spinosad, How does it work.

[Bulldog11]

As the title explains, I was wondering how the spinosad works. I have herd it does wonders, however, my plants are just starting to develop buds. Should I not spray on the buds? Also, is this an organic method? Does it work on aphids also? Any help would be great.



Edit: I was looking to use this product for caterpillars and aphids.

 

[nomaad]

if you want to go for an organic in-flower control for aphidfs, I hear that letting predator nematodes loose on your soil will kill em where they pupate. I know this works for thrips and I know it was suggested that it works for aphids as well. If you already have em in your foliar zone, I have no advice. I had thrips in my last harvest that became apparent during flower... did nothing about them, but thrips mostly attack the leaves... so its almost ignorable because as flower goes on, i trim most of the leaves successively anyway. You can always supplement in the soil what they lose from the leaves. aphids mine your stems, right... so this means less of the soil nutes getting to your buds. I would want them gone.

I am hopefully getting my nematodes next week. No thrips, no aphids. I will use pyrethrins one last time in a foliar application at the same time as i apply the soil treatment.

 

[nomaad]

From Wikipedia:

Spinosad (spinosyn A and spinosyn D) are a new chemical class of insecticides that are registered by the United States Environmental Protection Agency‎ (EPA) to control a variety of insects. The active ingredient is derived from a naturally occurring soil dwelling bacterium called Saccharopolyspora spinosa, a rare actinomycete reportedly collected from soil in an abandoned rum distillery on a Caribbean Island in 1982 by a scientist on vacation[1] . It has not been found in nature since that time, and was subsequently described as a new species. The bacteria produce compounds (metabolites) while in a fermentation broth. The first fermentation-derived compound was formulated in 1988. Spinosad has since been formulated into insecticides that combine the efficacy of a synthetic insecticide with the benefits of a biological pest control organism.

Mode of action

Spinosad kills susceptible species by causing rapid excitation of the insect nervous system. Due to this unique mode of action, Spinosad is valued in resistance management programs. Spinosad must be ingested by the insect, therefore it has little effect on sucking insects and non-target predatory insects. Spinosad is relatively fast acting. The insect dies within 1 to 2 days after ingesting the active ingredient and there appears to be no recovery.

I wouldn't use it in flower.

 

[3rd I]

Captain Jack's Dead Bug...spinosad product from bonide kills on contact...i have used a dropper to put it on fungus gnats, roaches, ants...it kills...wouldn't spray after week 2 of flower

 

[nomaad]

its basically a bug neurotoxin. chemical warfare. fuck that shit. i don;t think i would use it in week anything of anything.

 

[3rd I]

from bonide's website

Captain Jack's Deadbug Brew contains Spinosad (spin-OH-sid), a naturally occuring soil dwelling bacterium that was collected on a Caribbean island from an abandoned rum distillery in 1982. Deadbug Brew kills bagworms, borers, beetles, caterpillars, codling moth, gypsy moth, loopers, leaf miners, spider mites, tent caterpillars, thrips and more!

ooops nomaad already posted this info...i don't like spraying anything ever but if ya have to ya have to and this will kill em

 

[nomaad]

but its not the bacteria... or not from what i understand in the wiki, but rather a chemical neurotoxin DERIVED from the naturally occuring bacteria. big big difference to me.

 

[3rd I]

some more product info:

Captain Jack's Dead Bug Brew....This all-natural spray controls or eradicates armyworms, leafminers, thrips, and worms in your garden and yard. Use the convenient sprayer nozzle and apply the product evenly to your apple trees, tomatoes, melons, broccoli, peas, and lettuce plants. On select plants, this mixture can even be applied as little as one day prior to harvest. The active ingredient, Spinosad, derives from naturally occurring bacteria and is listed as an organic substance with the USDA, for use in organic and natural gardens. The adjustable nozzle on the bottle can shoot the liquid in a strong, direct line, or a more gentle, wide fan pattern, and the product can be used up to 6 times per growing season if needed. Have a pest free garden or lawn in a natural way using this Captain Jack's Dead Bug Brew. Made in the USA.

 

[nomaad]

Interesting. I have said in other threads that I don't consider USDA organic certification to be meaningful. When faced with the choice of conventional vs usda organic, i'll always go with conventional. The USDA was going to allow sewage sludge to be used on food that it certifies. Forget about the basic ew reaction to human shit for a minute and think of all the heavy metals and prozac that amricans shit out.... bigger ew. sorry. no usda for me.

I'm still not convinced I hate spinosad in light of it being charcterized as it is on that label. I will have to do more research to be a believer one way or the other.

 

[nomaad]

i am using neem, but i am very wary of azatrol. neem works, so why start deriving shit. i dunno. maybe i am being a hypocrite. i use pyrethrins... derived from chrysanthemums... where do I draw the line?

 

[3rd I]

I myself am switching to Organic JMS stylet oil for all disease and insects....pickiing up 5 gallons tomorrow actually....i have been using safer 3 in 1 for PM but it hasn't killed it, just kept it at bay...JMS is supposed to kill PM and insects...so i am excited to see how it works...heard lots of promising things


http://www.stylet-oil.com/

from their website
Fungal diseases can reduce the quality and yield of many agronomic crops, including grape, tree fruit, grass seed and vegetable crops. Until now, fungicides available to growers have worked primarily at the biochemical level making them prone to chemical resistance from repeated application. Chemicals which worked at the physical level ― notably sulfur ― had to be sprayed as protectants, limiting their usefulness under heavy disease pressure.

Stylet-Oil brings to growers a new dimension for disease control. Not only does the oil work at the physical level (meaning there is practically no chance for resistance to develop) but the oil acts as both an eradicant as well as a protectant against powdery mildew diseases. Stylet-Oil has demonstrated broad spectrum activity against many ecto-parasitic fungi, including powdery mildew, rust, Alternaria, gummy stem blight and Botrytis.

Recent research (1996) by Dr. John Northover and K. E. Schneider (Plant Management Research Centre, Ontario, Canada) shows Stylet-Oil to have four distinct physical modes of action as a fungicide against grape powdery mildew:

* protective (prevents disease before inoculation and infection)
* pre-lesion (suppresses an infection before it occurs)
* post-lesion (deactivation of a visible infection)
* antisporulant (may result from curative treatments made either before or after lesion appearance)

Stylet-Oil has excellent eradicant activity against powdery mildew diseases and will kill powdery mildew within seconds of contact. In addition, depending on the use rate, Stylet-Oil will prevent powdery mildew development for 10 to 14 days.

The Need For Quality Spray Coverage:
Because Stylet-Oil works on the basis of physical contact, the performance of the oil is directly related to the quality of the spray coverage. Many grape growers have witnessed this effect first-hand when spraying the oil on severely infected grape. Since the oil kills mildew on contact, Stylet-Oil can be used as a "spray marker" to determine the quality of the spray coverage. This relationship is expressed in a simple equation:

Remember: 50% Spray Coverage = No More Than 50% Kill

Thorough coverage of fruit bunches and foliage is necessary for optimum performance. To enhance thorough spray coverage ―

* maintain a constant tractor speed
* if necessary, remove excess foliage during the season so the spray can reach fruit bunches
* check nozzles for wear before and during the season. Replace worn nozzles when they eject 10% more gallonage than new nozzles
* spray every row, never alternate rows
* do not spray when wind speed exceeds 10 mph or apply the oil to wet foliage
* vary the volume of dilute spray according to the size / density of the spray target
* spray to the point of runoff

Method of Application
Type of sprayers used to apply Stylet-Oil as a fungicide:

* orchard or speed sprayer
* air assist
* hydraulic boom sprayer
* Kinkelder electrostatic

Spray Pressure: Spray pressure may vary depending on the type of sprayer used. Generally small spray droplets provide better spray coverage (i.e., protection) than larger droplets. However, when using air assist sprayers, small spray droplets injected into a rapidly moving air stream are prone to evaporation before contact with the target. For thisSpray Droplet Size Comparison reason growers should strive to find the "sweet spot" that maximizes coverage but minimizes evaporation of spray droplets. Note: We do not recommend low volume electrostatic sprayers or mist blowers to apply the oil because coverage will be compromised from lack of dilute spray volume. NOTE: Reducing the size of the spray droplet by one-half results in 8 times more droplets to impinge on the target (see graphic).

Tractor Speed: Tractor speed may vary depending on the type of crop or sprayer used for application. Adjust tractor speed to achieve spray coverage to the point of runoff. On large fruit trees the tractor speed may be 1 to 2 mph; on row crops it may be 3 to 4 mph.

Constant Agitation: Use either mechanical or bypass agitation in the spray tank to insure the oil remains an emulsion in the tank. Never leave a spray tank mix of oil + water overnight to be sprayed out the next day.

Application Rate And Spray Frequency
Spray Concentration: Rate may vary depending on the pest or crop ― consult the current label. Use a higher spray concentration when disease pressure is moderate to highPM On Grape Foliage and the label specifies a concen- tration range (such as 1 to 2%).

Gallonage: Gallonage may vary depending on the pest or crop ― consult the current label. From 25 to 150 gallons of dilute spray emulsion per acre depending on plant size. Growers should adjust gallonage according to the size / density of the spray target to achieve thorough coverage to the point of runoff. Gallonage should be adjusted by:

* adding or removing spray nozzles
* changing the nozzle orifice size
* on large tree fruit / nut crops, by adjusting tractor speed

We do not recommend adjusting spray pressure to vary the gallonage as this will affect the size of the spray particle.

Spray Frequency: Spray frequency may vary depending on the pest or crop ― consult the current label. Use a shorter spray interval when disease conditions are severe. Stylet-Oil may be used to prevent certain fungal diseases or as a post-infection (eradicant) spray after infection has occurred. However, taking the necessary steps to prevent a problem has more merit than reacting to disease after it has occurred. This may mean growers will be spraying when disease symptoms are not visible, but that is the basic concept behind spraying oil as a fungicide in an oil prevention program.

Re-entry Interval ― The re-entry interval (REI) of Stylet-Oil is 4 hours.
Residue Tolerance ― Stylet-Oil has no residue tolerance level.
Pre Harvest Interval ― There is no pre harvest interval.

 

[Bulldog11]

Thanks everybody for all the responses. So far, it seems most people don't think this product is a great idea. My local nursery talked me out of buying it about a month ago also, said it is possible that the missing bee 's could be linked to this product. This product came out around the same time bee's starting disappearing.


The main reason I wanted to use this product is because of caterpillars. Last year caterpillars cut my harvest in half. I used Safer brand Caterpillar Killer, and it didn't seem to do the trick. Is there a predator that will take care of caterpillars? Another product that works and is safe? Keep the info coming and thanks in advance.

 

[Bulldog11]

bump

 

[nomaad]

I myself am switching to Organic JMS stylet oil for all disease and insects....pickiing up 5 gallons tomorrow actually....i have been using safer 3 in 1 for PM but it hasn't killed it, just kept it at bay...JMS is supposed to kill PM and insects...so i am excited to see how it works...heard lots of promising things

Looking forward to your trials with this.

The main reason I wanted to use this product is because of caterpillars. Last year caterpillars cut my harvest in half. I used Safer brand Caterpillar Killer, and it didn't seem to do the trick. Is there a predator that will take care of caterpillars? Another product that works and is safe? Keep the info coming and thanks in advance.

bump

That's discouraging. When did you find the caterpillars? How long till you you sprayed the safer? How often?

I will look at the research i was doing on predators and see if there is one for caterpillars.

 

[nomaad]

I had seen one.

Trichogramma Egg Wasps -Trichogramma sp.

* T. minutum - for ornamentals, orchards and grapes east of the Rockies
* T. platneri - for avocados, ornamentals, orchards and grapes west of the Rockies
* T. pretiosum - for use on vegetable and field crops
* T. bactrae - pink bollworm and other tiny eggs

Trichogramma Minutum, Platneri, Pretiosum, Bactrae , and Brassicae.
Trichogramma spp.: T. brassicae, T. minutum, T. pretiosum, are Moth Egg Parasitoids capable of reducing caterpillar pests.

from: http://www.buglogical.com/trichogramma_control_armyWorms/trichogramma.asp

PS.. there are discussions about caterpillars going on in at least 3 highly active OD threads. We should unite and form Voltron.

 

[coxswain]

Thanks everybody for all the responses. So far, it seems most people don't think this product is a great idea. My local nursery talked me out of buying it about a month ago also, said it is possible that the missing bee 's could be linked to this product.

Around here Spinosad is marketed under LASER brand name. It was responsible for 12% of dead bees when we had an incident. The main reason was fipronil. I can get it but I'm not so sure I wan't to use it.

 

[baet]

i dont know why you guys haten on the spinosad. its OMRI listed in products such as monterey garden insect spray.

http://www.planetnatural.com/site/monterey-garden-insect.html

check it out. if you check out the sticky on thrips in the infermery, the guy who made it will tell you that spinosad out of all the other brands and techniques is most effective against thrips, and one application usually stops thrips in their trakcs. foliar leaves, and apply to soil as well to kill eggs. im geting some tomorow! oh yeah, people use spinosad well into flowering.

 

[coxswain]

i dont know why you guys haten on the spinosad. its OMRI listed in products such as monterey garden insect spray.

Hate? Strong word. But I'm not using an insecticide that kills bees. If it's bad for them it could be bad for me. It's neurotoxin. You would use it well into flower? Enjoy your smoke.

 

[nomaad]

thanks for the counter-intel. OMRI listing is much more rigorous than USDA. I will read the sticky you mention and look into the products.

 

[nephilthim]

it breaks down into nitrate or phosphate after a period of time they recomend spacing applications 4-8 times max and usually 30 days before ingesting for fruits vegtables though I remeber asparagus said 60 days before consumption after application probably o.k. up to week 2 of flowering or use just in veg .