Organic remedies for PM/spider mites?

[Irie_Lion]

fyi...i am not an expert on this product...i recommend reading all the info on their site...i was recommended this product from knowledgable respected people on this site...i've heard nothing but great things

fyahfohigha....from there website...For the first time, organic growers have access to a horticultural mineral oil that is 99% pure, contains zero percent aromatic content, is colorless, odorless, tasteless and is safe to field workers and the environment.....All "Food Grade Quality" Components ― Not only does the base oil in Organic JMS Stylet-Oil meet "Food Grade Quality" standards (b&c) but the Inert Ingredients in the emulsification system meet "Food Grade Quality" standards as well. This high level of purity makes Organic JMS Stylet-Oil the safest, most environmentally friendly mineral oil available to organic growers.

Irie_Lion...it was the concentrate that you mix yourself...fats in the oils clump up...you constantly have to keep agitating it while spraying because separation occurrs so quickly....do to this it's hard to get a consistant uniform spray...so some plants get a different strengths...the fried leaves happen when too much oil is absorbed by the leaves resulting in a dark green crispy fried leaf...like it just came out of the fryer

Gotcha...ive used them both and I know exactly what u mean now about constantly having to agitate it when applying the dilute one. Guess that would do it if its higher concentrations on some leaves . thanks for the clarification!

 

[3rd I]

CC...i use a Solo backpack sprayer...90 PSI...they do state the home gardener can use a pump sprayer somewhere on their site

 

[Lune TNS]

If you have to use a blender on organicide to mix it properly, then they should have included that info in the directions and on the label... unfortunately for my veg they didn't and I treated it like every other foliar spray I've ever used...


edit:

By the way i don't see on organicide label where it says to use a blender? Pretty sure i followed the directions

Beat me to it

 

[maryjohn]

CC...i use a Solo backpack sprayer...90 PSI...they do state the home gardener can use a pump sprayer somewhere on their site

that's what I would say too, if I wanted to sell it.

have you tried hitting it with a hand blender? lol.

let's not have an argument, let's discuss some ideas rationally.

My neem oil label says nothing about a hand blender either, it says "mix well", but I run out of energy before I ever get it to emulsify. So does organicide. Can you think of a more "well" way to mix than using a blender? it works man, try it with your neem oil, or mineral oil, or even vegetable oil. then say you got it from someone else, if you don't like me. We need to be a little more self reliant. if we aren't willing to even whip out a hand blender we will always be reliant on the grow industry spoon feeding us increasingly processed and expensive solutions to very simple problems.

ease of mixing is a perfectly valid criticism to make. up until recently had stopped using raw oils as a foliar spray for this very reason. now with my blender I am back baby!

 

[3rd I]

oh get over it...we live in a capitalistic society...people make products we buy them......by the way aren't neem and organide products sold with labels on them....or are you making them yourself...seems like your not so self reliant after all

It's not that i don't like you...obviously i don't even know you...but you make a lot of claims and give out a lot of advice with not much to back it up...also it seems that it's either your way or the highway

I mix 30-40 gallons of spray in the bush so i need something that emulsifies quickly and easily....JMS does this...plain and simple....no blender needed

edit: btw JMS is not an easy product to find....they don't market to hydro stores, unlike organicide...i had to special order 5 gallons and my guy who is very knowledgable had never even heard of it before...cost $66 bucks for each 2.5 gallon jug

 

[maryjohn]

oh get over it...we live in a capitalistic society...people make products we buy them......by the way aren't neem and organide products sold with labels on them....or are you making them yourself...seems like your not so self reliant after all

I don't use organicide because I suspect it doesn't work. Our discussion involved whether or not it kills plants. Pure neem oil comes with a pretty bare label since it can't be sold as a pesticide. officially it's a "leaf polish".

let me explain what I mean when I say we depend too much on the industry: in order to get a good foliar application, I have been buying neem extracts. Green light's neem extract ("hydrophobic extract of neem oil") and Safer's BioNeem , which lists azidthracin as the active ingredient.

Both of these products are inferior to cold pressed neem oil, but the fact is you drop them in water and they give you a totally uniform mix. BIG ADVANTAGE.

until the hand blender comes along and levels the playing field. now I can have my cake and eat it too. so the profits those company makes are only possible as long as I stay ignorant. yesterday I discovered one more thing of which I was completely ignorant - the use of kitchen skills in preparing garden remedies. that's gonna cost safer and green light quite a few bottles of neem over my lifetime.

capitalism is fine, but we have to be rational actors for it to work well. that's especially true of mj gardeners because they garden with high stakes.

 

[3rd I]

I don't use organicide because I suspect it doesn't work. Our discussion involved whether or not it kills plants.

First i never stated that it kills plants...i believe i said "messes with"...if any leaves have too much oil on them they will become fried by HPS, MH, T5's, and the sun...period...it does kill insects and keeps pm at bay but it does not kill it, in my experience...i used a whole bottle of concentrate over the course of this year indoors...but learned that 1/4 strength greatly reduced phytotoxicity...but i never lost one plant to it that's for sure

If you don't use it and believe it doesn't work why are you telling me to blend it and spray it on my plants when you have not tried it yourself (w/ your blender tech anyway)???

moving on.........

edit:this is from your other thread...so i guess neem doesn't work either....try JMS it kills PM on contact

I use neem on a plant that has chronic PM, of the species drosera adelae. this is the sundew you use to test if other sundews will get burnt by something because they are so sensitive. while I can't shake the PM, the plant survives the neem just fine. MJ is about 20 times tougher than that...

 

[maryjohn]

...because the blending would relieve the problem of oil pooling on the leaves and suffocating them. I was suggesting a solution to the observed problem, for the benefit of anyone else who is using it. Someone with a spray bottle would shake it occasionally, but if you were using a backpack sprayer it makes sense you might not be able to shake it.

that's not exactly an endorsement...

 

[Lazyman]

Safer is a OMRI spray that treats PM very well, they sell a concentrate too. Or use a suplhur burner, both are very effective, the burner more so because you're not wetting your plants down more.

Never found anything organic that kills mites, like you said Neem slows em down, but only Fluromite SC actually keeps em off the plants for a month (literally, I've seen webs of them on my medium, but not one mite on the plants.) They simply can't STAND plants that are treated with Fluoromite.

 

[maryjohn]

edit:this is from your other thread...so i guess neem doesn't work either....try JMS it kills PM on contact

neem works great as a preventive and less so as a treatment for PM, but this particular case is almost symbiotic. I bought it already infected in what CP growers call a "lowe's death cube". it was my first. sundews live in bogs, so the medium is always wet. It's almost impossible to control PM in that condition, and you can't spray too often or you get nitrogen in the soil.

For my little cabs, I don't use products to fight mildew, because I have control over the environment the fans stay on 24/7. I use neem for PM on squashes and such - outside.

as for "killing PM on contact", you should look into that statement in relation to the life cycle of PM, and whether or not that actually informs the consumer well.

 

[3rd I]

look at my threads bro i think i am pretty darn thorough in my research and how i do things...many respected members in this site have been using this product with great success against PM and it is from them i discovered JMS

some more info from their site...if you bothered to read it...this site has more info on their product then any i have ever seen...the main purchaser of their product is large organic farms not cannabis growers

Q: What is Stylet-Oil’s mode of activity against powdery mildew?
A: The oil is both an eradicant and protectant against mildew and works on the basis of physical contact. The oil disrupts cell walls of the organism resulting in death within seconds of contact and by interfering with attachment of the organism to its host. 1996 research has shown the oil 1) prevents mildew development; 2) kills infections before they become visible; 3) kills infections after they become visible; and, 4) preventsSevere powdery mildew on Chancellor grape cluster. Photo by P.Sholberg, Agriculture & AgriFood Canada. sporulation. One of the many benefits of using the oil is that it can be used as an eradicant, protectant and antisporulant.

What Makes Stylet-Oil Different
From Typical Horticultural Oils?

The base oil used to formulate JMS Stylet-Oil, Organic JMS Stylet-Oil and JMS Stylet-Oil for Grass Seed Use is defined in the industry as a Technical Grade White Mineral Oil (or white oil). The decision to provide growers with a technical grade white oil for disease and insect control was made more than two decades ago by JMS Flower Farms, Inc.

Providing growers with a highly refined, superior technical grade white oil has a number of advantages over non-white horticultural oils. The purity (or Unsulfonated Residue) of the base oil used in Stylet-Oil is 99.1%; the purity of non-white horticultural oils is typically 92%. This difference in purity can have significant consequences:

1. There is more active ingredient (ai) in white oils than in typical non-white horticultural oils;

2. White oils do not contain aromatic hydrocarbons, thus, these compounds are not freely evaporating into the atmosphere from spray applications. Typical 92% UR horticultural base oils can contain as much as 8% aromatic hydrocarbons — all of which evaporate into the atmosphere as air pollutants;

3. Included in these aromatics are Carcinogenic compounds such as benzene, toluene and Xylene. After refining, these compounds are not effectively removed from 92% UR oils but are removed using the refining processes to manufacture white oil;

4. Potential for phytotoxicity (plant injury) is minimized when using white oils due to the removal of impurities, including the aromatic compounds.

What Is White Mineral Oil?

White oils are tested by regulatory agencies, such as the United States Food & Drug Administration (FDA), the United States Pharmacopoeia (USP) and the National Formulary. Title 21 of the Code of Federal Regulations outlines criteria that must be met for defining white mineral oil. The base oil in Stylet-Oil meets requirements set forth in CFR 178.3620 (b) for technical white mineral oils. These requirements are met by additional steps in refinement, including high temperature and pressure referred to as hydrotreating. These steps insure the removal of impurities, providing a clean oil that meet the requirements for a white oil.

All in all, Stylet-Oil formulations provide you as a grower with a clear choice — a clean, high purity oil that has made it the leading choice amongst growers spraying food crops to control disease and insect pests.

 

[maryjohn]

I haven't said the product doesn't work. I don't care to speculate as to whether it does. Sounds like it's working for you though...

I raised a question about the marketing phrase "kills PM on contact". That can also be said of pure water, for it does indeed kill PM, and PM cannot live on a wet leaf.

remember this: if you are growing outside, mildew will happen under the right conditions no matter what you do. all these products can help, but when it really comes you are stabbing at waves.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

maryjohn, I hate to come off as a suck up, but I really like your way of thinking. Keep it coming!

 

[Irie_Lion]

What is the effectiveness of said oil (Organic JMS Stylet-Oil) when not using a backpack pump or any other high pressure device to spray the plants?? Just for smaller indoor applications using a standard nozzle spray bottle for example??

 

[fyahfohigha]

I have brewed ACTs with a very high active bacterial density which was effective on PM . Good chance it is similar to Serenade (sp?) in that respect. Strictly from observation and interviewing grape growers, I have a theory that fertilizers high in P promote PM. I believe better control occurs over time when natural growing techniques are used, especially if you can preserve your soil as a living entity, rather than hacking it up every planting.

For your PM situation right now, I'd try to get some Trichoderma harzianum spores and activate them overnight in some non-chlorinated room temperature water with a couple tablespoons of black strap molasses; then spray it on one of your plants the next morning. If it works then spray the rest. Use a pump up sprayer, squeeze sprayers trash the fungal hyphae. Thrichoderma hyphae destroys other fungi which makes me wonder why AN mixes it with mycorrhizal spores.
If you use Persimilis and Cucumerous (sp?) predators at the early stages of growth (next time) they will help considerably to control 2 spot mites and thrips. If you keep your soil alive, these insects will form colonies and reproduce and continue protecting your plants. I understand that many cannot keep larger growing containers so I guess you need to keep ordering insects periodically.

Good stuff. Have been using store bought versions of these (great white, and myco madness) and they work great at keeping it at bay, but it took a good spray of skim milk at the 1/9 ratio to really kill it off. These ate the best organic remedies so far, and hey work better then the Dutch Master Zone/Penetrator mix for sure (at least as a foliar, but the dutch mix is great as a dunk in veg.)!. Be careful with the molasses! go light at least. It works like a sun screen if left on and will mess up your leaves. Heard that if you feed them a good tea with rich in that stuff with some molasses, the molasses acts like a mild natural fungicide (not sure though). But seriously the milk is what is up! and the cheapest by far!

Any one know of a good organics systemic cure to get it out of cuts, and such? neem dunks? milk dunks!?!? haha LIKE DUNK'n OREO's mmmmm speaking of which, gunna go knife some SAWWEEEET brown shuggga; then take it to the filling and go dunk it down in OREO TOWN!

 

[planted1]

nematodes and beneficials are the best way to go, if u can fight it back with a predator mite or such then let the nematodes do the rest, as for the pm. infections points in you grow room and humidity need to be addressed before doing anything. after that the problem practically fixes itself. serenade is always a good tool

 

[maryjohn]

If you need to treat a wound, you can paint neem on with a brush.

 

[fyahfohigha]

Thanks Third I for the Stylet info! much appreciated! Just got a huge thing of JMS Stylet oil, for mites, and PM, (and I hope blight). I figured I've tried everything, but it. Although it says that there is no pre-harvest interval, and even suggests spraying the day before or after harvest on some plants (I'm guessing because it is OMRI, tasteless, and odorless), it goes on to say not to use it on table grapes 2 weeks before harvest? I am like 2 weeks from chop, and the mites seem to be showing up again last minute, (despite a soil drench of AZAMax), and the PM is pretty mild on my Blue Dreams, but I'm scared rot or PM will show up a day or two before chop like my OGs. Does anyone know how late I can use JMS, or if it will harm you if there is left over residue? Should i just rinse the flowers with high PH water the day or night before harvest, or will that help aid in PM-pro contidtions and a way longer dry time that close chop? Maybe a do it 2 or 3 days before? I have tried everything, and it seems like you have to do everything to win this battle...

educate, operate, medicate*

 

[pugnacious]

^ Keep everyone updated on how the JMS works. Im considering using it as a preventive spray for new soil and clones. And if the day comes my flowering room.

 

[maryjohn]

I would not spray flowers with any kind of oil.

You don't want to smoke that shit.