How should one wire up 6 x1000k?

[GorillaGrower]

Hey guys.. simple question.. but often times its not totally explained. I have a decent understanding of electric and circuits.. and some experience with working 120v and 220 circuits. What i need is not really a HOW TO actually wire the circuits.. but more a HOW should my circuits be organized.


here's the scenario..
50amp circuit with female plug free of use and ready to rock

the desire is to run 6x 1000k ballasts on a timer (less timers = better ergonomics)

also to design a setup for the 50 amp circuit w/ 4k plus 120v outlets.. but on a flip/flop..(we can get to that later although I have the contactors already).

So let me state what (ithink) i know..

i should run 2 ballasts per 15amp 220 vlt circuit and run 3 of those.. each 15amp on its own breaker.. in a sub panel thats attached via a male 50 amp plug.

my question really comes in.. when you look at how the timer plays a role in this. should i be just running each 15 amp 220 volt circuit... through its OWN pool/hot tub timer? or would one work for the whole 3x15 amp 220v circuit? I ask because it seems during startup I would have 6 ballasts all trying to start at once.. and figured they would draw too much at one time. soo should I be staggering the ballasts startup with more than one timer?

also i have a slight understanding of contactors.. and understand what they do.... should I be using a contactor or 3 of them(one for each 15 amp 220v circuit) one for each timer so they are staggered startups?

and finally should there be a 50 amp breaker in the sub panel.. or does that just get wired in knowing at the other end (main panel) there is a breaker.


lets see some pics .. or maybe someones got a couple links that are really helpful thanks guys..

 

[EvilTwin]

Hi GG,
I mess with electricity a bit. I assume you're talking about an Internatic type 40 amp timer. Your total for the 6 lights should be well below that, so I'd say you can get by with one timer. But do you need a 40 amp timer? See next paragraph...

Contactors are the same as relays, right? So you really only need a small timer to trigger the contactors since the timer is only handling the trigger load and not the full light load. Correct?

On the sub-panel question, you don't need to have a 50 amp breaker at each end. Just the one in the main breaker box is enough. And really, I'm not even that sure if the whole sub-panel is necessary. Those 15amp breakers you're talking about...are they 110V?

I don't have a real clear picture of your whole project, but those are the questions I could answer now.
Peace,
ET

PS: Usually with the term flip/flop...that implies a system where you have two separate rooms running staggered 12 hours each to maximize a circuit. I'm thinking you don't really mean flip-flop. You just wanted to use contacotrs which, with a dedicated 50 amp circuit, you really don't need to do. I'm thinking you're complicating things. I'd just build a box with sockets wired into the 40am timer which is plugged into your dryer circuit. Forget the contactors.

 

[GorillaGrower]

thanks twin.. yeah im not really confusing the two setups.. but more was asking about both as two seperate questions... prob should just stick to the main.. which is wiring this up as a single flowering room.

I was planning to use 220v circuits.. i haven't been to the store yet.. but figured they would have 15 amp ones.. which would give me 3 needed circuits.. i guess if they have 20 amp breakers I would put 3 1000w a circuit x 2?

thanks for the help

I'll grab the specs and model number of a timer nib I already have.

would using a contactor and a smaller rated timer be a "better" solution?

and most importantly.. if I had all 6 1000k running through the one timer.. would that be alright for all to kick on at the same time? or should I have at least one more timer.. to make it staggered?

 

[EvilTwin]

GG,
No offense man, but if you can't do a simple load calculation, you shouldn't be designing complex installations.

I already answered that question. You're talking about less then 30 amps on a 40 amp timer hooked up to a 50 amp breaker. No problem with starting the lights all at the same time.

You should be able to run three 1000s on a 220v 20 amp circuit. 25 amps would give you a margin so that you could hook up fans or pumps or any other small stuff that might need to be on a 12 hour schedule. Just make sure you size the wire appropriate to the breaker.

Far as contactors. They're all the thing over in Europe, but in the US, most people just go with an adequately rated timer. I wouldn't say one is better then the other. Hopefully someone with contactor experience will chime in...
ET

 

[GorillaGrower]

haha no offense taken EvilTwin.. I think my problem is i didn't read your P.S at the bottom and fully understand it. I got it now Ill prob just keep it simple..use the timer i got and run the two or three runs of outlets off it.. i dont know... it sounds toooooo easy.

 

[EvilTwin]

GG,
The math works out ok. But that's assuming that your timer is a 40amp unit. It's confusing...I know. But no sense in getting carried away at this point if you don't have to.

Later, once you get involved in the flip flop thing, you can just run that off your sub-panel because you'll have quite a few amps to spare.
ET

 

[In Vino Veritas]

its so much easier to buy two 4k sentinel power boards.. they have a 6k and an 8k but IMHO that's too much amperage to have flip on at once..

these things are great.. you hardwire them to the circuit, and you plug in the 120v plug to a wall timer and it hits the relay and 4k up, 5min later the next one flips on.. fuck messing with electricity, I rather water by hand than figure out my power..

 

[GorillaGrower]

Good call In Vino Veritas .. sometimes just buying the good stuff .. puts you in a position to do what you do best.. spending less time on something your not specialized in is usually not good for productivity... and can be frustrating.

But,, spending the time and energy (especially if it interests you as a hobby to DIY) can be rewarding when you make your own.. and by the time you do it a second time.. you'll make one faster,cheaper, and security wise safer.. than buying one.

I also already have both contactors and timers sitting nib just itching to be used..

For me learning to wire any and everything safely gives me the opportunity to work solo and out of hydro stores... and I like that most .


anyways.. yeah i checked the timer i have is a 40 amp timer.. . I guess Ill wire it up 50amp breaker->plug->timer->subpanel->2x20ampbreakers->2x3outlets

thanks both of you guys for the input!

 

[EvilTwin]

GG,
I ran into an informative artice about load centers. You might want to read it just to expand your understanding.

http://www.maximumyield.com/article...yearVar=2008&issueVar=October&featureVar=true

One last thought...IF (and I think it's unlikely) your starting surge is a problem. The easiest and cheapest way to resolve it is to add a second timer and have half your lights start 5 minutes later. The control boards cost many hundreds of dollars whereas a second timer might set you back $40 or so.
ET

 

[whadeezlrg]

sorry to post a question, but i feel like it's relevant. is it possible to run 3-1ks for 12 hours, and then, on the same ballast switch to 3 different lamps in a different room, thus having 3 ballasts running 6 lights, 3 on each 12 hour cycle?

 

[GorillaGrower]

yes it is.. thats called a flipflop set up. you would use the contactors we were discussing to switch two rooms lampcords and the ballasts output.

 

[Lazyman]

I use a 50A circuit to run one CAP MLC-8T, turns on all 8 at once on one circuit, very simple and it never trips the breaker. That is the only piece you need to plug in 8 X240V lights up to 1000W each.

 

[whadeezlrg]

looks like ive got some reading to do, also a buddy of mine mentioned that the sodiums need to be ignited, so does the ballast turn off then back on?

 

[EvilTwin]

looks like ive got some reading to do, also a buddy of mine mentioned that the sodiums need to be ignited, so does the ballast turn off then back on?

No...
That just means that they have to be run in a proper HPS ballast that included a third component called an igniter. It produces high frequency electricity to energize and start up the bulb.
ET

 

[GorillaGrower]

yeah.. I dont know this for a fact at all.. but I think I read here or around that the digital ballasts need two timers so that they understand the flip.. otherwise it flips to the other room but the ballasts dont recognize to ignite the B room's lamps. so the ballasts are given no juice for a a few minutes.. then re energized after the flip.

so maybe thats what your talking about whadeezlrg?