Organic remedies for PM/spider mites?

[Clackamas Coot]

3rd I

Besides the mineral oil used in the product that you linked to, I've also seen journal articles on soybean oil and even fish oil. Crocker's Fish Oil (Quincy, Washington) is a processor of fish oil (Omega-3) for humans, livestock and pets.

They also make a product from fish oil that's used as a miticide. I'm definitely not recommending it. Just provided as general information about the use of oils for both powdery mildew and mites.

CC

 

[3rd I]

OG JMS has an og emulsifier so it mixes with water very well and doesn't separate like fish and other oils...it's not heavy like other oils...i have used organicide and as stated it really messes with your plants...kinda makes the leaves look like you just fried them in fryer oil...like fried basil restaurants use as garnish...just used JMS on my moms a couple days ago...no problems everything looks great

edit:CC...btw definitly incorporating neem seed meal into next years mix...thanks

 

[fyahfohigha]

I've been struggling with mites this grow. I'm all organic, and stubborn about it, so the only thing I've done thus far is neem spray's and manual mite killing hunts. I didn't water with neem, but I should have. The spray's did wonders for us; we never quite got rid of them, but we beat them back real good for a long time. We aren't doing sprays now as it's too late in flower, and they have re-surged some, but I just keep vigilant and kill them when I see them (and rub the leaves between my thumb and index finger, even if I can't see them, hoping to dislodge eggs and smash any smaller mites I can't see).

After this grow, we will be disinfecting everything in our cab with a bleach solution. We're starting from seed this time too, so no clones can introduce them again (next time we do clones, we're doing neem dunks and sprays all through veg). I hope doing this a few times before starting the next grow will rid us of the problem, for now. I plan to do preventative neem sprays in veg from now on, in addition to adding some neem to the waterings through veg and into the first few weeks of flower.

yeah, on that regiment like white on rice. cleaning out can't happen any sooner. but until then it's nothing but top notch tidy. but maybe if possible blow a bomb or two after as well. bravo!

as for the JMS how late can it be used then without possible harm if ingested? even after harvest from what it sounded like...? (not that it would happen at that point). but until harvest? should you spray water? how often can you use it? thanks for the heads up. good input everyone.

 

[BowlPacks]

Azatrol will kill mites and eggs and is OMRI organic. I think Einstein neem is organic too. Since their both neem based I'd guess they would take care of PM too but I'm in Colorado, so I rarely, if ever, have to deal with PM. Mites on the other hand...

 

[fyahfohigha]

Backing off the neem, to prevent left over residue. If AZAmax is used will it leave a bad taste if ingested? or is it bad for your health?

 

[magiccannabus]

Tobacco and garlic are both excellent bug killers

 

[maryjohn]

I've used tobacco tea before, and it is a powerful knockdown poison. remember to boil it for a while to kill any virus it has.

you should not use it on a plant in flower. it's very toxic and can make you sick. kills everything including beneficials.

make sure you have that einstein oil in the soil. it will work that way. today, I just discovered the joys of the hand blender. by using a hand blender to mix up the neem oil with a bit of soap and water, you really get it to mix properly (takes on a milky look). neem oil is safe, so you can use the one you use for food.

 

[magiccannabus]

Yeah I cover my soil with aluminum foil before I do a tobacco foliar. I agree on boiling it, very true.

 

[Irie_Lion]

OG JMS has an og emulsifier so it mixes with water very well and doesn't separate like fish and other oils...it's not heavy like other oils...i have used organicide and as stated it really messes with your plants...kinda makes the leaves look like you just fried them in fryer oil...like fried basil restaurants use as garnish...just used JMS on my moms a couple days ago...no problems everything looks great

edit:CC...btw definitly incorporating neem seed meal into next years mix...thanks

Can u elaborate more on the Organicide and how it makes the leaves look fried?? I have used this product in the past on small clones, vegging plants and even into the 2-3rd week of flower with success and not had problems how u described. Did u use the premixed one or the one u have to dilute on your own?? Thanks

 

[3rd I]

fyi...i am not an expert on this product...i recommend reading all the info on their site...i was recommended this product from knowledgable respected people on this site...i've heard nothing but great things

fyahfohigha....from there website...For the first time, organic growers have access to a horticultural mineral oil that is 99% pure, contains zero percent aromatic content, is colorless, odorless, tasteless and is safe to field workers and the environment.....All "Food Grade Quality" Components ― Not only does the base oil in Organic JMS Stylet-Oil meet "Food Grade Quality" standards (b&c) but the Inert Ingredients in the emulsification system meet "Food Grade Quality" standards as well. This high level of purity makes Organic JMS Stylet-Oil the safest, most environmentally friendly mineral oil available to organic growers.

Irie_Lion...it was the concentrate that you mix yourself...fats in the oils clump up...you constantly have to keep agitating it while spraying because separation occurrs so quickly....do to this it's hard to get a consistant uniform spray...so some plants get a different strengths...the fried leaves happen when too much oil is absorbed by the leaves resulting in a dark green crispy fried leaf...like it just came out of the fryer

 

[maryjohn]

so the problem is your application, not the product.

check out my latest emulsification system: a hand blender.

 

[Microbeman]

I have brewed ACTs with a very high active bacterial density which was effective on PM . Good chance it is similar to Serenade (sp?) in that respect. Strictly from observation and interviewing grape growers, I have a theory that fertilizers high in P promote PM. I believe better control occurs over time when natural growing techniques are used, especially if you can preserve your soil as a living entity, rather than hacking it up every planting.

For your PM situation right now, I'd try to get some Trichoderma harzianum spores and activate them overnight in some non-chlorinated room temperature water with a couple tablespoons of black strap molasses; then spray it on one of your plants the next morning. If it works then spray the rest. Use a pump up sprayer, squeeze sprayers trash the fungal hyphae. Thrichoderma hyphae destroys other fungi which makes me wonder why AN mixes it with mycorrhizal spores.
If you use Persimilis and Cucumerous (sp?) predators at the early stages of growth (next time) they will help considerably to control 2 spot mites and thrips. If you keep your soil alive, these insects will form colonies and reproduce and continue protecting your plants. I understand that many cannot keep larger growing containers so I guess you need to keep ordering insects periodically.

 

[3rd I]

a little hard to use a blender in the bush...check out my outdoor thread...please don't insult me...the problem is the product

How much time passes before separation occurs after you blend MJ?

bottom line organicide looks like motor oil does not emulsify well

not trying to argue MJ...but you should give JMS a try before dismissing it...in my opinion it is by far superior to organicide

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Organicide is 92% fish oil, 5% sesame oil and 3% lecithin.

There's also a product with a very similar name that is used to clean up petrochemicals in ponds and lakes. Hopefully that product isn't being sold at the indoor garden stores - yikes!

CC

 

[maryjohn]

I will do a test to see how long oil stays emulsified. Is it ok if i just use neem oil for the test, since I don't particularly like this product? my creamy vinaigrette stays that way for days, and that's olive oil and balsamic only. I would emulsify with very little water, then combine it with the rest of your water later.

I didn't mean to insult you, but if it is not emulsified it is not properly applied, and that is the fault of the user. This is a drawback for a product as you pointed out, but seems a symptom of your situation, which may not be shared by all. Problem with the application is not an insult, just an observation, please don't take it personally. I've used organicide on other crops with no morbidity problems, but the label does tell you to test a small area before applying to the whole plant. The only issue, by the way, was that it didn't work. Either that, or there is nothing in there worth using. But now i've discovered the hand blender...

I'm not saying it's a good product, I am saying your description point to operator error, not product uselessness (which i do suspect in this case).

 

[3rd I]

I've used organicide on other crops with no morbidity problems

We're talking cannabis right?

I guess my point is you are promoting a technique that you just tried this morning for the first time...hence your other thread...with no real experimenting

I took it as insulting because although i don't post in OG Soil forum often i do read a lot and to be honest, you quite often insult a lot of people...would love to see some pics of your garden but you don't have pics in your albums...sorry bro but if you want me to take you seriously show your results...

 

[maryjohn]

oh, this old line... You don't like what I have to say so you are going after me instead. I don't keep albums here and I don't need to impress, and I try not to reveal autobiographical data. If what I have to say makes sense to you, confirm it for yourself. don't believe authorities. I'm not promoting a technique I am pointing out a flaw in your criticism of a particular product. Why you find that insulting I have no idea, although apparently it has something to do with who you think i am, not what I have to say.

I grow and have grown lots of things mostly things for consumption, and there is no line that separates them... On a scale of 1-10, 10 being the hardest, MJ is about a 3. It's a tough, scrappy species that does well despite all the crap people put on it.

using a hand blender works for neem oil and creamy vinaigrette. why would any oily product be different? yes I am a bit excited about this discovery, good point, but dammit it's a great idea. I have been using the principle in cooking for a long time.

on guerilla grows, by the way, I've concluded it is best to avoid monoculture and limit grower intervention. I would never venture towards my grow with a sprayer. root drenches with neem and regular amendments, and just hope. but i digress.

 

[nuttso]

go with co2. ask if u can get co2 generator for like one week under nice conditions and start gasing them for 20-30 min with 10000 ppm. The best way to kill pests.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

The manufacturer of Organic JMS Stylet Oil, has the following information about applying their product:

"When spraying for fungal disease control only, use at least 200 psi spray pressure and apply the recommended rate."

And further down the page is this:

"For insect and aphid-transmitted virus control we recommend the oil be applied at 400 psi spray pressure using ceramic hollow cone nozzles (Albuz ATR lilac color or HCA green color or their equivalent). This spray pressure / nozzle combination will produce tiny spray droplets with enough inertia and turbulence to penetrate to the under leaf surface where many greenhouse pests reside. In addition to enhanced spray coverage, tiny droplets minimize any risk from phytotoxicity from multiple applications under short spray intervals."

I take it from their web site that using a hand-pump sprayer that you might buy at HomeDepot isn't going to be effective. Sounds like a pretty serious investment given the pricing on commercial spray equipment used in horticulture and agriculture.

How are you applying it?

CC

 

[3rd I]

why would any oily product be different? are you serious

Right back at you with this old line again, it was a rhetorical question...

By the way i don't see on organicide label where it says to use a blender? Pretty sure i followed the directions

I am done with this petty argument....choose at your own risk, there are many options