You Can Have Maximum Yield --AND-- Maximum Quality in Every Harvest

[Douglas.Curtis]

I don't believe you can have maximum yield for your wattage... AND maximum quality possible for your strain. In my experience the two are mutually exclusive.

In my opinion, you can have great yields of excellent quality, while you lose some of the extreme quality.

What's your opinion?

 

[CannaRed]

I kinda look at it as your plant is only gonna produce X amount of trichomes.
When you increase flower yield you are mostly just increasing the space between those trichomes.

Not sure if that's true with every strain. That's just how I think about it

 

[englishrick]

I'm hoping to improve both from the point I'm at now,, but I have made a mistake for ages using a hps to veg in pre flower,, years ago I was a solid mh to hps bulb switcher but I got lazy,, i now see I can limit stalk groth and increase bud yeald with a few tweeks

i have my feeding tech down to a T,,, but my lighting was letting things stretch

My yealds have been horrible for yeald since 2010 and I just stopped switching bulbs, i have definitely had a serious lesson in yeald over the past few years,, blue is a godsend for yeald and I've noticed better terpenoids using blue and purple too

I found my method stops leaf production and increases stalk length,, but leaves can taste good so I've decided to let them grow less steam and more leaves

 

[NEW ENGLAND]

I think I would have a better chance at achieving both if you could swing by weekly.lol
That's actually a compliment D.C I have read some of your posts in various threads,I'll admit you are above my pay grade with your obvious knowledge of plants.

 

[englishrick]

It depends what your target goal is,, thc production,, terp production per kg,, calax only,, leafy,, etc,, some weed like to be a lil leafy like Hindu kush

 

[Dropped Cat]

I don't believe you can have maximum yield for your wattage... AND maximum quality possible for your strain. In my experience the two are mutually exclusive.

In my opinion, you can have great yields of excellent quality, while you lose some of the extreme quality.

What's your opinion?

Such an interesting point of view.

In my grows, the phenos do what they do with the
parameters dictated by the lights, nutes and temps,
pot size and length of veg time.

Some genetics express maximum characteristics
under the set regime while others not so much.

Lesser yielding types, I just flower more of them to
yield the grams I want.

I'm not going to reinvent process to increase yield
in lesser plants at the expense of the mean.

Good thread!

 

[englishrick]

I have found cookies to be rather a challenging plant to grow as it doesn't like phosphorus or potassium,, optimum flavor is a really important subject

 

[GOT_BUD?]

I was listening to a podcast where they discussed this very thing.

I don't recall who it was, but in their opinion, yes, maximum quality does sacrifice a small percentage of yield.

I do remember he was a big living soil guy, and was working with Gold Leaf in WA I believe.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Appreciate everyone sharing, it's definitely a subject with a lot of variables.

The clarification of what your goals are is a very good point, englishrick. While I made the post from the standpoint of a smoker, the answer is probably different for oil. Can you make maximum oil weight, and oil quality at once? Something tells me this might be an easier goal than maximum yield and superior smoking quality.

Keep in mind, my opinion is also that **most** tokers/growers have not experienced extreme quality. I'd say quite a bit more than average between icmaggers though, there's some seriously taaasty looking flowers being posted here regularly. I'd give this poll on icmag a bit more weight than from other demographics.

CannaRed, this is my philosophy as well. We're creating a carpet under the trichomes, and I want to smoke as little carpet as possible. lol If I could grow a network of trichomes without plant... I'd do it.

englishrick, I'm a big fan of switching spectrums at different stages... just never had the equipment to do so before. LEDs are making this a reality for more growers. The taste thing is definitely affected by pushing for yield, at least in my opinion.

NEW_ENGLAND, greatly appreciate the words, and I would if I could ya know. I look forward to the opportunity to trade some day.

Dropped_Cat, you make good points for your style. So you're looking more for strains/phenos which really like your environment as is. Have you thought about the spectrum shifting capability LEDs bring to the table?

GOT_BUD? That's interesting... if you find the link in your history I'd love to listen as well. Ty.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

Wholeheartedly agree with you Douglas.

The problem is either genetic or simply forcing events by environmental factors.

It seems like if I can finish a great strain outdoors I can sometimes get the best of both worlds...

But I never cover my ladies from rain so I doubt that quality is better than indoor runs of the same cut, yet it does seem better to me quite often.

 

[Drop That Sound]

Suppose it's possible, say you harvested 2 crops (in the same room with different configs) at the same time. One grown for quality, and one for the yield. A harvest is a harvest right?

 

[englishrick]

Depending on the target market,, no a harvest is not a harvest when you need to sell it to survive,,,,

yeald,, blend,,, additives,, processing,, product delivery,, it all amounts to keeping the prosses self perpetual,,, maintaining interest and investment is sometimes an ultimate priority

Personality I run yealding clones and persi clones under the same system,,, the clones I live seem to be the lowest yealding and not feasible as a money maker

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

you are mostly just increasing the space between those trichomes.

Great point, I've been thinking along these exact lines for some years now CannaRed. I think some nutrients and light spectrums cause more vegetative growth (than we'd like during flowering). And if the limit of # of trichomes is genetic (which I think it is), feeding or lighting that increases that vegetative mass while leaving the trichome count the same will reduce potency by increasing weight.

So yeah Douglas, I agree.

 

[englishrick]

Definitely,,, i absolutely agree,, thc% is litrally a surface area deal,,, tric size is more my bag,, i like to look at a bud and not need a microscope to see glands

 

[SuperBadGrower]

Sure, higher ratios of blue light have been shown to increase flavinoids, cannabinoids, terpenoids, at the cost of yields compared to plants grown under lower B:R ratios. In various peer reviewed studies. Mnay of the pigments that increase quality but also potency are in the UV range. I think it's also a genetic thing where plants which are selected to be huge yielders are usually lower THC content.
In the 80s/90s there was a lot of drama about new hydro tomatoes because they were huge in size but lacking in flavor (sugars). Everybody was quick to blame hydroponics and mineral nutrients. In reality, the problem was with the genetics. They had been breeding for yield and ease of cultivation.

 

[TychoMonolyth]

Only by accident.

 

[rjrom90]

The key to maximizing quality and yield is trace mineral balancing. Most hydroponic nutrients do not contain a full range of balanced trace minerals, but when plants are supplied with all necessary trace minerals (enzyme cofactors) plants can work at their full genetic potential to produce a much higher yield of flower as well as essential oils/trichomes.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

I think it's also a genetic thing where plants which are selected to be huge yielders are usually lower THC content.
In the 80s/90s there was a lot of drama about new hydro tomatoes because they were huge in size but lacking in flavor (sugars). Everybody was quick to blame hydroponics and mineral nutrients. In reality, the problem was with the genetics.

Exactly, SuperBadGrower. I think cannabis breeders and growers kind of learned about the yield vs quality thing back in the day with the 'Bigbud' strain. I for one, only consider yield after smells, tastes and effects are on point. Other traits are just higher (no pun intended) priority. Pretty sure most other breeders are doing the same. It's interesting to note that vegetable breeders are breeding for flavor more recently too.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Neck and neck... with small rocks trailing by quite a distance. Thoroughly enjoying the conversation, thank you.

 

[GOT_BUD?]

GOT_BUD? That's interesting... if you find the link in your history I'd love to listen as well. Ty.

I believe it was this episode of the KIS Organics podcast.

https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/cannabis-cultivation-and-science-podcast-episode-51

Or it was episode 40 or 41 with Jeremy Plumb.

I've been listening to this at work a lot lately, and they all kind of blend together.