Proper Selection criteria of breeding Males ?

[Owl Mirror]

Hello everyone, I would like to start a conversation on the best practices used by people in selection of prospective Male plants for breeding.

I understand this question is wide open and will generate much diverse opinions on the topic. I believe that only adds to the wealth of information that can be offered by the community.

Now, I realize there are two levels this activity consists of. The individual small room grower/breeder and those who have more resources and space.
I would like to hear from everyone on how you decide which male plants make it in to your breeding program and why others are discarded.

I assume that the plants overall structure is important.
Beyond it looking like a real stud, what other criteria do you use to determine if it stays or gets trashed ?

 

[masterKahn]

I have just embarked on a ambitious hobby breeding project and have selected my first male. This male was one of my most vigorous plants. First to show sex, very thick hollow stem, just overall looks like a beefy healthy plant. I'm hoping because it was on of the first to show sex it will confer faster flowering then the slower boys. You can rub the stems of the plants to detect different smells. A big factor will be what your goal in breeding will be?

My goal for now is to make a highly variable gene pool by intermingling many diverse genetic lines in an attempt to make something unique and worth while. I am not as knowledgeable as some on breeding I'm just messing around and learning in the process.

This is my male plant!

 

[medmaker420]

MasterKahn

any negative results from clear containers?

 

[Owl Mirror]

I have just embarked on a ambitious hobby breeding project and have selected my first male. This male was one of my most vigorous plants. First to show sex, very thick hollow stem, just overall looks like a beefy healthy plant. I'm hoping because it was on of the first to show sex it will confer faster flowering then the slower boys. You can rub the stems of the plants to detect different smells. A big factor will be what your goal in breeding will be?

My goal for now is to make a highly variable gene pool by intermingling many diverse genetic lines in an attempt to make something unique and worth while. I am not as knowledgeable as some on breeding I'm just messing around and learning in the process.

This is my male plant!

Hey we use the same potting method ;>}
Did that plant show it's sex all on it's own or did you need to force it by changing the light schedule?

 

[Owl Mirror]

MasterKahn

any negative results from clear containers?

I use the same method, although I leave the plastic label in place so the clear plastic is only near the bottom. I have had great success using pop bottles as I think it gives the best available space for the roots in a confined space.

 

[Gilles&Cheryl]

First off, I am not a breeder but I do make seeds for my own use. I don't use just one male. What if you have a great looking male that doesnt produce good offspring?

We breed cattle and we have had a shitty herd sire a few different times - great looking bulls, they just didn't pass on their traits. We have a good bull now. Our cows are brown, cream colored, red, a few black ones...but our bull is white and so are 90+% his offspring. And that is what we want, white calves bring a few dollars more at the auction we use.

I mix pollen from a handful of the best looking males and use that. I don't use the first to flower or the last to flower.

If I had the facilities to do so, I would keep several male clones and choose the best based on how their offspring preformed. But I don't have that kinda space so I use several males to keep as much diversity as I can. I cant honestly say I have improved my seed stock but I haven't ruined it either.

 

[alphaguru]

just selected through aproximatly 70 f1 blueberry x skunk males.

the traits we used for selection were

# of branches
smell
and overall stature.

i suppose it depends on what your looking for. we wanted to get smaller more compact plants so we searched with a blueberry pheno with lots of branches.

 

[masterKahn]

I have no problems with clear bottles the roots are all over the outside and are fun to look at. By the time the CFL light gets to the roots it has to pass through a thick canopy of fan leaves and then another foot or so to the bottle. Then the roots only get the light bouncing around under the canopy so there is VERY little light even making it to the roots.

The Male I showed will not be my only male by any means just the only one for now. I have a single still unsexed Mazar-I-Sharif that if female will be pollinated by this male and if it is a male i will store it's pollen also.

The male and all other plants I have right now are grown 12/12 from seed and just showed sex at the height pictured. In a perfect world keeping clones of all parents and testing subsequent offspring is the best thing to do. The male I have is from an outdoor medical grower's private seed stash he makes himself. The uniqueness of the seed source is what inspired me to breed with it. The fact is NO ONE on icmag has this plant, it could be hemp for all I know! From what i've seen it should be some good genetic material to work with. I plan on crossing it with the Mazar and making more inbreed seeds with the unknown line to search for different traits to further work on. I'm going to turn my 20 mystery seeds into hundreds. I have friends in low places who will also be helping me grow these out for research.

When it comes to breeding any plant the more you grow the better your end product. To get that one in a thousand pheno or one in a million you might have to grow a million plants. This is where breeders come in with LARGE facilities. The hobby breeder is limited to the best they can do.

Mixing pollen is fine if you don't care to know the father of your seeds. I however want to say this is a PNW x mazar or PNW#2 x PNW(a). You can store pollen for a long time, test the offspring seeds and know exactly what father and mother the plant had.

If however you are working with a running gene pool of a single self made strain you can mix pollen and not worry. Say you grow out some AK-47 and breed your own F2's from mixed pollen of the best males. You grow your AK-47 F2's and use the mixed pollen of the best males from the F2 line and make F3's. You keep reinforcing your existing gene pool of AK.

That's all the blabbering I have for now, already to much because I'm just a beginner breeder there are alot of people with more knowledge. Reading up on botany and plant genetics outside the world of cannabis will help alot also.

 

[Owl Mirror]

I mix pollen from a handful of the best looking males and use that.

OK so, you grow out your males and collect the pollen for future use.
Is this mixing done with the same strain our do you mix different strain males pollen and see what develops ?

 

[Owl Mirror]

just selected through aproximatly 70 f1 blueberry x skunk males.

the traits we used for selection were

# of branches
smell
and overall stature.

i suppose it depends on what your looking for. we wanted to get smaller more compact plants so we searched with a blueberry pheno with lots of branches.

How old were the plants you selected through?
Did they show sex yet, before you dispatched those you didn't want?
I'm working with a limited number of seeds to begin my program.
Hopefully once I get a seed crop I'll be able to do as you've done and select out of many, the few that strike my fancy.

 

[Owl Mirror]

The male and all other plants I have right now are grown 12/12 from seed and just showed sex at the height pictured.

What type of time frame are we talking about?
Do you notice any difference in the growth pattern by growing under 12/12 from the start?
Do you do this simply as a time saver or is it so the plants remain short ?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

This male was one of my most vigorous plants. First to show sex,

I remember reading that the males that show sex first are generally of higher 'hemp' genetics and won't produce the more potent plants you would with a slower flowering one.

Remember that when a great strain is left on its own outdoor, it generally gets hemp/ditchweed characteristics as the seasons pass. As it's been explained to me, this is because the lower potency males flower first and pollinate more of the plants. More lower potency seeds are produced each year.

Just throwing out what I've read. Hope it helps.

 

[Owl Mirror]

I remember reading that the males that show sex first are generally of higher 'hemp' genetics and won't produce the more potent plants you would with a slower flowering one.

Remember that when a great strain is left on its own outdoor, it generally gets hemp/ditchweed characteristics as the seasons pass. As it's been explained to me, this is because the lower potency males flower first and pollinate more of the plants. More lower potency seeds are produced each year.

Just throwing out what I've read. Hope it helps.

That is definitely something to consider, thanks !

 

[NOYB]

the traits we used for selection were

# of branches
smell
and overall stature.

Do you also/ever consider things like root structure, channeled stems, ability to handle high/low pH? How about very early/late flowering males?

 

[Gilles&Cheryl]

OK so, you grow out your males and collect the pollen for future use.
Is this mixing done with the same strain our do you mix different strain males pollen and see what develops ?

With males of the same line. I have never tried mixing the pollen of different strains but people do it. It seems like I've seen seeds floating around sbay that were made that way

I don't really try to improve my seed stock, I just try to preserve it the best I can in my small space. I traded for some f2's once upon a time and have took them to f5. The f4's were some of the most vigorous and potent that I have grown/smoked. So far so good.


I have not had a chance to play with the f5's much. So no comments can be made about them other than they still grow fast.

 

[alphaguru]

Do you also/ever consider things like root structure, channeled stems, ability to handle high/low pH? How about very early/late flowering males?

for sure

this was the initial selection. brought it down to the 10 best, took cuts of those 10, and am in the process of growing these out in organic soil at the current time. more selection is to be done of course.

we then plan on running these cuts in a hydro system to see which out preforms as well as to get a better look at the roots etc.

 

[Owl Mirror]

With males of the same line. I have never tried mixing the pollen of different strains but people do it. It seems like I've seen seeds floating around sbay that were made that way

I don't really try to improve my seed stock, I just try to preserve it the best I can in my small space. I was gifted some f2's once upon a time and have took them to f5. The f4's were some of the some of the most vigorous and potent that I have grown/smoked. So far so good.


I have not had a chance to play with the f5's much. So no comments can be made about them other than they still grow fast.

Thanks, sounds like a good plan.
While I am hopeful to keep myself in seeds, I would also like to contribute to their betterment if I'm able.
These type of conversations really get one thinking, especially when so many different opinions exist on the same subject.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

My first criteria for a male is one that lives.

Then - it would depend on what traits your working with and the ones your looking for.

If your female is a unruly stretchy Jack Herrer - a male that grows short and stocky might look pretty good.

If your kinda like me - looking for that Coinsurers' head stash - then I look for about any damn male that's healthy and vigorous and whack him with my choicest girlz.

Nice thing about boys - they don't need to be kept very long and you can keep then vegging (sometimes) --
I'm having some males go full blown flower in 16/8 I've changed lights to 20/4 and on 24.

In a couple months - I can set then outside and collect pollen in less than 2 weeks - and not disturb the flower room - much. It'l get a few thru if nature has her way.

If you dry the colectedpollen REALLY well - (desiccant, dry) pollen keeps for between 30 days and 6 months.


What I cant figure out - how does one know what traits are dominate and which are recessive - when viewing a given male or female. (P1?) --- IF I understand correctly - the best way seems to breed the make with multiple known females - and see which traits show in the offspring. Now if ya have access to some fancy DNA testing goodies (besides good lungs and a pliable mind) - we could prolly speed thing along nicely.

Wasn't until recently I ever looked at a male for more than a couple minutes.

About that root structure - I just culled 9 males in R/W cubes and had a chance ti ompare traits although briefly and I noticed a huge variation in root structure - and what I found interesting- the mondo roots didn't have a corasponding mondo top - I plan on researching a lil more.

I didn't have visual acces to the roots till I grew in rockwool

 

[Owl Mirror]

It's a BOY !

I opened up my flower room this morning to find my first Nepali is a true Male.
I am hopeful that I'll be able to harvest the pollen and apply it against my females in the future.
Obviously I haven't had many males to select from but, this plant does have a very healthy root system, nice branching and showed sex in one week under a 10/14 light cycle.

 

[RockyMountainHi]

will you be posting wedding announcments? lol