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How many beans does it take ?

Kodiak

Mad Scientist
Veteran
Like most people said you can find the plant that you need in any seed but I generally start at least twice as many seeds as I need plants. A small percentage will not germinate at all or die, 50% will theoretically be males and only 25-50% of the females will be keepers.

Going by that formula; if you start say 12 seeds, 2 will not germinate or perish, 5 will be males and 5 will be females. Only 2 or 3 of the females will carry good traits and one of them will be superior to the rest, that's your keeper. The more plants that you start out with, the better the chance of finding good ones. If you need 12 plants to work with you could start say 25 or 30 seeds. Remember that you will also need clones of these plants unless you intend to flower them straight from seed and clones tend to use up a lot of space.

Selecting plants at the seedling stage does not really make any sense as you will have no idea of what the plants will look like in flowering. You need to flower the plants first so that you will get some idea of the scent, potency, resin production etc.. etc..

Sometimes it's the wierd mutant or the plant that was a slow starter that is the keeper. You never know until you have flowered them.

Same goes for the males. You need to look for strong individuals and basically smoke all the males before picking the father. How else will you know what you are breeding? In a way it makes no difference what strain the father is as it is mostly there to strengthen the characteristics of the female. I tend to pick males that resemble females as much as possible in terms of scent and potency and usually pass on the big "macho" males that invest a lot of energy into vegetative growth. Go for the stickiest individuals that you can find. Males mainly contribute to the scent and bud structure of the females offspring, so what you should look for is dense clusters of male flowers and a nice scent. Males also contribute to the physical appearance and potency of the offspring to a lesser degree.

You also need to take other things into consideration; like resistance to stress, node frequency, stretch and more..

For my last grow I started out with 6 males, all different strains but landed on a very sticky and strongly scented Lemon Skunk #1 male that I will use to make hybrids until I find something better.

You really need to have a strict screening process, which also includes stress-testing the parents and weeding out hermafrodites. If none of the individuals that you get are any good, then there really is no point in breeding them. Better to start more seeds and begin the selection process all over again. Make a list of the traits that you are looking for and select the parents based on that list.

The priority of the list can be totally different depending on the purpose of the plant. When you are breeding outdoor plants you might look for different traits than if you are breeding indoor strains.

By chosing strong genetics from proven masters of breeding, you increase your chance of finding good individuals. Certainly there are good plants to be found in any pack but since only the best plants will do for breeding purposes, you might as well start out with something good, even if the seeds cost a bit more.

The initial P1 parents set the standard for the entire seed line so you need to make sure that they are exceptional.

Unless you have a green house at your disposal, you have to settle for smaller initial populations and hope for something good.
 

resin_lung

I cough up honey oil
Veteran
Hey Owl- To better a strain through breeding is no small undertaking. The space and time required to grow the large numbers that would allow you to make the best selections, test what you "Think" are the best, cross those "Thought" to be worthy, Grow the cross out and test to make sure your going in the right direction is not the easiest thing to do. But you don't need to do any of that to have fun and experiment. If I were you I would grow my meds, and if along the way, you find a male that you like for any reason whatsoever, take him out of the room and put near a window or in a bathroom, collect some pollen and dust the nicest girl you have going at time, just a few of the buds on the lower branches. Its neat as hell and will add to the overall experience. just my:2cents:
:ying:
 

Owl Mirror

Active member
Veteran
can I ask you owl, do you speed in your car? are you allowed to speed? hehe

nike that shit! (just do it)

LOL, thanks Jasmine !
Actually, I'm the old fart everyone passes ;>}
I live in the north woods and still do 35 through the forest roads !
But, I get the drift ;>}

the ugly duckling bud

Yeah, I have a hard time killing anything.
That is why this plant limit is so hard to comply with.
The law should in fact be 12 flowering plants, not 12 plants with any size root system.
 

Owl Mirror

Active member
Veteran
I must say, this whole notion of growing some plants and breeding them is very similar to having a dream about driving around the whole country for a summer. I can envision all the wonderful sites I would find but, then the reality of buying the vehicle, paying for the fuel, etc. etc. comes in to play
I guess I'm just a dreamer and I'll need to leave the road trip to others who can afford the trip ;>}
 

Owl Mirror

Active member
Veteran
you can always buy the other travelers pictures (beans), but then you only see those travels through their eyes.....not always bad....

make your seeds owl, you never know the availability of beans and will be happy you have them. knowing you, other will be happy also as you seem like the sharing type. preserving the seed, in any way shape or form is a benefit. even bottle-necking, it is better than nothing!!! And if that is your breeding goal, it is indeed the end result!

Great things, glad you started posting again owl. My brain is stirring

Thanks, yes I guess day trips aren't such a bad thing ;>}
I'll do my very best to create some seed stock and for certain will spread them around.
At least after having these conversations, I know better to begin calling myself a Breeder.
I'll be satisfied with the moniker Seed-Maker ;>}
 

Black Ra1n

Cannaculturist ~OGA~
Veteran
:yeahthats, make you wonder why many strains the lineage is a "mystery or secret"....

.....make you wonder if there were any more in the line that exhibited the trait chosen for, even better and more outstanding!

You said it!
There's always a better pheno, it's just the way it is.... we're never satisfied lol that's why there's so many variations and versions.

Owl.... find yourself a good female, something stable to base off. I find the hardest part is finding a good male, trial and error on this... could take 10-50 or more times before you get a half decent gene pool to work with. This is all depending on what you want... like someone said, two good plants don't make a perfect one, sometimes the opposite happens and you end up with a big pile of crap... then it's back to the drawing board. Breeding is tough, not always but it's far harder than most people think... if it was easy everyone would be doing it.
Good luck with your project.
 

Owl Mirror

Active member
Veteran
You said it!
There's always a better pheno, it's just the way it is.... we're never satisfied lol that's why there's so many variations and versions.

Owl.... find yourself a good female, something stable to base off. I find the hardest part is finding a good male, trial and error on this... could take 10-50 or more times before you get a half decent gene pool to work with. This is all depending on what you want... like someone said, two good plants don't make a perfect one, sometimes the opposite happens and you end up with a big pile of crap... then it's back to the drawing board. Breeding is tough, not always but it's far harder than most people think... if it was easy everyone would be doing it.
Good luck with your project.

find yourself a good female, something stable
Been trying that for 40+ years ;>}

Oh you mean plants, ... ok ;>}
 

3dDream

Matter that Appreciates Matter
Veteran
Selecting plants at the seedling stage does not really make any sense as you will have no idea of what the plants will look like in flowering. You need to flower the plants first so that you will get some idea of the scent, potency, resin production etc.. etc..

Kodiak if you are familiar with the parents you can select by seedling. Sure the traits will mix up and you don't know until you grow them out, but you can pick the body. I just did it with panama and f13. I have no space and this was my solution. Peace.
 

Owl Mirror

Active member
Veteran
Kodiak if you are familiar with the parents you can select by seedling. Sure the traits will mix up and you don't know until you grow them out, but you can pick the body. I just did it with panama and f13. I have no space and this was my solution. Peace.

Are you talking of growing a flat of seedlings and selecting a few from say 50 seedlings? I guess it's getting started with only a handful of beans and hoping the seeds will yield something useful. I can see doing this after a bountiful seed crop. Hopefully a year from now I'll have enough seeds to put that in to practice and have a grow journal to show for it.
 

3dDream

Matter that Appreciates Matter
Veteran
Owl Mirror - Yes. I just did two batches of 35 seeds. First I wanted to see if there would be a trend. I didn't know what I wanted to grow out, but I liked the idea of focusing on a early trait. This way if I like what I find I can come back very quickly by growing more seeds or I can avoid a certain phenos by the seedling. In my grow I had many panama looking seedlings, a few f13 looking seedlings, and 6+ mutants. I mainly focused on the f13 looking and mutant plants. I did keep a panama dom plant or two. The results so far? I found a mutant female. She was 1/70 chance. The panama dom plants are sporting bb buds; The f13 dom all ended up shitty, very low yield and lanky. So the next run I will try more panama dom seedlings and avoid the bad phenos. This was just fun test. Like I said before, I don't have shit for space, how else is a guy to find the best of the best. I have a thread in teh ace forum.

 

RockyMountainHi

I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with th
Veteran
This question is kinda almost directly related to the question, "How many tickets do ya gotta buy to win the lottery?".

On a good day - it's a numbers game. If the numbers are not in your favor then it can be a luck game - and when luck is involved - sometimes all it takes is two to tango.
Lotto tix can pay off with just one! - unless you have luck like mine! LOL


I tend to think more numbers gives a wider choice of the desired traits initally.

According to theroy - if ya wanted a St Bernard and all ya had was a Chiuawwa and a Irish setter - it could be done - Probably not this lifetime, but you get the idea


The girls are easy to choose - I think the boys are a challange - and smokin em usually gives me a headach
 

Owl Mirror

Active member
Veteran
This question is kinda almost directly related to the question, "How many tickets do ya gotta buy to win the lottery?".

On a good day - it's a numbers game. If the numbers are not in your favor then it can be a luck game - and when luck is involved - sometimes all it takes is two to tango.
Lotto tix can pay off with just one! - unless you have luck like mine! LOL


I tend to think more numbers gives a wider choice of the desired traits initally.

According to theroy - if ya wanted a St Bernard and all ya had was a Chiuawwa and a Irish setter - it could be done - Probably not this lifetime, but you get the idea


The girls are easy to choose - I think the boys are a challange - and smokin em usually gives me a headach

Are you saying that in selecting a prospective Male, it should be a producer of THC ? I was under the impression that THC production had more to do with protecting the female flowers. If that is the case, wouldn't a higher THC content in a Male be evidence of a female-leaning male more than a potent all-male male ?

Sheeesh, I think the above, reads like a Donald Rumsfeld explanation but, I hope you get the drift ;>}
 

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