Using Colchisine to create new plants

[Bass Akwards]

Been There - Done That

Been There - Done That

The bottom line?

Lots of hassle and frustration with little, if any, beneficial effect.

It's not that hard to soak seeds in water, then a colchicine solution, and get a large lump in the root when the sprout emerges. That's the mark of a change to polyploid.

That's when the trouble begins ... the sprouts refuse to grow. Most will just sit there after planting, like many other runts. It might show the first two leaves and then do nothing ... just sit there. Of the very, very, few that do grow larger, the dark color is cute, but the visuals aren't enough to be worth the time and effort.

Even with access to USP colchicine, and several strains, the results sucked.

A sustained, carefully executed, line breeding program would be much easier, and yield better results.

 

[Perpetual]

Great to hear and have your experience here Bass Akwards.

What is USP colchicine?

 

[resin_lung]

USP-United States Pharmacopia. Its a purity standard.

 

[Perpetual]

Ah! Is that grade of material hard to come by?

 

[Bass Akwards]

Makes No Difference

Makes No Difference

Ah! Is that grade of material hard to come by?

Makes no difference if you can get USP alkaloid or not.

The same results can be obtained with crocus bulb extract.

The point is simple: It's not worth the hassle.

There have been many attempts reported, and none ever succeeded.

Even if you do manage to grow a female polyploid, then what?

You'll have a very slow growing, short, dark plant of dubious value.

If, by some miracle, you manage to grow one out, and use a Silver solution on one branch to self it sexually, will those feminized seeds display any significant improvements over the seeds you started with?

Want to bet several years of effort on it?

 

[Perpetual]

I simply want to try it, I haven't seen much about it so I want to see for myself. Trust me I absolutely value your having done it and telling me it is fruitless. But I am still as curious about it. I don't plan on making it my life's work or anything, y'know?

 

[Bass Akwards]

In that case ...

In that case ...

In that case, go for it.

Make several different strengths of solution.

Use Mexican seeded or other rotgut bag-seed to Test the solutions.

Soak the seeds in distilled water for an hour or two, then put them in the alkaloid solution until they sink. Place in a damp pad of three coffee filters, and wait.

When you find the right dilution, try it again with a larger number of seeds.

When you see the lumpy root tip, there's no way you won't recognize it.

When the stars align, significant numbers will show the sign, but the number that actually Grow will still be miniscule.

Have fun.

 

[captain.koons]

Ah grampas med cabinet, wonderful things. Does colchicine do the same thing as coloidial silver or sodiumthyosulfate? Or is the doubling of the chromosomes different than what happens normally to create male flowers?

stressing plants to produce male flowers doesn't double there chromosomes.

colchicine is said to double chromsomes but from what I've learned in my botany lectures it's more unpredictable than that. you may end up with 3 sets instead of 2 in the case of apples which is rather common or 5 instead of 2 in cereal grains etc. in such a case the plants become infertile because there chromosomes can't pair in meiosis.

in a old school book from 1904 or something revised in the 70s the connoisseurs handbook to marijuana they go over application rates of colchicine I believe it was very low like 10mg per gal in foliage spray but I have no idea if that's accurate.

I recall colchicine being carcinogenic too. If you get your hands on some of this stuff be careful.

 

[captain.koons]

talked to my brother who has the book and he says they treated the seeds.

 

[Perpetual]

Bass Akwards Thanks!


captain.koons, thanks for further clearing that bit about stressing for males up for me. That book sounds very interesting. I wonder if it is the same book that was previously mentioned. I found it online for a few bucks so I went ahead and ordered it. I have yet to try and find a source for colchicine. Figured I better try and understand what I am doin' first. Everyone has been great helping me out.

What sorts of precautions are suggested for handling and applying? Gloves, breathing masks, eye protection?

 

[canned abyss1]

Colchicine is also used for making seedless watermelons.

"This article is excerpted from "Seedless Watermelon Production" by Jerry Parsons, Larry Stein, Tom Longbrake, Sam Cotner, and Jerral Johnson, published by the Texas Agricultural Extension Service.

The seedless watermelon is now a reality. Seedless watermelons--sweet inside but without the numerous seeds found in conventional watermelons--are the ultimate in convenience foods.

Seed Production. The obvious question asked about growing seedless watermelons is: "How does one obtain seed of a seedless watermelon?" Obviously, you cannot save seed from a seedless watermelon. So, where do the seeds come from? Simply stated, the number of chromosomes (the threadlike bodies within cells that contain the inheritance units called genes) in a normal watermelon plant is doubled by the use of the chemical colchicine. Doubling a normal (diploid) watermelon results in a tetraploid plant (one having four sets of chromosomes). When the tetraploid plant is bred back, or pollinated, by a diploid or normal plant, the resulting seed produces a triploid plant that is basically a "mule" of the plant kingdom, and it produces seedless watermelons. Seed of seedless varieties are available from most major seed companies."

 

[homebrew420]

what about spraying the seeded flowers. So during the developement of the seeds they might mature to already be poly, or at least mutant. The variegation is not necessarily a sign of a poly. Just a neat mutant. it would really have to be done one hundreds of seeds all sprouted out to find anything at all of value. It is a highly absorbent compound so all take great care when using. I too have always thought it would be so cool to have variegated herb. Good luck.

 

[Perpetual]

Hey glad to see this still getting some attention! Thanks canned abyss1 for expanding my understanding. I didn't know that a tetraploid bred back to a diploid would create a triploid.

Not sure about the spraying of buds homebrew420, I'll go ahead and try it a bit if I get a chance, though!

So I had ordered the book mentioned previously. What a great book! I am very happy I bought it. I had the chance to scan the pages with information relating to colchicine, and here they are.

Taken from The Connoisseur's Handbook of Marijuana, by William Daniel Drake Jr.