Room Design.

[BagseedSamurai]

Maybe you guys and gals can help. I have two closets full of tomatos. They smell, need more light, and I need to light-proof the closets, too. The doors are made from two sliding plywood doors. The rooms themselves are about 3ft x 6ft, give or take, with about 7ft of headroom.

How might a guy lightproof that? Any ideas for cooling a 400w HPS in about a 3 x 6 area? Also, what is good to kill the stink? And how to deal with the heal of the ballast in a small area? I was going to get one Ona Block for each closet, see how that works.

Got some cash. Want to make this grow experience complete!

Also, what kind of nutes and additives should I go for? I am looking for maximum efficiency in soil.

 

[ItsAllOver]

You need an exhaust fan pulling through a carbon filter. I would shoot for something over 200cfm as far as the fan goes, with a filter to match it, for *EACH* 3x6 room. (or a doubly large fan to take care of both rooms. You can do the research on your own for matching up the equipment. Soler & Palau fans are great. Cheap, quiet, very effective when pulling through a filter. That will take care of the stink, getting the plants fresh air, and cooling the room. You just need a place to run your exhaust line. A standard way to do this is to use a hole in your ceiling and blow into the attic. (can redirect the exhaust line into the living space in the winter if this makes sense in your application) You might already have a hole in your ceiling from some kind of lighting fixture that you can remove, cap off the wires, (be careful! shut off appropriate breakers! don't die!) and run your ducting in the hole. This way it's impermanent and requires no repair when you are done growing there. However, most 6" or smaller holes in drywall are easily repaired...

Lightproofing can be achieved by removing your plywood doors and replacing them with PandaFilm (which is a material resembling a tarp that is highly reflective white on one side and black on the other. No light can get through. Great stuff) with a tarp zipper set up to allow access. Look into the zipper on the forums if it doesn't make perfect sense to you. This type of setup will allow for effective light and air proofing. You will, of course, need to cut a rectangular hole somewhere in the bottom of the pandafilm entryway to allow an A/C type return filter to be installed. (duct tape works well for this, and everything else in the world. Don't be caught without at least 2 rolls on hand if you are doing indoor gardening!) This will be your air inlet for the plants. I would bet a 24"x12" would be large enough for each 3x6 room.

Keep the ballast outside of the grow area. Your cord that runs from the ballast to the light fixture is long enough for this, correct?

I like Pure Blend Pro as far as liquid nutrients go, but you should use Happy Frog brand solid nutrients to mix into your soil, if you ask me. Good nutrients, contains a large amount and variety of beneficial organisms. I have been happy with them over the last year. Happy Frog stuff is made by FoxFarm, and can be found at indoor gardening stores.

Don't put the Ona blocks in the closet, put them in other areas of the house if you'd like. If someone comes in that knows anything about growing, though, you'll be caught. The smell is VERY strong and distinctive, so what ya do is drill a 1/16" hole in the lid of the canister, see how that works for smell, and drill additional holes if needed.

If you don't follow these directions to a t I will be personally offended.
Joking, but I hope I helped you out. You need to spring for that ventilation equipment though. It is one of the most important aspects of the grow room. The sizing I gave you will even allow you to move up to a 600W light, surely, which I highly suggest for your room size. Go for an electronic ballast and be a pioneer, try out SunPulse brand PSMH (pulse start metal halide) bulbs. Many folks think the are the future of indoor gardening, but that is yet to be seen.

Take cared

 

[BagseedSamurai]

Wow, that is incredibly helpful. There are a couple things that are catching me up.

First, I live in an apartment. Moving air into the ceiling is not something that would be appropriate, I do not think. Venting is something that I have been struggling with, and its is one of the things that is making me think I may not be able to do this with what I have available. I measured my rooms and they are 2ft width x 6ft width x 6ft Height. the "attic" is a shared space from what I can tell, shared with 5 other apartments, at least. I could vent into a storage room I have that is located outside with no A/C or vent in and of itself. The best that I think I can do is put a fan or three in there. Thing is, both of the closet spaces (for veg and flower) are in, adjacent and connected to my bedroom.

As for light proofing, I was going to do the white/black plastic stuff (panda or similar) with a zipper. I could cut a hole and duct the fan itself, maybe.

For the stink, why can I not put the ona blocks in the rooms themselves? I need anyone walking in to not smell anything. Price is no object when it comes to this aspect. I know my priorities are out of whack here, but security > yield imo.

Right now, my shopping cart looks like:
-600w HPS with MagniWing Reflector and Bulb (for flower)
-T5 High Perfomance Grow Light 4ft. (suppliment my veg)
-2 Ona Blocks (one for each room)
-Dark Energy Supp.

I am so reluctant to upgrade this thing. I need security in this apartment. I have put a lock on my bedroom door just in case, but.. stink is obvious.

This is stressful.

 

[ItsAllOver]

Can you vent both closets into the storage space? If so, I assume you're going to have to cut holes in the wall the size of the ducting... This is no problem, even in an apartment, because you can patch and paint the holes before move out inspection. Trust me, it's been done without any trouble.

Also, this storage room, does it have any way for the air to escape? I assume it does through a door of some kind that you would otherwise be accessing it from. So, yea, just vent into that room. As long as the area you vent to is NOT the source of the air that is going into your grow space, you should be fine. It WILL certainly contribute heat, air movement, and some noise to that area of the apt but life goes on.

Be back later...
Must run

 

[JMasta]

You are much better off getting a carbon filter and figuring out how to run your air through it to take care of the smell. Having a carbon filter is a must in an indoor grow in my opinion.

 

[ItsAllOver]

What did you mean about putting fans in the storage room? To cool it? Fans only move air and give humans the sensation of cooling, they don't change temperature, so that wouldn't help. Luckily, it is also unnecessary, so just have your inline fan pull through a carbon filter at the start of the ventilation line, then through the light hood and out to that storage room. (also consider putting the fan before the light hood. It won't be passing hot air through it that way and its life will be extended)

As JMasta said, surely you need to get a carbon filter. You keep talking about security then say you're using Ona blocks for the stink. This is not going to be enough, even for tomatoes.

Apartment grows are possible, but you must take security very seriously if you want all your organic produce to be safe.

I was saying not to put the Ona blocks in the grow room because that is senseless. You want to put the block in the rooms that will be occupied by people. If they were in the grow room with the Ona block you've already been compromised. Ona block in the storage room and maybe one other somewhere else in the apartment. Surely it is unnecessary and sort of gross to have one in the grow room.

Do not upgrade it until you work out your ventilation!
Don't bother coppin the 600s until you get a strong fan(s) and carbon filter(s)

Take care of yourself.

 

[ItsAllOver]

Also, you mentioned this so I'll say it. Best bet for security is to not have people in your apartment at all. Sad but true.

 

[BagseedSamurai]

This is so stressful. More so than I figured it would or should be..

No one in my apartment? Can't do that.

Drilling a hole for vent into another room? Difficult at best without the proper tools.

Awesome.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

1# 600W is waaaaay too much for that space, especially considering you have ventilation issues.

2# A 250w will bury one person in meds and a 400w will bury 2. How many are you growing for again?

3# Have you grown before?

 

[ItsAllOver]

It shouldn't be stressful, but our government makes it that way, even if you are growing tomatoes.

Ok, have the people in the apt but not in the bedroom with the closets... It'll all be fine. You will have to mask noise: easy, just put a box fan or air purifier or fishtank in the room near where the air noise exists.

You won't be drilling a hole or anything, you'll be cutting it with a razor knife. It is drywall, correct? (If not, you won't be able to set up an adequate ventilation system and I suggest that you don't grow in this location, unless you can figure out how to vent the hot, CO2 sparse air somewhere that doesn't supply the room. Without this, the vent system is useless) Then to fix it you just get some patching compound, some kind of screen, glue the screen onto the inside of the drywall and apply compound in layers until it's flushish, then sand, then paint. (also try keeping the pieces you've cut out so you can put them back in, glue in place, apply patching compound, paint) I just did it myself, they did not take my security deposit because they didn't know it happened, and I'm no professional for sure. The patch looked good anyway.

In response to Hydro-Soil:

1) You must have never tried it, because it surely is possible, and actually might be perfect for that size light. I have seen a 600w HPS with my own eyes (and with no temperature problems aircooled with a 142 cfm canfan/filter, which is a small fan) in a 2'x4'x8' space and in a 3'x4'x8' space. The former volume is smaller than the OP's space and the latter is only slightly larger. It CAN be done, and with great results. Again, you must air cool and must be bringing fresh air in at a reasonable rate, but these things are always true anyway.

2) Correct. And yes, OP, how many? You could do probably two grows a year to get enough maters to feed you and a friend. (or two)

3) Another good question. It seems like it's going on now, right? Just with no real ventilation?

Search around for ways to solve the vent issue and for large lights in small spaces. People have done it. Oh internet, where would we be without you?

Be good, folks.

 

[BagseedSamurai]

1# I hope its not too much for the space, considering I just ordered. I bought one more flourescent for veg to minimize the need for vent in the other room because there would be no where to vent to. I am not sure if the walls are drywall, however. I have never done housework like this before.

2# I need enough tomatos to feed myself. I simply got sick of putting effort in and getting enough to feed me for one day per "season". So much work with so little payback!

3# Several times. One or two at a time, nothing quite like this.

I have been looking into the problem and I honestly am not sure how to do this. To make matters worse, hydroasis, where I bought the 600w (on sale!) charged me three times for one transaction.

 

[ItsAllOver]

Step 1: Chill out, you are going to burst a blood vessel if you stress like you already are. It is about to get crazier, for sure.

So in response to #1. It is going to be fine!

#2 Good, you will be happy with the yield you'll get from one 600w

Also, you can easily tell if it's drywall. Try to punch it. If you get a hole, it's drywall. If not, it's a broken hand

 

[ItsAllOver]

BTW I hope you bought a damn fan and filter.

 

[BagseedSamurai]

Haha, I am stressing a little overmuch. Even my fiance can tell I am stressed over something. She just does not know what! Haha.

I am shopping around for the right fan, actually. I will need it to be incredibly quiet, probably small, too. So far, I have found one fan that seems to fit my requirements, but it is only 100cfm. I don't think I want an industrial fan! I also have to match whatever fan I get to the right kind of filter. If I am not mistaken, the fan will blow out "into" the pipe I build from the chamber into the other room outside, pulling air through the filter as it does?


A razor seems to sink into the wall with moderate effort, so I guess its drywall. I will have to cut through two layers to lead a duct line from the flowering chamber into the storage room outside.

The plan is coming together, it seems.

Hell, I could just keep the closet doors open or open them a couple times a day..

 

[ItsAllOver]

The fan must be bigger than 100cfm. The 150 that I'm recommending is on the very low end. Others would probably recommend more.

Good to hear that it's drywall. You're well on your way. Don't feel bad about cutting up the wall. It's easy to repair with materials from Lowes/Home Depot.
Now is when you begin to try to figure out the exact paint brand and material that your landlord uses on their units. I'm guessing Antique White.

I wish you great success. What growing technique are you using?

 

[BagseedSamurai]

I am actually in the process of trying to dial in my entire technique. I have messed around with basic bubbler hydroponics (vat of water with an airstone), but have mostly used soil. Currently, my garden is purely soil and not organic as I found that organic is entirely too much hassle. I still use organics when possible. I usually take a clone early on, about 5th node to give them more "bush" appearance. Debating on bending instead.

 

[ItsAllOver]

Organics is entirely too much hassle? I disagree. Look into it a little more. I think you'll find it worth it. It is entirely justifiable in a practical sense ("healthiness" or quality of product, ease of execution) and in an ethical sense. However that's up to you.

I would go in the LST direction if I were you. I believe that the plants react in a more robust way when they aren't stressed by topping, etc.
I simply get a roll of thin copper wire, maybe 16 gauge, and cut it into little 4 inch sections. I tie these around items of varying weight, or varying quantity. I find that 2 inch wood screws work well. If you need to train a large, thick branch, you use 3 or so screws to dangle on one of the leaves growing off of it (not the branch itself, I found that often, the wire hangers physically interfere with growth from nodes if you hang them on the branches. They just slide down onto the new growth, inhibiting it.). If you are training a smaller, thin, more pliable branch, you just use one or two. Just make a U-shaped bend on the end of the wire opposite the screws.
This is much easier than tying, and I think of it as jewelery for the mothers. I use a SOG technique, so my flowered girls don't get any jewelery. I'll be doing a write-up on it today!

Take care

 

[BagseedSamurai]

Organics is entirely too much hassle? I disagree. Look into it a little more. I think you'll find it worth it. It is entirely justifiable in a practical sense ("healthiness" or quality of product, ease of execution) and in an ethical sense. However that's up to you.

Hey cut me some slack. I have been 100% organic for almost 10 years.

I would go in the LST direction if I were you. I believe that the plants react in a more robust way when they aren't stressed by topping, etc.
I simply get a roll of thin copper wire, maybe 16 gauge, and cut it into little 4 inch sections. I tie these around items of varying weight, or varying quantity. I find that 2 inch wood screws work well. If you need to train a large, thick branch, you use 3 or so screws to dangle on one of the leaves growing off of it (not the branch itself, I found that often, the wire hangers physically interfere with growth from nodes if you hang them on the branches. They just slide down onto the new growth, inhibiting it.). If you are training a smaller, thin, more pliable branch, you just use one or two. Just make a U-shaped bend on the end of the wire opposite the screws.
This is much easier than tying, and I think of it as jewelery for the mothers. I use a SOG technique, so my flowered girls don't get any jewelery. I'll be doing a write-up on it today!

Take care

I may try LST with these OPB's..

 

[ItsAllOver]

K. Good luck on the whole shebang

 

[BagseedSamurai]

Got another female Red Queen. I should start a log here.