FFOF Soil: Does it need to be mixed with anything?

[otherwhitemeat]

This honestly makes it seem like a great deal @ $16 a bag. A guy with a small personal grow can buy a bag or 2 at a time and avoid having to purchase and store amendments in bulk and mix up soil.

A lot of people seem to understand that they pay a premium for FFOF - and yet they continue to do so. I wonder why? They liked being fcked? I bet it is because FFOF is an easy solution and after all we are only talking about a few bucks (unless you go through a lot of soil) on a bag of soil). I go through less than one 1.5 cubic foot bag of soil a month so for me the extra cost is minimal.

Pine

If you get it for $16 a bag, that's pretty good.


For me, even $16 a bag couldn't make their quality control issues worth it. When I called them and told them that my bags were pretty much bags of yellow mold they said 'Just return it to the store for a full refund' Yeah, hydro store with a refund policy. OK. We know how that went.

That said, my last bag came with a new strain of fungus gnat to add to my collection, I am working on a new fungus gnat hybrid right now. I think these are from NYC, they chain smoke and use foul language and they are always up playing my video games.

FF told me on the phone that they use different 'regional mixes for convenience' (who's convenience?) That means that FF isn't the same on the West Coast as it is on the East Coast. The guy near me gets $25 a bag for FF, add a 60 minute roundtrip to get it and the business reasons for my switch come into sharper focus.

Not everyone's FF is created equal.

FF was great when I was new and didn't want to mess around with things I wasn't too sure about, but when I realized the problem I was one step closer to eliminating it. For the price I pay, it shouldn't need amendment.

 

[pinecone]

I know that I'm responding to something pretty early in this thread, but your success with FFOF without amendment depends a bit on your nutrients and water supply.

I started off using FFOF unamended (okay, I added a bit of perlite for drainage, but nothing else) and I had major cal/mag and pH issues. I have been adding dolomite since then and it cleared them up. My water has very little magnesium and only a small amount of calcium, so I have to add it one way or another - using dolomite which has the added bonus of pH buffering seems like a pretty good way to do so.

Well - you might have had problems because you diluted it with perlite. FFOF already bunch of perlite in it. If you add in 25% by volume you will have a mix that is very heavy on the perlite (50%+) relative to the humus and amendments. This makes nutrient deficiencies more likely (due to the reduced organic material in the soil) and increases the importance of PH (due to the reduce amount of humus). The crushed oyster shells that are in FFOF do provide Ca and Mg and also do the job of PH buffering. They are a substitute for dolomite lime.

My water is artesian well water. It PHs at about 8 and is probably high in Ca and Mg. The nutes I use (BioBizz) are known for containing very little Ca and Mg.

Part of my issue was that I was using the FF nutes which are not pH stable. I was pHing the water and then adding the nutes, because I thought that was what you were supposed to do and dropped the pH to the point of lockout.

I have no idea about the FF nutes as I don't use them. I have read (here) that some of them are very acidic though.

Pine

 

[baet]

In my mind a soil mix is just the start..

It's about managing the soil biology in such a way that our plants grow well!?

i totally agree, im saying when my plants are in beer cups, one gals, or 3 gals, i dump into FFOF so they stay healthy and happy without much effort or feeding. when i establish final 50 gal holes i throw in my own mix, which has EWC, mushroom compost, dolomite, horse manure barn chips, and a few other things, yes they need a fertile soil full of microbes and foods. when they are yungins and are only going to be in a small pot for maybe a week or two anyways before transplant, FFOF is easy

 

[Maxyeild]

you don't need to mix it with anything, I put clones right into it and they blow up all the way to the end. Only add nutes (Lucas) when the 1st little buds start to appear.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

FF told me on the phone that they use different 'regional mixes for convenience' (who's convenience?) That means that FF isn't the same on the West Coast as it is on the East Coast. The guy near me gets $25 a bag for FF, add a 60 minute roundtrip to get it and the business reasons for my switch come into sharper focus.

Not everyone's FF is created equal.

otherwhitemeat

The rumors about Fox Farm outsourcing their soil mixing has been around for a couple of years. Thanks for confirming what I was told by a private soil packing company up the road.

RootsOrganic also outsources their soil mixing using 4 different plants between Seattle, WA and Eugene, Oregon.

Heh.........

CC

 

[Clackamas Coot]

I have no idea about the FF nutes as I don't use them. I have read (here) that some of them are very acidic though.

Pine

Here's a link to the analysis of the Fox Farm's Tiger Bloom product.

Note the extremely high levels of zinc in this product. I'm not sure why that is but it's off the chart.

Here's the analysis of Fox Farm's Grow Big - same deal with the extremely high levels of zinc.

CC

 

[JackTheGrower]

It Means wherever Labor is cheaper. Raw materials are corporate for the most part. Production managers seldom know - they get a sheet of numbers to get values for their decision formulas.. Am I wrong?

If you get it for $16 a bag, that's pretty good.


For me, even $16 a bag couldn't make their quality control issues worth it. When I called them and told them that my bags were pretty much bags of yellow mold they said 'Just return it to the store for a full refund' Yeah, hydro store with a refund policy. OK. We know how that went.

That said, my last bag came with a new strain of fungus gnat to add to my collection, I am working on a new fungus gnat hybrid right now. I think these are from NYC, they chain smoke and use foul language and they are always up playing my video games.

FF told me on the phone that they use different 'regional mixes for convenience' (who's convenience?) That means that FF isn't the same on the West Coast as it is on the East Coast. The guy near me gets $25 a bag for FF, add a 60 minute roundtrip to get it and the business reasons for my switch come into sharper focus.

Not everyone's FF is created equal.

FF was great when I was new and didn't want to mess around with things I wasn't too sure about, but when I realized the problem I was one step closer to eliminating it. For the price I pay, it shouldn't need amendment.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

It Means wherever Labor is cheaper. Raw materials are corporate for the most part. Production managers seldom know - they get a sheet of numbers to get values for their decision formulas.. Am I wrong?

JackTheGrower

Actually it's not that complicated. Peat moss is dumped into the soil mixing machines, amendments are added and you 'let her spin' for about 30 minutes and there is a roll of bags (with the really kewl graphics) and the soil is dumped into the bag (takes less than 10 seconds) and then the bag is sealed and the workers pull the completed bag off the machine and stacked onto a pallet and then shrink-wrapped.

Having soil mixed and bagged costs about $.50 per 1 or 1.5 c.f. bag of soil with a minimum of at least 120 bags, i.e. 2 pallets or so.

Pretty cheap actually.

HTH

CC

 

[JackTheGrower]

JackTheGrower

Actually it's not that complicated. Peat moss is dumped into the soil mixing machines, amendments are added and you 'let her spin' for about 30 minutes and there is a roll of bags (with the really kewl graphics) and the soil is dumped into the bag (takes less than 10 seconds) and then the bag is sealed and the workers pull the completed bag off the machine and stacked onto a pallet and then shrink-wrapped.

Having soil mixed and bagged costs about $.50 per 1 or 1.5 c.f. bag of soil with a minimum of at least 120 bags, i.e. 2 pallets or so.

Pretty cheap actually.

HTH

CC

I'm just mad looking for work I guess.. That's good info CC.

 

[B.C.]

lol

lol

my first harvest from a container ever

...and yer giving people adivce on soil??? LOLOL! Maybe you should come back after you have grown a few thousand in containers, and we'll talk. BC

 

[maryjohn]

my first container harvest of mj ever, not my first time using a container to grow plants. And I gave no advice, other than to say how easy it was to move inside with LC's mix. should have been more clear.

I am using it for all kinds of things now. It's my main container mix, and everything transplanted to it does better than what i was getting before.

when I've grown a few 1000 pots of mj, will my words be imbued with some magic essence that bestows veracity? why the hell would you believe someone based on the amount of whatever they claim to have grown. confirm things yourself, don't take anyone's word.

 

[JackTheGrower]

my first container harvest of mj ever, not my first time using a container to grow plants. And I gave no advice, other than to say how easy it was to move inside with LC's mix. should have been more clear.

I am using it for all kinds of things now. It's my main container mix, and everything transplanted to it does better than what i was getting before.

when I've grown a few 1000 pots of mj, will my words be imbued with some magic essence that bestows veracity? why the hell would you believe someone based on the amount of whatever they claim to have grown. confirm things yourself, don't take anyone's word.

You are a brave f*er ya know.. LOL

 

[B.C.]

why the hell would you believe someone based on the amount of whatever they claim to have grown. confirm things yourself, don't take anyone's word.

Well, mister first MJ harvest ever, maybe you should take yer own advice. I -have- grown thousands of MJ plants in FFOF soil over the years, I'm not taking someone elses word for it. CONFIRMED! This is why I think it's worth it...... You? no, yuv never grown MJ in it, at all, and yet let on like it's the biggest ripoff in the world. So how do -you- know it doesn't grow the very best MJ plants you can grow? You have nothing to base it on, did ya take someones word for it? lol... You have had one MJ harvest and act like you know it all about everything on every subject. I think yer purty funny! BC

 

[maryjohn]

Well, mister first MJ harvest ever, maybe you should take yer own advice. I -have- grown thousands of MJ plants in FFOF soil over the years, I'm not taking someone elses word for it. CONFIRMED! This is why I think it's worth it...... You? no, yuv never grown MJ in it, at all, and yet let on like it's the biggest ripoff in the word. So how do -you- know it doesn't grow the very best MJ plants you can grow? You have nothing to base it on, did ya take someones word for it? lol... You have had one MJ harvest and act like you know it all about everything on every subject. I think yer purty funny! BC

I didn't say it was my first MJ harvest ever. And I didn't say FF doesn't work. I do know more or less what it's made of, and that if you just get the components it's a better use of your money. I didn't have to buy anything to make LC's mix, because it's all common stuff I was using to make my previous mix (except I had vermiculite before).

I tried to make a point about getting your money's worth. For some reason this is taken as a personal insult. Let me remind you that Maryjohn is not a real person, he is a character who knows a thing or two but is by no means a master of anything. His opinion is not so important you should get offended, even if you are attached to a particular brand of dirt bags. It's also futile to impugn the credentials of someone who does not exist.

it was a good point to say as long as you are mixing something with FF why not make your own mix.

 

[DJXXPLATINUM]

i have noticed that ffof is a little hot!!! so i put 1/3 light warrior in there until the plants are past the 5th set of leaves and then transplanted into full strength ffof!!!!jus my 2 cents!!!djxx

 

[RockyMountainHi]

my first container harvest of mj ever, not my first time using a container to grow plants. And I gave no advice, other than to say how easy it was to move inside with LC's mix.

And, according to some - you go to hell for lying.

What you do is tell people what not to do - even if you never used that method, product or skew.

Fact is, others have failed using LC's mix - other's have failed using Fox Farms.

And some have succeded. Some have improved and yet others found improvments to FF and LC's methods.

I used to think it was related to local water - and I'm sure it has substantial influence. But it's more - it's ,,, well,,,, come back after a few harvests - and a couple fall on your face excursions. - It will happen.

I've been around long enough to fail - more than once. Interesting thing about my failures - most are better that anything else local - so my good shit - is prime.

And I'll let you in on a secret, I learned a fuck of a lot more from my failures than I ever learned from my successes.

Shine

 

[maryjohn]

read carefully and perhaps you can identify the pertinent modifiers: I just finished my first ever indoor MJ grow, which was also my first MJ container grow. I never said my first MJ grow. I started guerilla gardening in high school, with a big bag of lime and some miracle gro. and don't confuse commentary with advice. you don't need a license to post here and I imply nothing about my credentials.

I'm getting a bit tired being a straw man. I made a limited criticism of one product, and of the grow industry in general. having made the migration over from the organic gardening circles I usually frequent to an MJ oriented spot, I find the consumer ethos rather confounding. that's a valid point of view that reflects my own experience. I can say with confidence that bullshit quotient is very high in a grow store, because I know better from growing lots of stuff, not just MJ. FF products cater to and reinforce that culture.

gotta go, making some steak with corn I grew, tomatoes I grew, peppers I grew, and garlic I grew, with some basil I grew on top. of course, those are all completely different from MJ, the special plant unrelated to any other plant.

by the way I will stay off the thread so you can have your conversation in peace as long as i stop getting attacked.

 

[BurnOne]

by the way I will stay off the thread so you can have your conversation in peace as long as i stop getting attacked.

If anyone attacks you, let me know. I'll take care of it.

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Burn1

 

[Phillthy]

1 1.5cf bag ffof
1/2 3.8cf bail of promix bx
3/4 cup dolimite lime
1 cup blood meal
1 cup bone meal
earth worm casings to taste..lol kelp too.
20% more perlite

mix goes 90+ days with just water.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

FFOF

FFOF

B.C.

Report from the trade show that I attended today with regard to Fox Farms and their products.

Actually I was surprised on how small their booth was given the other 850 exhibitors - whatever.

I was kind in asking specific questions and basically their deal is that they need to expand their retail distribution deal, i.e. selling primarily to 'grow stores' or 'indoor garden' operations is a non-starter meaning that they cannot expect to see increases in their sales with this limited customer base. That's pretty evident in that pot growers just don't buy enough of their products to see a growth paradigm.

I noted that since they're so 'pot' oriented it definitely limits their potential to grow their business - no pun intended.

For mainstream garden operations they will continue to push their 'Peace of Mind' products and keeping the Happy Frog fertilizers limited to the grow store industry regardless that they're the EXACT same formulas.

I asked specific question on who or who is not 'packing' their products and I received the anticipated answer that 'this is proprietary information' and I find no fault with that answer. They've created a specific market demographic (which is pretty limited) but that they're looking to expand their customer base, i.e. getting their products into mainstream nursery centers vs. grow stores. A good idea, IMHO

I was very nice and in fact they gave me a 'freebie' for 3 bags of the FFOF product which I accepted and thanked them for their largess. I dropped of the freebie off at a MMJ center which will pass that on to MMJ growers who are short of cash.

Bottom line - FF has a definite market (grow stores) but they want to move the sales forward by selling to customers at mainstream nursery garden stores. They recognize that they have a ton of work to accomplish before that can happen.

Nice folks but complete and totally delusional about the soil and/or fertilizer market as it relates to commercial growers.

Besides the 'freebie' they also gave me/us several samples of their standard products as well as products that they're considering bringing to the public.

All in all they're doing a good job as it relates to pot growers but they recognize that they have to adjust pricing and products before they can 'grow their business' (again no pun intended).

All in all it was a very good experience attending this trade show. With over 850 exhibitors there was a plethora of products and processes exhibited.

Peace......

CC