from the same dry ingredients with more water and molasses (plus some left over tea), so I am guessing they are fairly monocropped as well by that point. I did see lots of white growth in the second bacth in short order on the sock. It is now brown.

Last time my tea turned SUPER slime in 24 -36 hours. Maybe thats a better working time then.

Not smelly at all, just sweet and earthy in my bucket.

 

[CT Guy]

River Rat,

I wouldn't be concerned with the pH, you can ignore it when it comes to the tea.

2 days is still too long to be brewing (see my post above for reasons why). I'd start from scratch, cut your inputs, up your aeration, and run a diffuser into the paint strainer in addition to the airstone at the bottom of the bucket. Glass bonded airstones are more expensive but they will hold up much better and you can re-use them if you clean them well.

Citizen,

You should be getting a lot of slime. Slime is bio-film, which is created by microbial action, but that also limits the O2 getting to the organisms under the slime. If you're seeing slime all over the bucket and on the compost, then you're probably not getting enough aeration throughout the entire bucket. When I brew, the tea is a dark brown color and has a slight earthy smell. The sides of the bucket will feel a little slimy (no real visible residue except at the top where all the bubbles are popping). The trick is to make sure that the entire bucket is getting aeration. I use a coil design so as to ensure this occurs.

 

[CT Guy]

I posted some recipes here:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=110620

If you're interested.

Cheers,
CT

 

[MrGreen]

River Rat,
I'd start from scratch, cut your inputs, up your aeration, and run a diffuser into the paint strainer in addition to the airstone at the bottom of the bucket. Glass bonded airstones are more expensive but they will hold up much better and you can re-use them if you clean them well.

What do you think about something like this- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230340332164

Does the size of the bubble matter at all or are we just looking specifically for air flow throughout the tea?