Phos deficiency?? Need help, whole plants/garden looks bad

[Closet_Grower]

How long has this problem been going on?
1 week
What STRAIN are you growing?
auto AK47 and White Dwarf
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
seed
What is the age of your plants?
5 weeks old
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
since germination
How Tall are the plants?
10-11 inches
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
early flower
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
none
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
almost 2 gallon....6 liters
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
Sunshine Organic Mix... not sure of mix but all perlite and spag moss, ect.
What Nutrient's are you using?
AN 3 part with F1, B-52, Big Bud
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
light blooming program... 2,5ml per 2 liters of each... 5ml of big bud and b-52
How often are you feeding?
once a week, just water other times
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
1 feed ago
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
mircro, grow, bloom, additives
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
700
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
5.5-6
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
strips, i know... poor
How often are you watering?
every 3-4 days
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
fed yesterday, last feed was almost a week ago
What size bulb are you using?
2x 42watt + 7x 26 watt CFL for 266w total 40cm x 40cm area
What is the distance to the canopy?
2-3 inches
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
50%
What is the canopy temperature?
24-26c
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
day 26c night 20c
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
40cfm intake....100cfm exhaust
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
40cfm intake with passive vent intake... 100cfm muffin fan exhaust. fan blowing on lights
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
light breeze
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
no
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
soft
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
tap
Are you using water from a water softener?
no
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
no
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
no
Are plant's infected with pest's?
no

heres some pics.... I think its a P def one one and a K def on the other... any ideas guys? Im a new grower and bumming pretty hard on this....
notice the difference in problems between the closer plant and the one in the back

these spots are covering the whole plant... I think maybe a K def??? any ideas??

I have not been feeding them alot, maybe thats the prob.... they looked great until just a couple days ago, and I held off feeding till 3rd week or so, then I fed once and watered later when needed, that puts me to yesterday when I fed them for a second time only in their 4-5 week life... severe def problems???

Im new to this but trying really hard, any help would be appreciated.

thanks.

 

[RetroGrow]

Looks like it might be a bit of fungus/rust, but difficult to tell.

 

[Closet_Grower]

Looks like it might be a bit of fungus/rust, but difficult to tell.

could you elaborate a little more.... how could I be getting this?

 

[MynameStitch]

AN 3 part with F1, B-52, Big Bud

You listening to the directions on the back of each for feeding?

All of these once a week?

Your pH is low, your plants leaves is getting twisted due to pH problems for one.
Do you know the PPM/TDS of your tap water?

Even though you think your not feeding them enough..... the plants tell another story; they look like they are getting a little burned, even though they have been in the mixture that long, the nutes you are using is a lot...... AN goes way overboard with all there additives, I bet it's the B52 that is causing the problem, I used both big bud and b 52... b52 is kinda like super thrive. has a lot of minerals and vitamins and cannabis only uses a certain amount and then the rest stay in the soil and can build up......

I need to know the doses you are using for each nutrient posted below:
AN 3 part with F1, B-52, Big Bud

your using the 3 part system which has a complete system, your doubling up on phosphorus by using the amount of big bud alone that you listed.... you will most likely end up needing to flush your mixture out a bit to remove the build up.... and when you do your pH will rise which is what you want, you don't want it at the pH you got now..... needs to be in the 6.0 range and stay there.

 

[ibjamming]

I have to agree with Stitch here... I cringed when I saw how strong a mixt you were giving that babe... 5 weeks old and you're feeding full strength? Actually more than full strength. Nothing but water for a couple of weeks... Throw some dolomite lime on that soil too...it'll help.

 

[Closet_Grower]

ok thanks guys....

The first feed I gave them was very low strength, with good waterings in between, and fed them after week 3.

When feeding the White Dwarf already showed signs of a def. but both AK's were good.

after the feeding all was well and the dwarf looked better than before...

I watered again, then the problem started a couple days ago, right before being due for another feed.

So I fed them last night when I took those pics so the dose I included in the Q&A was the current dose I just gave them.

I was following the AN calculator "light bloom program"... and undershooting a bit.
for week 2 of flowering they suggested a ppm of 800 or so, but i gave them a 600 ppm dose.

I woke up today to see little change in the tent... the rusty red spotting is creeping up the whole AK and the other Ak has the grey spots with curling crispy leave going on, and the dwarf still has the rusty red spotting with yellowing, but all bud spots and buds look fine.

I have bought some epsom salts, would this be of any help with my current situation?

Much thanks for all the help

 

[ibjamming]

All those numbers are good for hydroponics but not for soil... They already have some food.

 

[Closet_Grower]

All those numbers are good for hydroponics but not for soil... They already have some food.

I have them in Sunshine organic soilless mix... I thought that soil would only hold nutrients for about 3 weeks....

so I should probobly flush them... would epsom salts help the foliage?

what ph should my water be when flushing ( if i should)

im using test strips to check ph levels... im broke, i know i need a real tester...

 

[Closet_Grower]

AN 3 part with F1, B-52, Big Bud

You listening to the directions on the back of each for feeding?

All of these once a week?

Your pH is low, your plants leaves is getting twisted due to pH problems for one.
Do you know the PPM/TDS of your tap water?

Even though you think your not feeding them enough..... the plants tell another story; they look like they are getting a little burned, even though they have been in the mixture that long, the nutes you are using is a lot...... AN goes way overboard with all there additives, I bet it's the B52 that is causing the problem, I used both big bud and b 52... b52 is kinda like super thrive. has a lot of minerals and vitamins and cannabis only uses a certain amount and then the rest stay in the soil and can build up......

I need to know the doses you are using for each nutrient posted below:
AN 3 part with F1, B-52, Big Bud

your using the 3 part system which has a complete system, your doubling up on phosphorus by using the amount of big bud alone that you listed.... you will most likely end up needing to flush your mixture out a bit to remove the build up.... and when you do your pH will rise which is what you want, you don't want it at the pH you got now..... needs to be in the 6.0 range and stay there.

thanks for the reply stitch,

ya I used all of them when I fed them, 1.5ml per 2L of all

the ppm of my tap water is 30... measured with a digi pen.

how should I measure the soil ph/run off with these stupid test strips... yellow strip color means more acidic? 5.5 or so? and a greener strip would mean closer to 6? it has directions on it but all the results tend to blend together....

thanks again for all the help

 

[Closet_Grower]

bump

 

[Closet_Grower]

bumpiddy bump

 

[dyno]

Orange is 6.0, yellow is 6.5, 7.0 and 7.5 are 2 shades of green.. as Stitch says you want your soiless mix at a ph of 6.0. Those spots and twisting are a result of too low of a ph and lockout occurring imho. Ph drops are much better than strips too.

Watering your plants with plain ph'd water for next 2-3 waterings should fix your ph prob and flush your mix of salt/nute buildup. Make sure the 1st is done with run-off. Maybe Stitch will correct me if I'm wrong...

Had ph of 4.5 myself where my plant was drinking more water than nutes so had to water 5lt, non ph'd - 7.8 tap water with molasses over course of 3 days with runoff and now my runoff is 6.2.

 

[Closet_Grower]

Orange is 6.0, yellow is 6.5, 7.0 and 7.5 are 2 shades of green.. as Stitch says you want your soiless mix at a ph of 6.0. Those spots and twisting are a result of too low of a ph and lockout occurring imho. Ph drops are much better than strips too.

Watering your plants with plain ph'd water for next 2-3 waterings should fix your ph prob and flush your mix of salt/nute buildup. Make sure the 1st is done with run-off. Maybe Stitch will correct me if I'm wrong...

Had ph of 4.5 myself where my plant was drinking more water than nutes so had to water 5lt, non ph'd - 7.8 tap water with molasses over course of 3 days with runoff and now my runoff is 6.2.

ok thanks Dyno, Im going to flush them now with a shit load of ph'd water, 7.0 is good right? that is neutral right?

what do you mean by 1st done with run-off?

Is it ok to flush even though my soil is wet?

thanks again

 

[MynameStitch]

Orange is 6.0, yellow is 6.5, 7.0 and 7.5 are 2 shades of green.. as Stitch says you want your soiless mix at a ph of 6.0. Those spots and twisting are a result of too low of a ph and lockout occurring imho. Ph drops are much better than strips too.

Watering your plants with plain ph'd water for next 2-3 waterings should fix your ph prob and flush your mix of salt/nute buildup. Make sure the 1st is done with run-off. Maybe Stitch will correct me if I'm wrong...

Had ph of 4.5 myself where my plant was drinking more water than nutes so had to water 5lt, non ph'd - 7.8 tap water with molasses over course of 3 days with runoff and now my runoff is 6.2.

You are right, that is a part of it; the low pH is due to the high amounts of nutrients in the soil, that is why I said he has to flush out his plants to raise the pH of his soil

You just pretty much said it differently than I did.

NOrmally when you flush though, pH adjusting it is not a good idea, because you could throw the pH off even more; if you add pH adjusters it could lower the pH too much and with his grow he is trying to raise it up, so if he used pH adjusting he could end up getting confused his pH is low with the high amounts of nutes, so if he used it; it could give him the wrong idea and when his pH is still reading low he may think there is still high amounts of nutes in there; to be on the safe side don't use pH adjusting when you flush; it will only continue the problem of throwing off the pH, you only want to flush the water with just plain water and then the next time you water pH adjust it if needed..... with the mixture he is using and the lime, he should not have to be adjusting his pH; he already has pH adjusting in the mixture; I would not adjust the water period with the way your mixture is made.

Either way, your going to have to flush them and they will show over watering from the flush, go ahead and flush them out, use I would use 1 1/2 gallons of water per gallon size pot to properly flush her out.

 

[dyno]

lol, I didn't mean to say ph'd water, meant non-ph'd , like I said in my example beneath it....

....non ph'd - 7.8 tap water with molasses...

Thanks for the correction Stitch. "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to MynameStitch again."

 

[Closet_Grower]

ok thanks guys,

I flushed an hour ago, before reading these posts, I gotta run to work soon...

My tap water is reading 5.5 to 6.0 if even.... so I used a little ph up to get it to 6.8 or 7 area.... I hope I didn't mess up big time... I wonder why my tap water is so low??

the run off was super yellow until I was close to being done then it was nice and clear.

the run off ph was super acidic in the beginning, making the strip almost white!! But by the end the strips were still yellow but with a hint of green.

I will water again when they need it with tap water adjusted, does this sound right?

Thanks for all the help, I hope this flush, and me understanding Ph, helps my plants out

CG

 

[Closet_Grower]

oh by the way my strips measure yellow as 5.5 to 7 being the first shade of all green, 6.8 is greeny/yellow, which was my aim. ph 8 was blue on strips, never got a reading like that...

 

[MynameStitch]

ooo my bad, I missed that

Thanks for pointing that out to me

 

[Closet_Grower]

thanks for all the help Stitch and dyno!!

do you guys think I should just feed water for the next little bit and add Ph UP to my tap water before watering to reach the desired ph level?

I will post some pics to show the difference after the flush

 

[Dirtfinger]

Looks like it might be a bit of fungus/rust, but difficult to tell.

What he said - judging from the pics and my experience with it.