Purple Maxx and Gravity

[CTcultivator]

Here's some info on a commercial greenhouse product with the same active ingredient:

"BONZI"(Paclobutrazol) "For use on container-grown flower and bedding plants in greenhouses and shadehouses. Reduces internode elongation. Non phytotoxic when used as directed. Single or split applications may be applied. Apply as a spray or a drench. Works well on impatiens, geraniums, pot mums, pot freesias and hibiscus ( Fla. only ). Spray solutions are applied at the rate of 1 gallon per 200 sq. ft. of bench space. Drench application are applied at the rate .125-.25mg per pot. For foliar spray application, BONZI should be mixed with water to produce a final spray volume of 2 quarts/100 sq. ft. of bench space and sprayed uniformly across the area."

It's not exactly inexpensive ... $145 US per Quart.

Half-assed hormone hoo-doo can screw things up very quickly, so if you're going to try it, make sure it's on a "test" basis that won't threaten the rest of the grow. Hydro growers seem particularly susceptible to these products.

hey how are ya? anyway i am a salesman for most of the major greenhouse crop production products, soils, ferts, chems, and greenhouse design. i am also a grower myself. Bonzi is way expensive, florel is alot cheaper. the problem with either is it can stop flower production in its tracts. I get to try alot of stuff out and these 2 will end flowering all together. I like phosphoload personally for these issues. Just my opinion, have a good one

 

[HortProOrganics]

I will stick with my microbial soldier army, compost teas, dry meals, and other surprises.

Purple Maxx- Snake Oil, imo, yes
Products like these- Marketing gimmicks that create huge profits- yes
People that use these thinking that the product creates exceptional results-priceless!!!

Now, there are many products out there that help the flora and fauna out there, and I am not disputing that, but a healthy soil system, in this case, creates a healthy plant. Outdoor and indoor, I always choose my mighty organic supersoils and organic nutrients, most I make by hand, along with the help of critters..

In hydro, nutes following with a clean system will get your weight to a degree, and it can be pleasing to some, but not for me....even if it is 100% organic.

 

[habeeb]

Purple Maxx is amino acids. Gravity is a PK booster. Bushmaster is a paclobutrazol, the growth inhibitor. It is flashy and overpriced.

excellent info

 

[Clackamas Coot]

I will stick with my microbial soldier army, compost teas, dry meals, and other surprises.

Purple Maxx- Snake Oil, imo, yes
Products like these- Marketing gimmicks that create huge profits- yes
People that use these thinking that the product creates exceptional results-priceless!!!

Now, there are many products out there that help the flora and fauna out there, and I am not disputing that, but a healthy soil system, in this case, creates a healthy plant. Outdoor and indoor, I always choose my mighty organic supersoils and organic nutrients, most I make by hand, along with the help of critters..

In hydro, nutes following with a clean system will get your weight to a degree, and it can be pleasing to some, but not for me....even if it is 100% organic.

HortProOrganics

Humboldt County's Own Gravity

Said to contain:

0.75% Ascophyllum nodosum (sea kelp) extract (probably MaxiCrop vs. Acadian Sea Plant's Soluble Seaweed Powder)

0.01% Vitamin B1 (thiamine hydrochloride)

$24.95 for 8 oz.

Laughable, eh?

CC

 

[HortProOrganics]

HortProOrganics

Humboldt County's Own Gravity

Said to contain:

0.75% Ascophyllum nodosum (sea kelp) extract (probably MaxiCrop vs. Acadian Sea Plant's Soluble Seaweed Powder)

0.01% Vitamin B1 (thiamine hydrochloride)

$24.95 for 8 oz.

Laughable, eh?

CC

It is laughable. It is disturbing as well, for that one can make there own bio-activator supplement for under $10 US, and that includes endo myco, trichoderma, kelp meal, bat guano and other goodies for a stable soil structure. And for foliar, still, under $10, minus the bacteria of course( no sense of throwing good bacteria away for foliar apps). I still find the marketing gimmicks out there are so effective for the people that don't want to do their homework, or are just plain lazy. I am not knocking anyone's preference, but money is money, and if one wants to pay $24.95 for 8 oz for overrated super juice, go for it, by all means....I won't, and I will shake my head at that as well.....

I really need to get into the business of selling compost tea and dried bio-activator bags....

 

[Clackamas Coot]

It is laughable. It is disturbing as well, for that one can make there own bio-activator supplement for under $10 US, and that includes endo myco, trichoderma, kelp meal, bat guano and other goodies for a stable soil structure. And for foliar, still, under $10, minus the bacteria of course( no sense of throwing good bacteria away for foliar apps). I still find the marketing gimmicks out there are so effective for the people that don't want to do their homework, or are just plain lazy. I am not knocking anyone's preference, but money is money, and if one wants to pay $24.95 for 8 oz for overrated super juice, go for it, by all means....I won't, and I will shake my head at that as well.....

I really need to get into the business of selling compost tea and dried bio-activator bags....

Do you f*ckin' think?

BTW - organic farmer here in the Willamette Valley and a cannabis grower for over 33 years. 22 years growing under HID lights.

I 'think' that I may have learned a thing or two - or not!

LOL

Peace

CC

 

[HortProOrganics]

Do you f*ckin' think?

BTW - organic farmer here in the Willamette Valley and a cannabis grower for over 33 years. 22 years growing under HID lights.

I 'think' that I may have learned a thing or two - or not!

LOL

Peace

CC

I hear ya CC. Yea, I remember ya as well. We had a couple convo's, as I appreciate a fellow hort professional. I can't wait to move back up there....I miss the rain, and that doesn't hurt my growing either.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

HortProOrganics

I have a serious question about kelp meal and kelp extracts.

I use a seaweed extract that is organic and human food-grade extract from Acadian Seaplants out of Nova Scotia.

What's your opinion about kelp meal tea vs. soluble seaweed extract both as a 'nutrient' </snerk> vs. kelp meal tea?

I'm seriously interested for a number of reasons both as an ingredient in an aerated compost tea as well as a soil soak.

Thanks!

CC

 

[HortProOrganics]

HortProOrganics

I have a serious question about kelp meal and kelp extracts.

I use a seaweed extract that is organic and human food-grade extract from Acadian Seaplants out of Nova Scotia.

What's your opinion about kelp meal tea vs. soluble seaweed extract both as a 'nutrient' </snerk> vs. kelp meal tea?

I'm seriously interested for a number of reasons both as an ingredient in an aerated compost tea as well as a soil soak.

Thanks!


CC

I love these questions...

Alright, personally I like to use both dry form and liquid in my applications. My philosophy- you can never have enough kelp product.
Dry kelp meals are thrown in both my soil making, as well as in my aerated teas. It seems that the macro elements and the trace minerals boost really nice in the teas, when I use the dry meal to teas or soil making.

Liquid kelp- love it for foliar, and for soaking. Like I said, you cannot have enough. I enjoy using the liquid kelp along with my molasses and honey mixture with drench feeding for the soil app. The microbial life, along with the carbos, sugars, etc. from the additives, seems to balance out the longevity of the soil, and the plants will be partying it up. As well for foliar, I will always stick with liquid kelp, cause it is just easier to apply. Acadian has been a great product for me over the years, even in nursery applications.

I also find with the kelp application in teas, is that it works as a stimulant for even the uptake of the major elements, and regulates the trace minerals, as you would know. I just find it as an insurance policy for many reasons. Oh ya, and iodine....don't get me started.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Thanks for giving me 'science' for my long-held position that kelp (in any form) is the absolute best addition to any agriculture/horticulture process.

At $60.00 for 50-lbs. for kelp meal is the very best investment I could make.

Peace

CC

 

[StayHigh24]

a few questions...

a few questions...

Still figuring things out, so excuse any stupidity in this post. I have a few questions about the nutes you're talking about.

1. Are amino acids necessary for plants? I thought you had to focus on carbs, vitamins, and minerals, but why are aminos needed?

2. Is it always better to use organic nutes? It seems like some of the packaged nutes are more measured so they would be less of a pain to use, unlike organics and natural ingredients which might take a bit more measuring...

Thx!

 

[maryjohn]

Welcome!

You should start with the organics for beginners thread and get some basic theory down. In organics you don't feed plants. You feed the soil biology and through a mixture of predation and consequent metabolic waste, symbiosis, and good old diffusion, your plant gets fed.

This essentially requires little "growing skill". So it's great for idjits like me.

 

[HortProOrganics]

Welcome!

In organics you don't feed plants. You feed the soil biology and through a mixture of predation and consequent metabolic waste, symbiosis, and good old diffusion, your plant gets fed.

This essentially requires little "growing skill". So it's great for idjits like me.

Last time I checked, my organic ferts and supplements are taken in and utilized by my plants, of all forms, on top of soil culturing. Not sure where you are getting your info on that, actually quite confusing to me. Soil biology is one thing, that is a given, but organic farming doesn't just feed the flora and fauna of the soil world....oi, JMO, cheers. Oh, and organics do actually require more knowledge of just "little growing skill', if you want the maximum package.

 

[habeeb]

^ I believe this to be true as in chemical you measure and add, in organics your trying to manage the microbes, and learning through trial and error, and everything has potential to effect the outcome in organics .. basically the learning curve is alot more for organics but once you harness it, it works better then chemical

my opinion anyways

 

[maryjohn]

Last time I checked, my organic ferts and supplements are taken in and utilized by my plants, of all forms, on top of soil culturing.

do you mind letting us know where you checked the last time you checked?

If you are going to turn organic gardening on its head you need to give some sources.

 

[HortProOrganics]

do you mind letting us know where you checked the last time you checked?

If you are going to turn organic gardening on its head you need to give some sources.

So you are telling me, when I spray straight liquid kelp or even my compost tea( that has broken down major and minor elements in it), to my aeroponics or the the undersides of my leaves in my soil applications, the plant says no to feeding through its stomata cells? Yes, its a given that in certain forms of fertilizer and supplements you will need help in forms of bacteriums, fungi, microscopic flora and fauna to help breakdown the raw forms, but one cannot say that the plant cannot take in major/minor elements through the roots as well. Plants do obtain raw materials for their biosynthetic process in forms of: carbon dioxide, water, nitrate, phosphate, and other ionic forms of minor elements and minerals. This does mean in a soil system, you will see some fungi breaking down the "certain raw forms" of the supplement or natural material, but if the raw form is already been broken down, such as commercialized liquid fish meal( that is boiled, oil extracted, and a great deal of times, added with sulphuric acid to further breakdown the product so the NPK and other ionic forms of Sulphur, Magnesium etc will become readily available for root intake).

So, we both agree with the standard reasoning that in raw forms of organic supplements, you will need the microscopic worker to break down certain materials, but I must say, what you are telling me, is that when one purchases an already broken down product, like for instance, liquid fish or kelp extract, that the NPK and minor elements are not taken in by the plants roots? I will leave it at that....

Best of luck to your growing, stay healthy, I had fun with this( sorry to hijack the thread to the original poster) but I will continue to feed my plants with broken down raw materials( in usuable forms of NPK and me), and support my micro-organisms with raw materials.... No need to go on, and I will let you have the last word.

 

[maryjohn]

Plants do not feed through stomata, and compost tea has such negligible amounts of free nutes that it is not worth considering. Stomata have a waxy lining to repel water. Look it up. Your basic science is off IMO. Foliar feeding via water soluble nutes has nothing to do with stomates. It doesn't disprove your other points per se, but does call into question your authority as a source - enough to make me want to know your sources.

How about them sources? Don't walk away before letting me know where you get this stuff. I'm ready to learn, friend, but you gotta show me something worth learning. If you convince me, I can teach someone else, and you will have enlightened many people.

Fish hydrolysate, by the way, is not "broken down" by any stretch. There are some pretty complex compounds in there. Microherd required. If your bottled nutes do contain fertilizer, you can't call the grow organic.

In organic gardening, we feed the soil, not the plant. That is the conventional wisdom you are seeking to upend. Good luck, and I will be on your side if you do.

edit: sorry, I edited the shit out of this post.

 

[HortProOrganics]

I don't agree, but that is fine my man....

Stomata cell/foliar feeding with micros

http://www.simplyhydro.com/foliar_feeding.htm

Supports my opinion of feeding the plants, while building the soil. Hundreds of products and Collegian websites out there... I am not going to argue about it, its out there.

http://www.organicgardeningguru.com/fertilizers.html

A straight forward answer on fish emulsion.
http://www.the-organic-gardener.com/fish-emulsion.html

Now, you say I am going away, as I am not. I am not here to babysit or mold your own beliefs into mine. You obviously have it set in stone that plants cannot be fed with a organic fertilizer, or any other fertilizer if you go that route, and that they only receive the nutrition through the breakdown of the wastes of the raw materials. I applaud you in your beliefs, I do, but you accuse me of being "off", and I beg to differ. But it doesn't matter if you beleive me, just do your own research on the web, and all sites that are credible will support two things- organics DO feed the plant, and they DO support and balance the soil.

And, if I am using a 100% organic fertilizer( 100% raw materials broken down) with my Aeroponics , how come my plants can utilize the fertilizer, intake it from their roots?. You are saying that they cannot, and they need soil for the microbes to break down the nutrients...not always the case.

another good site on sustainability, foliar feeding and organics.
http://ww2.attra.ncat.org/index.php/PDF/foliar.pdf

www.ehow.com great videos of foliar feeding, with organics and conventional synthetic comparisons, all which lurk in the stomata cell absorbtion and through the leaf epidermis control.

Good site on explanation of normal additives toward root absorption with organics.
http://organicgardens.suite101.com/article.cfm/choose_an_organic_fertilizer


in the end, believe what you want to believe. The soil is the big issue, but not the only issue involving the feeding of plants via organic fertilizers.

 

[maryjohn]

I am glad you did not walk away as you seemed to imply you were done.

Now, if you find some actual scientific literature, one supporting, one denying my claim, I may take what you say seriuosly. Not salesmen or laypersons accounts of common garden lore please.

As for the rest - don't bore everyone with your opinion of me or our relationship. Most of your last post was about personal bullshit nobody wants to read, because it doesn't matter.

In particular, look into whether new growth can absorb better than old growth, and whether foliar feeding can replace root intake. Then look into the macro nutrients and whether they can be absorbed in organic form. The answer will be no, with the exception of water soluble compounds.

Now, is a dissolved compound bound together, or does being in solution mean you seperate the ion? Remember science class back in high school?

 

[humboldtlocal]

Damn, you nerds are smart. I have no idea what you are talking about but I love it. Please don't stop.