A real non-profit dispensary to compete

[kmk420kali]

Here is a cool li'l tidbit I just noticed...
I was looking on the IRS site concerning Tax Exempt Non Profits...and I see this, under a list of Tax Exempt Orgs...

§ 521(a) Farmers' Cooperative Associations

http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=96184,00.html

I am not a Lawyer, so I may be off base here....anybody with some real knowledge about this??
The reason I was looking, was because I find it funny that you need a sellers permit for weed...but you are not s'pose to be selling it!!

 

[DKBuddy]

what is a dispensary

lol i meant what kind of dispensary are we talkin bout? one only selling herbs to medical users ??

 

[Payaso]

Yes sir, that's what they do. Sell Medical Marijuana to registered medical patients.

 

[Danknuggler]

Exactly, it seems like were all thinkign along the same lines, and that were all seeing the same flaws and mishaps. This is awsome! If we can all see it then it must be true. There is no real non-profit dispensary! We need to start one! The price of weed must drop!

Thank you guys for posting, and helping to defend the idea that a real non-profit dispensary is the way to go. A dispensary where the owner makes no more than 15-20 k a year + housing, and the profits go to only the most effective and demanding and righteous charities that cause positive changes to humanity

Why should someone who runs a coop/collective have to earn what is basicly poverty level income?I'm all for non profit coop/collectives but 15-20K are you kidding?Have you ever been to California????$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Ipsissimus]

Why are you winking? The dictionary cleary defines profit as "the excess of returns over expenditure in a transaction or series of transactions".

If you put that excess into your salary it's still a profit. Just because you call it your salary doesn't make it not a profit.

non profits still have to pay their employee's salaries. The amount of which is arbitrary, as evidenced by PETA. I winked because I was not serious. duh.

I am making a serious point about how companies that claim to be non profits, yet use their profits to pay exorbitant salaries, are hardly non profit. If I formed a non profit corporation, and set my salary at a billion dollars, there would never be any profit. A business is made up of it's employees, and it's owners. Owners can pay themselves an arbitrary salary. You could start a non profit porn store, pay yourself 250k a year, and put all profits over your salary back into the business, with the mission of spreading porn to the masses. If the business becomes more profitable, award yourself a raise. In theory. Follow me?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

non profits still have to pay their employee's salaries. The amount of which is arbitrary, as evidenced by PETA. I winked because I was not serious. duh.

I am making a serious point about how companies that claim to be non profits, yet use their profits to pay exorbitant salaries, are hardly non profit. If I formed a non profit corporation, and set my salary at a billion dollars, there would never be any profit. A business is made up of it's employees, and it's owners. Owners can pay themselves an arbitrary salary. You could start a non profit porn store, pay yourself 250k a year, and put all profits over your salary back into the business, with the mission of spreading porn to the masses. If the business becomes more profitable, award yourself a raise. In theory. Follow me?

Exactly right. I was just trying to show people that NFP's and CHARITYs are a little more than what they might have expected. It is a large task to run such an operation like Red Cross or less importantly PETA, but still that is a large amount of work that can not go unrewarded. Those six figure salarys are really quite meek in comparison to any other high level exectuive running a similar operation....

 

[mrdizzle]

I love how everyone bitches about how $$$ medical pot is, without realizing they are charging the same prices as the streets, but have 2000% more overhead.

most landlords triple the rent for clubs, employees, insurance, ect. NOT TO MENTION THE RISK INVOVLED WITH RUNNING A CLUB, ie federal prision terms. the growers share that risk so they deserve every dollar they get. without a potental profit there wouldnt be enough meds to put in the clubs, because few people like to do something federally illegal for the fun of it

if people really want to drop the prices, go buy a light and grow your own, Im soo over people bitching about $$ of pot in a club, people need to put a period in that and move on with their lives

 

[Sir_Nugget]

I love how everyone bitches about how $$$ medical pot is, without realizing they are charging the same prices as the streets, but have 2000% more overhead.

most landlords triple the rent for clubs, employees, insurance, ect. NOT TO MENTION THE RISK INVOVLED WITH RUNNING A CLUB, ie federal prision terms. the growers share that risk so they deserve every dollar they get. without a potental profit there wouldnt be enough meds to put in the clubs, because few people like to do something federally illegal for the fun of it

if people really want to drop the prices, go buy a light and grow your own, Im soo over people bitching about $$ of pot in a club, people need to put a period in that and move on with their lives

This thread has more to do with opening a real non-profit dispensary... and how that real non-profit could change the industry.

Anyone think that what i'm saying is wrong? I mean I havn't snooped into any dispensaries books, but I'm thinkin there aren't too many real non-profits.

 

[Ipsissimus]

continuing on profit/non-profit disparity (apologies if derailing a bit)

whether or not these high level executives DESERVE their salary, if you want to attract top level talent (almost always driven by financial profit) you would need to comparably compensate (for both for profit/non profit).

when you are operating a business where a new drill bit cost 700 MILLION, a stupid decision by an exec could quickly cost billions of dollars. they pay the salary not because they deserve it, but because of what they might lose without 'em.

kind of like how stars on "the hills" (for you MTV babies) get paid 100K per episode. Not because they have talent, but because of how they are integral to the story line, and much money they'd lose if the show went kaput.

seems to me it is only greed that could drive these salaries so high. If someone was willing to work for less, the company would be more than happy to pay them less.

meanwhile the top 1% of wealthy people in the US has more money than the entire lower 90% combined...that means if we were to eliminate the top 1% of wealth, the lower 90% of our population could more than double their wealth. I don't think limits should be placed on wealth, but I think the system has been corrupted by it.

so while a non profit might be justified paying a high salary to attract top talent, and still be worthwhile to their bottom line, it serves as a good example of the wide-sweeping problems within the current financial system.

 

[CalcioErba2004]

Why should someone who runs a coop/collective have to earn what is basicly poverty level income?I'm all for non profit coop/collectives but 15-20K are you kidding?Have you ever been to California????$$$$$$$$$$$$

Exactly. It's expensive as hell to live here, the recession hit here the hardest, jobs are getting scarce, businesses are closing left and right and people are moving away. Fires burn shit and it costs us money. There is no water and it costs us money. Taxes are through the roof here! There is no way I could live on 15-20K, I was struggling at 38K a year. To live comfortably in Cali you need to be making 2500 to 3K a month in your pocket after taxes. There is no way anyone would run a business, non-profit or not its a business, and starve to death slowly because they can't pay living expenses.

Now me personally I would give to charity and do local community work and fund community gardens and youth centers and stuff like that but Im still gonna maximize profits while doing it to live as fat as possible. I'm trying to take care of myself and my family. I want to leave them something if something happens to me. As fucked up as it is, money makes the world wake up every morning and stay awake at night.

 

[Pythagllio]

that means if we were to eliminate the top 1% of wealth, the lower 90% of our population could more than double their wealth.

This doesn't actually work. First, if you eliminate the top 1% of wealth it's gone, nobody benefits. Unless you are talking about taking it away by force and redistributing it. Regardless, it is wholly untrue that people with less would have more if people with more had less. There is not a fixed and finite amount of wealth to be divided. Everyone has the opportunity to create wealth, and to make the pie bigger. If you want to be a success, you need to add to the pie, not try to take a slice away from someone who has done so.

 

[Danknuggler]

What does everyone think of forming a Fair Trade Agricutlural Cooperative?A model such as this would benefit growers/producers and patients/consumers.

 

[Ipsissimus]

Disclaimer: While I am fascinated by the ideas behind economics, my understanding is far from complete, and many ideas I have are my own. If I'm wrong, I'd love to know why. Moving away from the barter system and to theoretical intangible goods makes things more complicated than they would seem.

There are two ways to accumulate wealth: Create it. Or take it. Our system is rank with people taking it, at the expense of others. It's so ironic the way people defend capitalism, when it has become exactly what they are so ardently opposed to - unfair redistribution of wealth. I am not saying we should redistribute wealth by force. I am saying that are current system, while wildly effective initially, has become twisted to ensure the wealthy stay that way. There's a pretty forceful distribution of wealth, IMO.

There is not a fixed and finite amount of wealth

True, but money determines the ratios of the distribution of wealth at any given moment. Only the gov't can create money. The value of the money is determined by the ratio of it to whatever we consider worthwhile.

Because we represent material wealth with money, if someone has 90% of the money, they control 90% of what we value as worthwhile. No? Seriously, I'm asking.

Capitalism can be win/win, but much of the absurd wealth is created from win/lose. I can give you so many examples of how the absurdly rich created their wealth by taking it's silly. America as a whole is not exempt either - our lifestyle is made possible by taking advantage of the rest of the world.

In fact, I challenge anyone to prove that one person can accumulate monetary wealth, without others becoming more poor.

 

[zenoonez]

Disclaimer: While I am fascinated by the ideas behind economics, my understanding is far from complete, and many ideas I have are my own. If I'm wrong, I'd love to know why. Moving away from the barter system and to theoretical intangible goods makes things more complicated than they would seem.

There are two ways to accumulate wealth: Create it. Or take it. Our system is rank with people taking it, at the expense of others. It's so ironic the way people defend capitalism, when it has become exactly what they are so ardently opposed to - unfair redistribution of wealth. I am not saying we should redistribute wealth by force. I am saying that are current system, while wildly effective initially, has become twisted to ensure the wealthy stay that way. There's a pretty forceful distribution of wealth, IMO.



True, but money determines the ratios of the distribution of wealth at any given moment. Only the gov't can create money. The value of the money is determined by the ratio of it to whatever we consider worthwhile.

Because we represent material wealth with money, if someone has 90% of the money, they control 90% of what we value as worthwhile. No? Seriously, I'm asking.

Capitalism can be win/win, but much of the absurd wealth is created from win/lose. I can give you so many examples of how the absurdly rich created their wealth by taking it's silly. America as a whole is not exempt either - our lifestyle is made possible by taking advantage of the rest of the world.

In fact, I challenge anyone to prove that one person can accumulate monetary wealth, without others becoming more poor.

How do you make money without someone else losing money? Become the United States mint. Otherwise you are selling a product which means that you provide a good or service which is then paid for by the person receiving it which means that they are immediately less well off because they don't posses that money anymore, they only have a good or service in its place. I don't see what is wrong with this model at all. But then again I don't see any problem with making money off of mj either.

 

[Kola Radical]

Once it's legal, the price will come way down. I predict.

 

[Danknuggler]

What does everyone think of forming a Fair Trade Agricutlural Cooperative?A model such as this would benefit growers/producers and patients/consumers.

I just wanted to bump this.Has anyone else really looked into Ag Coops very deeply?If we could form something as solid as any apple, almond,or coffee coops do and get some fair trade cert. in place it could really be seen as legitimate as it can get and everybody benefits.

 

[PharmaCan]

How do you make money without someone else losing money? Become the United States mint. Otherwise you are selling a product which means that you provide a good or service which is then paid for by the person receiving it which means that they are immediately less well off because they don't posses that money anymore, they only have a good or service in its place. I don't see what is wrong with this model at all. But then again I don't see any problem with making money off of mj either.

Here's a few examples for you.

The auto insurance industry. Auto insurance, at the urging of the auto insurance industry, is mandatory in most states. That's all fine and good, but auto insurance premiums have risen astronomically since it became mandatory and insurance company profits have soared. We, the consumer, have no say in this matter, as coverage is mandated by the government and rates are mandated by the insurance companies. (When the government mandates that the citizenry must purchase something, they should automatically mandate a very small percentage of profit to the companies supplying that service.)

Illegal immigration. If it weren't for illegal immigration, your, mine and every other wage earner's wages would be double what they are now. Politicians allow illegal immigration because the people who contribute to their coffers want lower paid workers. The rich get extraordinarily richer, while the American worker gets screwed.

The military/industrial complex. The U.S. gov't forcibly takes money from people, in the form of taxes, then uses that money to wage war. The average person suffers to make their contribution to the war effort, while those supplying the war materials become fabulously wealthy. Any war that is righteous enough to wage should be righteous enough to wage without profit. Take the profit out of war and you'll see a whole different attitude about it when politicians can no longer get big contributions from the military/industrial complex.

Finally, you have the bankers, brokers and financiers that make incredible wealth from just from arranging financing for the above.

People and companies who actually make things trade money for the goods we use. If I buy a car or a house I have something of utility or value for the dollars I parted with.

There's nothing wrong with capitalism as long as everyone is competing on a level playing field. That is not the case in America anymore. Corrupt politicians have used the power of government to give an unfair advantage to those who corrupt them.

PC

 

[icon20]

If you opened a real non profit dispensary and sold at very discounted prices I feel even though you put yourself in a good light, with the non-profit label, you could be shut down fairly soon. Who's to say people won't take advantage of those prices and go sell it to some buddies for the normal price to make a few dollars.

 

[Ocean Grown]

I just wanted to bump this.Has anyone else really looked into Ag Coops very deeply?If we could form something as solid as any apple, almond,or coffee coops do and get some fair trade cert. in place it could really be seen as legitimate as it can get and everybody benefits.

The State AG has said a Not for Profit Ag Coop meets his definition as described in his guidelines for Prosecutors. In fact, many in the socal area are going this route.

People should consider this form of NP. Had I have to do it over, I would have gone this route over our current NP incorporation.

Good reminder of the options, Danknuggler.

 

[Ocean Grown]

Here is a cool li'l tidbit I just noticed...
I was looking on the IRS site concerning Tax Exempt Non Profits...and I see this, under a list of Tax Exempt Orgs...

http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=96184,00.html

I am not a Lawyer, so I may be off base here....anybody with some real knowledge about this??
The reason I was looking, was because I find it funny that you need a sellers permit for weed...but you are not s'pose to be selling it!!

Jerry says YES!