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??What is the best medium for ebb/flow 4x4 table??

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smokeetreatz

Member
Old dirt farmer giving modern technology a chance.

I am setting up a ebb&flow 4x4 table using GH flora micro&bloom with compost tea, What would be the best medium to use? The room has a vented hood and co2.

I am leaning toward 3 gallon bags filled with the hydro corn on top of a bed of hydro corn.

Any and all suggestion are gladly welcomed!! Thanks in advance.


Lookin to try chemd and snow dawg


 
Lazyman

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
I use 2 gallon Smartpots filled with coco in E&F, vegged a week I usually end up with 2' tall plants at the finish, about 16-20 per tray under 1KW. Works great, has the moisture holding capabilities of soil, but feeding hydro (coco) nutes for exacting control. Not as forgiving as soil, not as hard as hydro (rocks) but once dialed in it's very simple. Check out Dongle69's grow and Greyskulls setups, as well as mine for more details.
 
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guest

I am with Lazyman............I use 2 gallon smartpots filled with coco in a 3x3 ebb and flo.
 
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ogatec

how many times do yall flood w/ coco?,? i didnt know it was so popular with e&f. i would think it would be too easy to overwater. i would vote hygromite cause it works a little better than hydroton but you cant really overwater....
 
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EvilTwin

Hi Smokeetreats,
I did E&F on 3x3 trays for several years. I was doing SOG using small pots full of hydroton. I'd fit 23 plants on one tray. Worked great and I'd still be doing it, but I got tired of all that cloning.

If you're using taller containers like grow bags...it would seem to me that you'd want something with wicking capabilites better then hydroton. 50/50 perlite/vermiculite like used in Hempy buckets might work good.

I personally have had problems with coco. Fine coco can waterlog, some cocos retain sodium and need to be flushed. You need to pre-condition the coco. And still, there are nutritional problems related to coco characteristics. I struggled with it for a couple years and gave up. My coco advice is...if you insist on using it, buy the best Coco you can find (pre-rinsed of sodium and preconditioned) and use with Coco specific nutrients.

Also if you do E&F with coco, be sure to use a filter bag for your pump so coco flotsam doesn't clog up the pump. IMHO coco is a much better with run-to-waste systems.
Cheers,
ET
 
Lazyman

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
EvilTwin has some good tips there.

My recommendation if you want to try coco:

I use Cocogro bricks, seems to be pretty residue free
Unwrap em into a 100g smartpot, inside a wheelbarrow
add a few gallons of water
add some fairly strong cal/mag mix
add a fairly strong batch of nutes
break up the coco and let it soak up the nutes
Pull up your smartpot and drain the coco back into the wheelbarrow
Put the coco into your pots/grow bags whatever and use
Put the smartpot back into wheelbarrow, and repeat.

This way the coco will have sucked up all the nutes and cal/mag it would have stolen from you later, and the plants will think it's soil with nutes already in it.

Otherwise most of your first 6-10 feedings will be eaten by the coco itself, and your plants will be hungry even though you feed them a strong mix. Just my $.02

I also use extra round pump filters (idea stolen from Dongle, shamelessly!) on my E&F fittings, keeps the reservoir cleaner. I don't have any coco running out of the smartpots though, they only drain water, no particles.
 
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EvilTwin

ST,
That sounds like a good combo. Another couple of coco related thoughts. People do use an actual mix of coco and hydroton. It's called Chow. You can vary the amount of hydroton till you get the desired drainage.

Also, I thought I'd mention a product that I just tried out yesterday. It's a bricked GH coco (so will need flushing and pre-treatment), but the unique thing is...it's a very coarse grade of coco. Water just runs though it. It's called GH cocotek "natural mixed brick". This coarse coco would be perfect for a hydro system. Holds more moisture then hydroton yet can be watered almost continuously. My plant seems to like it (new clone Momma) and so far I'm hand-watering daily.

Anyway, just wanted to give you something more to think about...
ET
 
Lazyman

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
Hey Eviltwin, just thought I'd mention based on your last post, I used coco chips (coco bark, orchid bark) the last couple runs and have some observations that might be useful to you and others:

Coarse medium is nice for established plants, but it does prefer to be top watered (not good for E&F) and wicking in chips is almost non-existent. I would recommend using regular coco, with no amendments, especially for rooted clones and small plants. My new trick is to soak the new bales in a strong nute/cal mag solution before use, so it's much more like soil and the nutes can go to the roots, not the coco for the first 8 feedings. I know a number of growers using plain coco in E&F with excellent results, no up-potting and great wicking, regardless of the pot used. The only problem with amending coco is getting amendments (even hydroton) back out for disposal. My favorite thing about the chips is I can use them as landscaping bark when done, don't even have to hide it! lol

Hope that helps someone...
 
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EvilTwin

Hi Guys,
Smokeetreatz...allow me to comment on something before I add some media info. I really feel that E&F trays were designed primarily for SOG growing. I used to run three 3' trays in a SOG perpetual harvest. My plants would go to flower with minimal vegging. For larger pots or bags...I personally feel that it doesn't flood high enough.

And another issue is height of plant. If you're using 3 gallon bags on top of a tray that has to be high enough to have the res underneath (correct?) How on earth can you possibly take advantage of a 3 gallon rootball in a system that has such height limitations? That is unless you have 10' ceilings.

Say you have the tray super low...2 feet. Plus height of a 3 gallon bag. Another foot and a half. Plus light depth and height to light...2' minimum. That leaves 2 1/2' plants at the absolute maximum and I was generous in my dimensions.

Large plants belong close to the floor...an Ebb and Gro sort of system.

OK, back to coco. Lazyman...I understand what you're saying. However this coarse coco I'm talking about isn't nearly as coarse as coco chips. I took a picture to give you some idea. Perhaps half-way between regular grind coco and chips. IMHO, it would work great as an E&F media in a SOG. But you can't make any assumptions about coco. It comes in many different grinds and varieties. And I suppose that's a good thing.
Peace,
ET
 

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darookie2000

Member
Lazyman said:
I use 2 gallon Smartpots filled with coco in E&F, vegged a week I usually end up with 2' tall plants at the finish, about 16-20 per tray under 1KW. Works great, has the moisture holding capabilities of soil, but feeding hydro (coco) nutes for exacting control. Not as forgiving as soil, not as hard as hydro (rocks) but once dialed in it's very simple. Check out Dongle69's grow and Greyskulls setups, as well as mine for more details.
Click to expand...
I was considering this setup canna bio terra or coco (using the same 2 gal smartpots - slightly less light at this point, though). Glad to see it works.
 
Lazyman

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
EvilTwin said:
OK, back to coco. Lazyman...I understand what you're saying. However this coarse coco I'm talking about isn't nearly as coarse as coco chips. I took a picture to give you some idea. Perhaps half-way between regular grind coco and chips. IMHO, it would work great as an E&F media in a SOG. But you can't make any assumptions about coco. It comes in many different grinds and varieties. And I suppose that's a good thing.
Peace,
ET
Click to expand...

Oh that's cool, I like it! Gonna have to get me a brick of GH cocotek "natural mixed brick". Might be perfect, I'll do a sample of it next round. Thanks ET!
 
Lazyman

Lazyman

Overkill is under-rated.
Veteran
darookie2000 said:
I was considering this setup canna bio terra or coco (using the same 2 gal smartpots - slightly less light at this point, though). Glad to see it works.
Click to expand...

Yep, my esteemed breeder buddy swears by the Bio Terra coco, gets 1.5 pounds per 600w light with that and the agriculturalorganics.com line (whole set, very expensive but, 11# out of 2 X 2400W 32-bucket Ebb and grows is worth it!)
 
JBlaze

JBlaze

Member
4'' rockwool cubes and coco mat. This is the easiest way to grow, just fill the water up. Go directly 12/12 from rooted clone. No training necessary, just lolipop the clones. You should pull 1lb/1k easily, if you have a green thumb you could do it with a 600w.
 
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bender420

Hey guys,

Excellent info here.
Quick question, how is coco's wicking capability.

I just transplanted to 10 in sq pots, and they are in the ebb n flow tray, however i can only flood maximum to 3 inches. I notice that in these big pots the top layer of coco stays dry, as i dip my finger in it get more and more moist gradually. Since this is my first time I am not sure how often to flood or how wet the coco needs to be or how good is its wicking capability.

Any input from you experts would be greatly appreciated.
 
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