RockWool cubes in a HydroHut - second attempt

[Baruce]

So last year I gathered up everything I needed, set up the tent with healthy clones, and did everything I thought was right, only to watch it all slowly yellow and die. Sucked. That was my first attempt at growing, with minimal guidance.

I just set it all up again, moved in some healthy and bigger plants, and within like a day or two, I am seeing yellowing develop on the plants. WTF?

I have a 600w with an open winged reflector, decent ventilation, 19 on/5 off, and I'm flooding the table every 12 hours with Supernatural Brands Aqua-Grow, and some Local Harvest Grow supplemented. Ph is 5.5, ppm about 1640.

My totally amateur guess is that they are suddenly getting more/too much nutrients, compared to what they were getting before I got them, and perhaps the brighter 600w is aggravating the situation.

My current plan is to raise the light to the top of the tent as far I can, dilute the ppm to about 1300-1400, and try to increase the ventilation more with an intake fan. I'm not sure what else to try at this point...

I would hate to lose my second grow also, very discouraging, so I thought I'd throw it out here for some advice from some seasoned pros. See some attached pics, ask me anything... please help!

 

[cashmunny]

I think your nutrients are way too strong for a plant starting to veg. IMO cut that in half. For example, an aggressive vegging formula using GH nutes is 3-2-1 teaspoons per gallon of Grow/Micro/Bloom which is 764 ppm when added to RO water.

Are you using RO water btw? If not give it a try for a while just to lower your ppm. If you are using tap water is it hard water? That could be causing some nutrient lockout. It happened to me because I have extremely hard tap water.

Maybe a flush with pure RO water first, let it dry out, then go with the weaker nutes.

It seems that 90% of the problems people have are due to overwatering, overfeeding, or pH issues. pH seems to be spot on so I'd suspect the other two.

 

[EvilTwin]

Hi Baruce,
How did you condition the cubes?
What's your water like?
What are the cubes sitting on?
ET

 

[OC80]

ppm about 1640.

whoa! I hope thats an accidental 1 in front of that 640... Even 640 ppm for some vegging plants is overkill. sounds like nute burn.
Edit: looked at the pics and theyre not half as bad as 1640ppm sounds...

 

[FreezerBoy]

Are you sure you didn't get one of the off gassing death tents? Hydrohut was hit hard. Pull the plants out of the tent and see what happens.

 

[Baruce]

Thanks for the replies. I figured the the nutes were too high, so I just finished diluting down to about 1240 ppm, which is up from the estimated 1100 ppm they were at before I got the plants.

I also raised the light, and added an intake fan, so it's puffed up like a Moonwalk, instead of sucked in tight when I had only the exhaust fan going.

The person I got them from told me the cubes were conditioned with B1, but that's all I know about that.

I do not have an RO setup, don't know much about it, haven't seen nor heard about any of the local growers using it, so I can't say how much of an affect that is having in this case. If there were an issue with the local city water here, I'd have probably heard about it by now, so I don't feel too worried about that.

I am very concerned about this OFFGASSING of which FreezerBoy speaks. This is the first I've heard of that, and I have no Idea if I have an affected product. How can I be sure if it is that, or how can I rule it out? I really would hate to find out that all the work, time, and expense lost was due to that.

 

[EvilTwin]

Hi Baruce,
RO (reverse osmosis) water is tightly filtered water (through an RO unit). Bottled "drinking water" at the grocery is RO water.

You can't really make assumptions about the water. All you need to do is to take your meters and measure ph and more importantly TDS of your water out of the tap. Anything above 200-250 ppm is at the upper limit. And if your tap water is usable...you still need to let it sit for 24 hours to allow the chlorine to evaporate.

I asked about what your cubes were sitting in because if they are sitting on flat plastic, they won't drain properly and the roots won't be getting enough O2. They should be on a coco mat or a rockwool slab or at least some lava rock or hydroton.
ET

 

[Hydro-Soil]

I asked about what your cubes were sitting in because if they are sitting on flat plastic, they won't drain properly and the roots won't be getting enough O2. They should be on a coco mat or a rockwool slab or at least some lava rock or hydroton.
ET

Good call ET, was my first thought as well. When the cubes sit on smooth plastic, they retain that water waaaay too well. Lava-rock is cheap at your local landscaper supply and often only a few bucks a bucket or bag at hardware stores. Just rinse it well and then don't handle it a lot as it tends to create more dust quickly.

 

[WaywardBob]

since this is the 2nd time your plants have yellowed off and died, plus the fact that you put healthy plants in the hydro hut this time around and they still are yellowing off, i would definitely say its the offgassing. when did you buy your hydro hut?

 

[FreezerBoy]

I am very concerned about this OFFGASSING of which FreezerBoy speaks. This is the first I've heard of that, and I have no Idea if I have an affected product. How can I be sure if it is that, or how can I rule it out?

Remove plants from the tent for a few days. As I recall, symptoms disappear in a day or two. If this happens, off gassing is probably your answer but, to be sure, place them back in the tent. If symptoms re-occur, there you are.

HydroHut was pretty upfront with it all. Someone in China changed the formula for the plastics and never notified HH. To their credit, HH honored their warranties and replaced defective units. Some went through their dealers instead. Whether the exchange program is still going on ...?

 

[Baruce]

Thanks again for the replies. I tested the water straight from the tap, and it measures 190 ppm, and 8.1 Ph. I adjust the Ph before each watering, but have not given any thought to the base ppm of the tap water.

The cubes are sitting on the plastic surface of the watering table, each above one wide and two narrow "channels" which make the rectangular raised design - you can see it in a couple of the pics I posted above. They're not entirely on flat plastic, there is some open area on the bottom surface for uptake and drainage. My understanding is that the configuration is standard and efficient, the way I've seen others use it, though I could see using a rockwool slab, if needed; I just don't like the idea of having loose material to deal with.

I read through the DEATH TENT link that FreezerBoy posted above, and I am convinced that this is the problem I am experiencing. The plants have been steadily deteriorating as described by other victims of offgassing tents, and the pics posted in that thread look almost identical to my problem.

So, I've removed the tent entirely, out of the room, royal pain in the ass. I am hoping the damage stops, and that the plants recover outside of that toxic environment. I need to re-work the ventilation and some other logistics in that room now that the tent is gone, but I see no other obvious reason why things shouldn't progress normally at this point. Fingers crossed!

Thank you for the heads-up, FreezerBoy. And no, I don't think I'll be putting them back in to be sure, I'm done with that damned thing.

Now I need to figure out what to do about this worthless HydroHut. I'd like to sue them for all the time, money, work, and frustration their poisonous product caused me to waste. Very uncool.


Edit to add: WaywardBob, I purchased the HydroHut 12/15/07, have the reciept in hand

 

[Hydro-Soil]

They're not entirely on flat plastic, there is some open area on the bottom surface for uptake and drainage.

You're correct that it's used a lot. No, it's not anywhere near optimal. You'll do yourself a huge favor to change that up asap.

Bummer to hear about the tent too.

 

[ogatec]

looks exactly like the "off gfassing" problem....i would ditch the tent to see what happens...

 

[FreezerBoy]

Now I need to figure out what to do about this worthless HydroHut. I'd like to sue them for all the time, money, work, and frustration their poisonous product caused me to waste.

Those who've had the problem may disagree with the observation of an unaffected party but, best I could see, Hydrohut stepped up and did the right thing. They never requested the tents be made with poisonous material. They were as blind sided as anyone. Yes, they resisted the idea but, so did we. They worked for years with no trouble.

Once the trouble was determined, they solved the problem on the manufacturing end and offered brand new replacements at no charge. Some were too freaked to try again and went through their dealers who swapped tents for in store credit.

Give the process a try.

 

[PuReKnOwLeDgE]

Its the tent

 

[fyahfohigha]

I picked up a cheap tent from a retailer on ebay, went down and picked up from them, and for no other reason than it is relevant because cheap scetchy shit like this usually comes from asia, they where super asian... I had a problem with PM/blight/ and SM this last time around due to some bad cuts. and I introduced that tent at like week 3 in flower. the girls had alright growth, considering the problems and constant remedies they faced, and I didn't have any completely die out, they all matured like they should have, just weak and showing a little of what looked like blight, rusting leaves, deff./overdose signs (i was using mild organic teas the whole time in soil... so that wasn't it),and deatht o larger foliage. the PM kept at bay but these signs of what i thought origanlly was deff., and later blight, seem like they could be offgassing too? I don't want to get rid of the tent, because it works great for my set up, and keeps things neat, tidy, and easy to manage. However, I don't want to risk it either. Does this sound like it could be another one of the problems I am having? Or would it have killed off everything i had in there in the 8 weeks I used it? Note a couple of the girls cam eout untouched and prime time, so would it have affected all of them if it was offgassing?