ph of water @ 6.3 / ph of runoff @ 7.5 + ... flushing has begun

[Dreamscape]

My plants have been yellowing from the oldest leaves up and have also been drooping for the past week or so ... I was told I had a combination of overwatering and pH problems.

So I let them dry out the past 4 days.

I did a foliar feed with the 1/3 strength a few hours ago and put them back under the lights.

About an hour ago I took them back out and I started flushing them all.

The runoff pH for all of them was around 7.5 and up so I've been flushing with an acidic tap water flush to bring the pH down. It looks like i'm getting them to around the high 6's at this point.

Unfortunately the pH testing kit I have is liquid and everytime some of the dirt gets into the test vial it darkens the water thus making it harder to acurately tell if the water is just dark or if the pH is really still in the 7's.

At this point i'm thinking of just getting some promix and transplanting so my FoxFarms 60/40 Ocean Forest and Light Warrior mix doesn't rape my plants anymore.

if you couldn't tell i'm quite frustrated and bullshit at this whole situation.

Part of me just wants to get a bunch of Lime and mix it with the Ocean Forest mix but the other part of me doesn't want to risk doing all that work just to have it fuck up again.

Promix and transplant OR Lime the ocean forest and transplant ???

... ?

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

I've been growing so many years it ain't funny, and I've never owned a PH test kit. I do have one for my fish, but can't see a reason to get one for my soilmix. I do lime my soil, and have always done it as long as I can remember which is pre cannabis. My grandmother taught me to. Testing PH is fine if you're grappli...er growing hydro, but I think it's a useless variable in soilmix that is amended with lime.

'Let them dry out 3 days, took them away from the lite, foliar fed them, put them back under the light, took them back out and flushed'. Wow. Can we agree these ladies are overmedicated? You had my attention, and probably your plants' too, at the three day dryout.

You don't mention pot size and plant height that you've been using, but I think you should repot with lime in da mix, and a suitable size pot for the height of plant which means not too big a pot so the roots can get some air.

 

[Dreamscape]

The biggest ones are at around 6" - 7" and the runts are at about 2"-3".

I've got 15 plants.

They're in 16 oz. cups.

Me and my n00b ways have brought them through hell and back once already ... they were stunted from seedlings stage and double stunted again when transplanted. Triple stunted from a 2nd transplant and stunted a 4th time from this pH / overwatering situation.

As per you instruction there is a SHIT ton of holes on the bottom of the cups as well as 6-8 slices around the base ring of the cup too.

2 hours and 30 min. later i'm done with my first official emergency flush ... not as easy as I initially thought ... thats for sure.

At this point all the plants are back under the light and I sprayed them with 1/3 strength feed again ... just because it felt right. Whether or not it actually is , i'll find out i'm sure

Its dolomite lime right ?? Any particular type or brand I should be looking for??

Also ... should I just scrap the ocean forest and go promix ??


thanks greengenes!

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Ah, yeah I remember we were talking about this on the other thread, sorry Dreamscape. I don't know about the ocean forest vs promix, but my take on soilmixes is that it's mostly about drainage and how well that matches your personal watering style. In other words, there's no best soilmix for everyone, just a best one for you. How it drains is more important than what 'nutes' are in it. Also, I think all soilmixes for high energy plants like cannabis need lime to buffer against PH swings caused by the huge demands on the mix for water and nutrients. I've got some 'Whitney Farms' dolomite lime here, but I prefer crushed oyster shell lime. I used to buy it as 'oyster shell ag lime' from Bandini, but they tanked and now I buy it at the local feed store. Feedstore oyster shell is in bigger pieces, but I just throw more in. Can't have too much lime you know, at least not in that form. The dolomite lime is available faster, and I think has more magnesium, but the oyster shell probably has more trace minerals.

 

[HeadyPete]

If you have high ph problems why would you consider adding lime? Lime buffers (ie. counteracts - RAISES PH) against acidity, that's why manufacturers add it to peat soil mixes. peat is very acidic. If you use coco, it has a ph closer to 6-7 and needs no lime. Your media is already alkaline and adding lime would be a disaster. Besides, lime is very slow acting and your plants will be done and smoked before that lime breaks down enough.

Nothing wrong with your soil, just your feeding. If there is a drainage problem, add 30% perlite to your soil mix.

If your plants are yellowing bottom up, you have a specific problem - lack of nitrogen - feed more Grow nute. Flushing is making it worse.

Some pix would help us help you.

 

[Dreamscape]

oh boy ...

"flushing is making it worse" (too late) ... can you elaborate on that one ??

pics on the way

 

[akabud]

oh boy ...

"flushing is making it worse" (too late) ... can you elaborate on that one ??

pics on the way

It sounds like you may have a N def( if your yellowing from the bottom up), i have just been through this and started adding veg nutes along with my flower nutes, i water from a 5ltr watering can and replaced 25% of my flower nutes with veg nutes, only to see a massive inprovement within 24 hours

 

[Hash Man]

dreamscape- what heady pete is saying is your plant has no nutes in it, which will account for the high ph. I bet your ppms are low, around 300 or less... Generally, if your ppm is higher, your ph will go down. listen to heady pete, he helped me out when i ran into issues... Hey Pete, hows it going?

 

[Ziggaro]

First I want to tell you runoff ph is not soil ph. If u want soil ph mix soil with distilled or ro water and check the ph of that water in 15 minutes or so.

The other poster said u are doing more harm because I think he didn't read about ph issues completely. he was saying you have a nute def so flushing nutes out won't help..don't think he realizes u are flushing to correct ph.

what is the starting ph of ur water?

 

[Dreamscape]

AHHH I see ...

So my high pH is a result of lack of nutrients ... I was wondering why it would be more alkaline. All is making sense now ... And I like sense because then I know what to do because the cause and effect has made itself clear.

Also I haven't checked my runoff ppm's but that first feed that I did was @ 300 ppm (.5 conversion).

 

[Dreamscape]

The starting pH of the water I WAS using initially was around 5 ish. The tap water (100 ppm) I used to flush was pH'd.

 

[johnnyla]

don't fry em when you add nitrogen. feed medium strength if they are big plants. also depends on if you are using organic or synthetic nutes. i'm underfertilizing by feeding nutes every other day but no yellowing and recently fed medium strength and they responded well with barely noticeable leaf tip burn which is fine in my book. i also mixed 30% perlite into my Ocean Forest soil and have great drainage and full sun. drainage is key to growing healthy cannabis. it likes soil that has lots of drainage so the roots can breath. once you dial it in you will get in the flow with your plants.

 

[Hash Man]

dreamscape- this is an area of interest where there are many paths toward the right outcome... judging by your list of stands for your fist growshow, some of those ladies can take heavy nutes... What nutes are you using? I use gh nites and lately i have been slamming them with more nutes than ever... and yielding more than ever... lol... i tried to do it like so many here on icmag with the medium feedings etc... but with soil, and even moreso with coco coir, i have found that consistent feedings(everywatering) of at least 800ppm during veg and the first 2 weeks of flower, then at least ph1200 ppm ( sometimes up to 1800) after week 2 of flower... seems to work best for me... Look into CEC aka cation exchange capacity... Mistress outlines it well somewere in these forums...long story short, but depending on what meduim your growing in, water in between light feedings
might not be the best method... check out my pics, and all the sick plants were due to underfeeding. I grow OGKUSH tho and its a nute hog... Is there any way you can give us some more info on the specific ntes and meduim used in your grow.

 

[Dreamscape]

I just got done feeding them 5ml/gallon of Floranova Grow. (I also have some liquid karma and hygrozyme although I haven't used them. Should I??)

The plants are about 35 days or so from seed.

My novice ways have made it so the Tallest are 7" and smallest are 2".

They started in little 3x3inch cells in only FoxFarms LightWarrior soiless medium. It has some perlite and mychorziahal fungus.

I then transplanted them (when they were bone dry - doh) into 32 0z. clear cups with a 60/40 mixture of FoxFarms Ocean Forest and Light Warrior. Ocean Forest has nutrients in it as well as some perlite.

I then noticed some algae growing on one of the cups so I transplanted them again into 16oz solo cups. I had thought that the cups being smaller may assist in filling up the rootball quicker considering these plants are stunted.

I had read that 2-3weeks MAX is what you'll get for feed out of the ocean forest. I'm guessing I hit that point around 10+ days ago.

So hopefully the 5ml/gallon dosage of Floranova Grow pulls them out of their rut. I'm still worried about the medium though.

When conducting the flush yesterday it seemed like majority of the perlite ended up on the tops of the cups because they float in water and I was flushing these babies pretty aggressively not realizing what could happen.

At this point i'm still wondering if I should just transplant them or not ... So many conflicting opinions being given to me ... my head is starting to spin a bit

 

[itsus]

if it looks like your fucked this early off, you might want to start some more seeds just in case. keep these around to nurse on, and you'll have a cannabis phd in no time. only real way to learn is to screw it up and fix it. my ol'man once told me if you can't learn from somebody elses fuck ups, then your gonna fuck up yourself a few times now and then. good luck bro

 

[Dreamscape]

thanks ...

At this point ... after the 5ml/gallon Floranova Grow feed hours ago i've noticed that the weak yellow and/or brown bottom leaves are starting to curl up and in on themselves.

My guess is these weak yellowish/brownish next to dead leaves can't handle the full strength feed ??? Or is that from something else ?her


Other than those leaves - all the other ones are pretty much still droopy and the exact same (with the exception of the new growth on top still looking healthy).

 

[Hash Man]

right on looks like you might have saved em.. if all the new growth looks fine, then just treat em with tlc and you should be fine...somethng to note.. if your ph was coming out at 7.5, then you most likely had nute lockout (if you had any nutes at all) which was caused by PH issues, which would explain the brown dead spots on the old growth...i have had issues b4 with seeds and they are so fragile, that they are easily injured through inconsistant treatment, but given correct treatment, they bounce right back... if your new growth stays healthy, your good to go, watch your ph... there is a chart around here somewhere about ph and uptake availability....you could use some floraliscious plus, which has humic acids, which can help you buffer your ph a bit more... hygrozym has always done me right... its just damn expensive... if you have that type of cash, you would be better off for this grow, trading it back for a ph meter and ppm meter...

 

[Dreamscape]

Seems all they needed was a good flushing to regulate the pH and a 5ml/gallon blast of floranova and new growth has blown up

I also add MANY more holes to those cups as well as 7-8 slits along the bottom ring of the cups as well.

I already have a ppm meter and a pH test kit although i'm going to get a meter because I dont like the liquid dropper kit. It works , just not as easy or accurate as i'd like.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

Sounds like things are improving! I'm still skeptical about PH and PPM meters and such. As you know I've been growing 41 years and have never had a use for either.

The issues of PH and nutrient concentrations are deeply dependent on a few things higher up the 'flow chart' of cause and effect. Mainly; Light, Water and Rootspace. Nutrient levels and PH are almost completely dependent on those parameters. The best way to control PH and nutrient levels is through manipulation of light, water and rootspace.

Light is first. Simply turning up the light intensity will cause the plant to need more water and nutrients. A good grower responds accordingly. This is key. We don't force a plant to grow by watering and feeding it, we respond to it's growth by giving it water and food.

Water. We give the plant lots of water and what happens? It grows like crazy. In about one week, it's potbound and needs more rootspace. Notice I haven't mentioned nutrients? That's simply because they're further down the flow chart of cause and effect.

Looking at your plants, they don't need food. They're not growing fast enough to need any. Consider the 'big three' I just mentioned, and how you can best improve them. That's your fastest path towards being a skilled grower. I won't tell you to throw away the PH and PPM meter beause you payed good money for them. But, I suggest you stop betting on technology and start developing some skills, because sooner or later, that's what will happen whether you intend it or not!

 

[Dreamscape]

thanks MGG