Organic question??

[Brazilianfire]

I'm very new to organics and I want to take advantage of the natural growing capabilities and great yield of indoor organic growing. I have pro mix and Perlite in 2 gal. pots. I'm using Foxfarm granular grow/Bloom nutrients. It's the Marine Cuisine by Foxfarm. Im curious, what other additives can I use for bloom? Do i truly need any extra? Any and all "professional" opinion is welcome. Also what is a Organic tea, and how is it made and used? Thanks mates.

 

[habeeb]

tea, I suggest a KIS brewer to simplify things unless your a DIY guy

I think the FFOF MC is not "organic" nor is most FF products

for bloom you can use, seaweed, rock dust, molasses , humic, fulvic, tea, and some other stuff not on my mind

 

[MobbDeep]

IMVHO your not doing a "true" organic grow..in a "true" organic grow,the medium is teeming with beneficial microorganisms and fungi which colonize the medium and roots..and whatever ferts you add also feed the microorganisms as much as it feed the plant..you can feed organic nutes,like fish fert,but if the medium is not bioloclaly active,then its not a full organic grow,like the pros do it..so basically you want a soil teeming with life+organic nutes=full organic grow

1.to add micros to the soil,coir,peat,etc..add lots of compost,earthworm castings,guano,etc..this is what adds all the microorganisms,ESPECIALLY the compost and worm castings..you can also add mycorrizae powder..this adds the fungi,which is EXTREMELY helpful..let the mixture "cook" in a warm location,and keep it moist..in about a week,the entire soil will be colonized with all the micro life..now you got your medium!

2.you can feed the micro life with mollases,this keeps them teeming and breeding..use bloodmeal,guano,castings,compost,bonemeal,manure..pretty much anything organic to feed..i suggest making teas..feed them a worm castings/compost TEA atleast once a week..this will keep microlife up..since the tea inoculates the soil everytime you water..

3.dont use water with chlorine,it kills them

4.keep reusing the sol..this is PREMIUM soil..no sinse in wasting it..just "shape " it uop between grows by adding more compost,castings,and letting it "rot" about a week..

5.last thing,when the soil is "cooking" MAKE SURE TO KEEP MOVING IT EVERY DAY..if not,the bad bacteria will take over,and itll be anerobic and STINK..the fungi and bacteria we need love oxygen..whil the bad bacteria dont ..

 

[CT Guy]

Click on the "Organic Soil Reference Library."

Inside you will find a bunch of good information. In regards to teas, there are 2 stickies. "A Basic Compost Tea Guide" and "Tea Article."

I suggest reading at least the 1st posts in both to get some good perspectives from people who have been using teas for a while. If you have any unanswered questions at that point, just start a new thread and we'll all chime in!

Cheers,
CT

 

[Clackamas Coot]

I'm very new to organics and I want to take advantage of the natural growing capabilities and great yield of indoor organic growing. I have pro mix and Perlite in 2 gal. pots. I'm using Foxfarm granular grow/Bloom nutrients. It's the Marine Cuisine by Foxfarm. Im curious, what other additives can I use for bloom? Do i truly need any extra? Any and all "professional" opinion is welcome. Also what is a Organic tea, and how is it made and used? Thanks mates.

Brazillianfire

According to the label, Marine Cuisine is for 'Evergreens, Acid Loving Plants & Vegetables' - for whatever that's worth to you.

And Habeeb is correct, this specific product is not organic. Fox Farm's does have some organic dry fertilizers in their 'Happy Frog' product lines.

HTH

CC

 

[Brazilianfire]

thanks for all the great info. I will look at the compost tea' further. I will also check the happy frog line.

 

[Brazilianfire]

IMVHO your not doing a "true" organic grow..in a "true" organic grow,the medium is teeming with beneficial microorganisms and fungi which colonize the medium and roots..and whatever ferts you add also feed the microorganisms as much as it feed the plant..you can feed organic nutes,like fish fert,but if the medium is not bioloclaly active,then its not a full organic grow,like the pros do it..so basically you want a soil teeming with life+organic nutes=full organic grow

1.to add micros to the soil,coir,peat,etc..add lots of compost,earthworm castings,guano,etc..this is what adds all the microorganisms,ESPECIALLY the compost and worm castings..you can also add mycorrizae powder..this adds the fungi,which is EXTREMELY helpful..let the mixture "cook" in a warm location,and keep it moist..in about a week,the entire soil will be colonized with all the micro life..now you got your medium!

2.you can feed the micro life with mollases,this keeps them teeming and breeding..use bloodmeal,guano,castings,compost,bonemeal,manure..pretty much anything organic to feed..i suggest making teas..feed them a worm castings/compost TEA atleast once a week..this will keep microlife up..since the tea inoculates the soil everytime you water..

3.dont use water with chlorine,it kills them

4.keep reusing the sol..this is PREMIUM soil..no sinse in wasting it..just "shape " it uop between grows by adding more compost,castings,and letting it "rot" about a week..

5.last thing,when the soil is "cooking" MAKE SURE TO KEEP MOVING IT EVERY DAY..if not,the bad bacteria will take over,and itll be anerobic and STINK..the fungi and bacteria we need love oxygen..whil the bad bacteria dont ..

Thank you for the great info! Your very smart with this.

 

[HortProOrganics]

IMVHO your not doing a "true" organic grow..in a "true" organic grow,the medium is teeming with beneficial microorganisms and fungi which colonize the medium and roots..and whatever ferts you add also feed the microorganisms as much as it feed the plant..you can feed organic nutes,like fish fert,but if the medium is not bioloclaly active,then its not a full organic grow,like the pros do it..so basically you want a soil teeming with life+organic nutes=full organic grow

1.to add micros to the soil,coir,peat,etc..add lots of compost,earthworm castings,guano,etc..this is what adds all the microorganisms,ESPECIALLY the compost and worm castings..you can also add mycorrizae powder..this adds the fungi,which is EXTREMELY helpful..let the mixture "cook" in a warm location,and keep it moist..in about a week,the entire soil will be colonized with all the micro life..now you got your medium!

2.you can feed the micro life with mollases,this keeps them teeming and breeding..use bloodmeal,guano,castings,compost,bonemeal,manure..pretty much anything organic to feed..i suggest making teas..feed them a worm castings/compost TEA atleast once a week..this will keep microlife up..since the tea inoculates the soil everytime you water..

3.dont use water with chlorine,it kills them

4.keep reusing the sol..this is PREMIUM soil..no sinse in wasting it..just "shape " it uop between grows by adding more compost,castings,and letting it "rot" about a week..

5.last thing,when the soil is "cooking" MAKE SURE TO KEEP MOVING IT EVERY DAY..if not,the bad bacteria will take over,and itll be anerobic and STINK..the fungi and bacteria we need love oxygen..whil the bad bacteria dont ..

and don't forget Trichoderma. Love my teas, my meals, and my fungi/bacteria. Conventional fertilizers need not apply on my watch, jmo.

 

[etinarcadiaego]

and don't forget Trichoderma. Love my teas, my meals, and my fungi/bacteria. Conventional fertilizers need not apply on my watch, jmo.

Quick question for you man. Don't mean to thread jack and I hope we can all learn a little here, but I recently bought a product called "Plant Success Granular" which contains both mycorrhizal spores AND Trichoderma spores, and somone here suggested I not use it as Trichoderma eats/consumes mycorrhizal colonies! Is this true? I know when growing shrooms I had to worry about Trich, but can the two thrive together in the root zone, or will they compete and wind up being detrimental to one another?


If it matters it was granular, and suggested adding 3 tsps per 5 gallons of soil, and further instructed to use up to 3X the suggested amount for better results. Thanks for any advice you can offer!

Here is the product description:

Tricoderma and endo- and ectomycorrhizal fungi spores are the special ingredients in all-natural Plant Success Granular.These beneficial fungi are combined with kelp meal, humus, vitamins and amino acids to encourage spore germination. Plant Success Granular improves soil structure, enhances root development and assists with nutrient and water uptake and retention. The result is stronger, healthier plants and increased overall yields. Use Plant Success Granular at a rate of five pounds to one cubic yard of soil for best results.

 

[HortProOrganics]

Quick question for you man. Don't mean to thread jack and I hope we can all learn a little here, but I recently bought a product called "Plant Success Granular" which contains both mycorrhizal spores AND Trichoderma spores, and somone here suggested I not use it as Trichoderma eats/consumes mycorrhizal colonies! Is this true? I know when growing shrooms I had to worry about Trich, but can the two thrive together in the root zone, or will they compete and wind up being detrimental to one another?


If it matters it was granular, and suggested adding 3 tsps per 5 gallons of soil, and further instructed to use up to 3X the suggested amount for better results. Thanks for any advice you can offer!


Here is the product description:

Tricoderma and endo- and ectomycorrhizal fungi spores are the special ingredients in all-natural Plant Success Granular.These beneficial fungi are combined with kelp meal, humus, vitamins and amino acids to encourage spore germination. Plant Success Granular improves soil structure, enhances root development and assists with nutrient and water uptake and retention. The result is stronger, healthier plants and increased overall yields. Use Plant Success Granular at a rate of five pounds to one cubic yard of soil for best results.

It was always my understanding, and never had a problem, that certain specie of Trichoderma along with Endo/Ecto Myco, work together, not just with root formation, uptake of water and nutrients, but with pathogen control, and other baddies in the soil. Sure, I could see certain specie on both sides, even Bacillus, compete when the soil is not as lively, or when the soil is invaded which can weed out certain populations.

Again, I have never had a problem with Trichoderma koningii and Trichoderma harzianum, which you can find in a great deal of products.

 

[MobbDeep]

I too use Plan Success Soluble..I buy if straigh from the manufacturer which is a long time veteran mycologist..whos a legend in the magic mushroom communities..

 

[etinarcadiaego]

I too use Plan Success Soluble..I buy if straigh from the manufacturer which is a long time veteran mycologist..whos a legend in the magic mushroom communities..

Thanks for the replys guys, I really appreciate the info. . .

Will the spores colonize my entire medium? Just wondering . . . . I saw a pic somewhere on this site of someone who had a portion of his medium colonized at the end of flower, looked just like the "jars" of mycelium once they've colonized when you use the the "PF TEK" to grow shrooms . . .

Do they need to colonize the entire medium (or any part of it) to be beneficial, or can they do their thing just free-floating about?

(Sorry, I don't know much about these beneficials yet . . . )

 

[vonforne]

I have been struggling lately with the term Organic. I do not know about you all but I think `Natural`would be a better description than Órganic

V

 

[MobbDeep]

Etina: Before I can help you,tell me Exactly what you have..do you have Plant Success GRANULAR or SOLUBLE..heres some info on both..

Plant Success Granular mycorrhizal granular inoculum consists of 10 carefully selected species of endomycorrhizae, ectomycorrhizae and tricoderma fungal species. A high quality biostimulant package containing kelp meal, humus, vitamins and amino acids is also added to improve mycorrhizal germination and effectiveness. Plant Success Granular is a granular material containing mycorrhizal fungi that colonize roots and extend into the surrounding soil forming an essential link between plant and soil resources. About 90% of the worlds plant species form mycorrhiza with these beneficial ectomycorrhizal fungi. Working together, beneficial mycorrhizal and tricoderma fungi expand into the surrounding soil and greatly increase the root’s ability to absorb water, nutrients, improve yields and plant health.

The goal is to create physical contact between the roots and inoculant. Inoculant can be banded under seed, worked into seed beds, placed under cuttings, blended into potting soil, or sprinkled near roots at transplant time. Some examples of inoculation practices and rates include:

Agriculture/Restoration- Inoculum can be banded in rows or side dressed before or during planting at 40 pounds per acre. Use 80 pounds per acre to broadcast or rototill before planting.
Nurseries- Inoculum can be mixed in planting soil before/during filling cavities, pots, trays. May be mixed with mechanical equipment that allows passage of ¼ inch (7 mm) or larger particles: For propagation use 5 pounds per cubic yard.
For turf-Apply during installation or aerification of turf. Use 2 pounds per 1000 sq. ft.
For planting- apply in furrow 1 teaspoon per row foot; cuttings-1/2 teaspoon under each cutting, potted transplants- Use 2-3 tablespoons per gallon planting size. Ball and Burlap plantings use 2 to 3 ounces per inch of stem caliper.









Plant Success Soluble is a soil drench for porous soil and contains 13 carefully selected mycorrhizal fungi, 2 tricoderma species and 17 bacterial species well-suited to a variety of soils, climates and plants. Plant Success Soluble contains mycorrhizal fungi that colonize plant roots and extend the root system into the surrounding soil greatly enhancing the absorptive surface area of root systems, forming an essential link between plant and soil and producing seedlings of the highest quality. Also included is specially formulated natural root biostimulant. The plant enjoys improved nutrient and water uptake, and superior field performance. Plant Success Soluble can be stored in a cool dry area for 24 months without loss of viability.

Directions for use:

Plant Success Soluble can be watered into existing plants, seed beds, propagation trays, watered on roots at transplant time or injected into soil for mature plants.

Existing landscape trees and shrubs- Mix 6 ounces in 100 gallons of water or 12 ounces in 200 gallons of water. Use spray pattern for deep root feeding. Inject ½ gallon per hole 2 times a year or more frequently for stressed plants. Can be used any time root systems are active. May be mixed with mechanical equipment that allows passage of No. 50 screens (300 microns) or larger particles.

B&B plantings- Mix 6 ounces in 100 gallons of water or 12 ounces in 200 gallons of water. Spray or pour on the root balls until saturated just before backfilling.

Nurseries- Mix 1 pound with 200 gallons of water. Use as soil drench in porous media. Each pound treats 2000 square ft. of nursery area for small plants or 4000 square ft. of nursery area for plants 1 gallon size or larger.






So as far as I know,with granular you have to make sure itll come in contact with the roots..and soluable,you just water the plants like a tea..

 

[Brazilianfire]

wow mobbDeep, you really know your stuff...

 

[etinarcadiaego]

wow mobbDeep, you really know your stuff...

Yah I'll second that!!

Thanks for the reply MobbDeep, I have the granular product you described, the one that needs to come in contact with the roots. I mixed into the soil (when I transplanted). Thanks again, very helpful!


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to MobbDeep again.

 

[anonymousgrower]

I really need to get me some mycorrhizal powder shit, atm i've got everything for a real good organic grow except that.. guess my first crop will have to suffice without it.

 

[magiccannabus]

Espoma bag fertilizers usually have "bio-tone" in them, which includes mycorrhizae. Look for it at the top of the bag.

 

[MobbDeep]

I really need to get me some mycorrhizal powder shit, atm i've got everything for a real good organic grow except that.. guess my first crop will have to suffice without it.

Mycorrize is jsut a bonus..as logn as you mix plenty compost and/or worm castings..youv got benificail organism..a good tip is making a compost TEA...the thing with a tes is that it is aerated..good bacteria like plenty oxygen..while the bad one basically get killed with oxygen..get a bucket..fill with ro water..then throw some compost/worm castings in there..then stick a air ctone in there..and bubble it for like 1-2 days..by now,the tea will ne clonized with plenty GOOD bacteria..but IF you dont aerate the tea..THEN itll colonize with BAD stinky bacteria..

your best friend in ORGANIC grows is good bacteria/fungi...also,the compost and worm castigns add HUMATES..with humic acid,they buffer ph..thats why ph is not AS important in organic grows..cus the humates and the humic acid they produce..