2nd Grow - Trying to get it right this time - 400w MH/HPS - Hows it look?

[iceman1027]

I ventured down this road once before, a few years back, in a dorm room closet with all CFLs, bag seed, and miracle grow. We ended up with a little under an ounce of hermied nug from two plants that, besides the fact that it had seeds, wasn't too bad at all.

This time I'm trying to do it right.

The set up:

400w HPS with MH conversion bulbs
FF Happy Frog soil
2 x Feminized Master Kush
5 x Mazar Afgan (one never germmed, so 4 now)
Nutrients - TBD
Ventilation - just one fan right now, i think it gets hot in there, no temp/RH yet

The schedule so far:

Aug 15th - Put all 7 seeds on paper towels to germ
Aug 17th - 6 of 7 seeds cracked and put into soil - running 18h on with the MH bulb
Aug 18th - first leaves break surface
Aug 20th - seem to be growing well to me, except for some stretching

The Pictures (only took one set so far, germination isn't that interesting):

Troubleshooting:

Ok so it looks to me like they are stretching a lot. I already buried some of the stem again if you can tell in the pictures. The MH light is only about 9" from the top of the plants I am really scared of burning them. Shouldn't this 400w light be bushing them out hardcore. Could something else be causing the issue? I think it gets too hot in there, will go get a thermometer, but is stretching generally just light issue? You guys let me know how it all looks.

 

[Smiler]

Looks good, the streach is OK, its streach between the nodes that are undesirable, a little streach to the first node lets the air flow.

 

[iceman1027]

The schedule so far:

Aug 15th - Put all 7 seeds on paper towels to germ
Aug 17th - 6 of 7 seeds cracked and put into soil - running 18h on with the MH bulb
Aug 18th - first leaves break surface
Aug 20th - seem to be growing well to me, except for some stretching
Aug 26th - First fan leaves coming in - leaf curling and brown spots on tips of older leaves - posted to infirmary

 

[ItsAllOver]

They are a bit spindly but it can be fixed. Replant them or pile the soil up to within 1/2 inch of the leaves. This is nitpicky but will help in the long run. This is also a good time to supercrop if you were planning on doing that a bit. Look into it in the training sticky in the Indoor Soil forum.

Also, I'm not an expert, but that might be a Cal/Mag deficiency. Do you have access to a hydroponics store? I recommend always having around a bottle of Cal/Mag Plus, Liquid Karma, and BioBizz Root Juice (this shit is expensive, but it seriously does things to roots that I can't explain except that "goddidit," and I'm an atheist). I'm not big on using a million additives, but these seem to be good ones.
Also my on the nutrients is to use the Pure Blend Pro line. I bought mine to use in organic hydro e&f table with rockwool, and find that they work well for my soil moms, as well.


:knucklebump:

 

[ItsAllOver]

BTW, is there a white fuzz growing on top of your soil? Is that white fuzz mycorrhizae? If so, those colonies are thriving, and that is awesome.

 

[lmv931]

If you plan on transplanting later I would suggest adding some FF ocean forest to you're mix.... Happy Frog alone is ok but Many people have said mixing Happy Frog and Ocean Forest makes a big diffrence.... just my ....

good luck I can't wait to see them girls get bigger!

 

[kingjames488]

my sprouts were stretching at first and with the semi-powerful airflow a couple of the little stems snapped
so i burried them a lot at the start... and they ended up having the lowest node at soil level.
makes for compact plants... but also can be a bit of a pain sometimes.

so leave at least some stem and dont put em too deep.

 

[iceman1027]

And seconds on cal/mag defieciency? i'd like to be sure before i go out to buy anything. especially is the brown spotting could be from too hot soil as it is.

 

[etinarcadiaego]

I've used Happy Frog before, and in my opinion it's way too early for those plants to be exhibiting Ca/Mg deficiencies, as their requirements at this stage in life are pretty small. In the past I've had pH issues with Happy Frog before, but it presented differently (and later) in the plants.

They otherwise look very healthy, and Happy Frog is EXCELLENT soil for younger plants in my experience. I've grown full size bell peppers in it as well.

I wouldn't add any nutes or Cal/Mag just yet, I've burned the shit outta plants with low doses of Cal/Mag before. Doesn't Happy Frog have lime in it? I believe it does, and as the lime breaks down it supplies Ca and Mg . . .

I'd wait and see . . .

 

[iceman1027]

I've used Happy Frog before, and in my opinion it's way too early for those plants to be exhibiting Ca/Mg deficiencies, as their requirements at this stage in life are pretty small. In the past I've had pH issues with Happy Frog before, but it presented differently (and later) in the plants.

They otherwise look very healthy, and Happy Frog is EXCELLENT soil for younger plants in my experience. I've grown full size bell peppers in it as well.

I wouldn't add any nutes or Cal/Mag just yet, I've burned the shit outta plants with low doses of Cal/Mag before. Doesn't Happy Frog have lime in it? I believe it does, and as the lime breaks down it supplies Ca and Mg . . .

I'd wait and see . . .

In your experience with happy frog do you think that the browning could be nute burn on my young plants, and would you still just recommend waiting? If it is nute burn what is the plan of action? hope that the plants grow into it, or start to consider transplanting?

 

[iceman1027]

This is also a good time to supercrop if you were planning on doing that a bit.

I was planning on doing LST simply for the lowered stress on the plant and the shorter veg time. do you think supercropping is the way to go rather than LST? My first grow was LST but am open to new ideas if it means more yield.

 

[etinarcadiaego]

To be honest that doesn't look anything like nute burn to me.

In the pics it looks like this grow is a basement or crawlspace or something . . . do the plants have insect damage? Look on the underside of the affected leaves with a loupe if you have one . . .

Honestly I think you'll be okay if you just give them time. How's the ventilation where they are? I think someone asked this before, but can you identify the white "stuff" on your soil in this pic:

I think someone mentioned they hoped it was beneficial fungus, I just thought I'd ask to be sure.

 

[Mr. Hugeblunts]

that stuff kinds looks like the beginnings of trichoderma, the green forest mold.

The end of the leaves curling downward is a sign of nitrogen overfert.

They are fine, just keep doing what you're doing

 

[kingjames488]

that does look like some sort of mold on the soil...

ive seen the perlite and some of the soil turn a sort of algee greeny color before and not have problems, but that looks a LOT like trich(a very common and fairly agressive mold... its what grows on bread and most food first when it spoils).
and it looks like its spreading to all your pots...
not sure how it effects plant growth if at all, but its def there.

also id say its a little soon to be looking for nute problems.
they should get another set of nodes or 3 before you feed anyways.
I had a sprout that almost looked a little purple on the leaf when it first sprouted... but it went away.

id say that mold is more of a problem then your nutrients... if its a problem at all.

 

[iceman1027]

the perlite i used to amend the soil was old and wet and a little green, i think that that white fungus may be a result of that, i hope it doesnt end up causing a lot of problems.

i think insect damage is very unlikely, but i'll check for insects on the leaves.

ventilation could definitely be deficient because it is in a crawl space, i go in there once or twice a day bringing in fresh air with i am assuming but otherwise no air goes in. how would i solve this in a crawl space?

 

[kingjames488]

do you have a circulation fan?

mold doesnt like fresh air... so try to get them lots of it.
also if your handy you could cut a hole out of that drywall and mount an air intake fan with a fancy vent cover on the outside to desguise it.
with that it would also be a good idea to have a larger exhaust fan with a carbon scrubber if smell is an issue, or else the possitive preasure in the grow area will just force the "stinky" air out of any holes and into the house.

depends on what level of stealth your shootin for...

 

[PhilUp419]

looking good, i'm gonna follow you on this one

 

[PLAY_mound430]

you are two days ahead of my grow i just started and your stuff is looking great.

 

[iceman1027]

I am pretty sure they are deteriorating day by day however. the new leaves have the serrated edges folded inwards. should i transplant??

i mean they are still growing at a pretty good rate, but not anywhere near at 100% health. the new growth looks good but old growth is dieing off. browning on the leaves that already had it is getting worse. mostly thought its just this folded leaf edge that bothers me, too much N?

 

[iceman1027]

some updated pictures...sorry for the plethora of posts, just want to try to get this solved before it gets any worse.

The leaves are coming in with folded edges and twisted shapes and deformities.

Is it too early to try flushing them, i think i have read that flushing is pretty stressful on young plants.