are s1's better than backcosses

[gamehaze]

i was just wondering if i was lookin to aquire a strain that exists only in clone only form would it be better to get a selfed version because it would be closer to the clone or would it be better to get the strain if it was outcrossed the backcrossed

i have noticed different breeders use both the techniques personally it sounds to me like the s1 would be a closer representation

thanks in advance

 

[mojojojo]

good question i guess that depends on your needs,
if you simply are looking for a nice clone id say go for sts made s-1s.
the off spring of s-1s are all similar but you still need to take cuts and compare
because some are not quite as good as others.
ive grown hundreds of s-1s made from sts.
and dont understand all the negative results others have got so look into some other threads and form your own opinion the test it out.

 

[mojojojo]

i think the negative attitude twords s-1s are due to the fact that its a step in breeding that works well and others that have invested lots of time and emotions in others methods are quick to dismiss it without having tried it. on the flipside i see more variance in back crosses ,even my own bubba kush x diesel x bubba kush.
stress s-1s are a whole nother animal i have no experiance with.

 

[Yeti]

They are different things. You may be able to find more similar genetics from s1's, however this entails all females/herms. Generally S1 seeds are forced using chems to produce male flowers on females allowing self-pollination. This scares me as I prefer to look for which traits I like in a pheno rather than which ones herm. S1's will most often resemble the parent more than a BX. (Better for parents with recessive trait I believe)

Bx's still have both male and female parents. The successive generations are crossed back again to the parent over and over in an attempt to stabilize particular traits.

This is my understanding. I am no guru on the matter. Good luck. Both have pros and cons. You might want to try each to see what suits you.

Yeti

 

[Zoolander]

I'd go with the BX

 

[cork144]

backcrossing and inbreeding would ensure you have seeds with the chosen clones traits (according you did excellent selection)

and s1s will basicly give you seeds of what that clones sisters looked like.

 

[Ronni]

If your not having a male which you know is recessive in crosses, i'd go for the sts.

the thing about the femmed seeds is imho not the method, just the habit of the seedcompanies replacing their regular seedslines through femmed making the consumer more dependent on them.

 

[LAMBS-BREAD]

I'd go with the BX

Hey Zoo

Can u explain how to get a BX from a "clone only" strain?

 

[cork144]

Hey Zoo

Can u explain how to get a BX from a "clone only" strain?

sorry im not zoolander im sure he knows more about it than i do,

But you have to outcross to a different strain father, select in the first gen of seeds for the desired traits, cross the males and females of desired traits, Grow out the progency from those, do the same, youll be on a 3rd gen, use some select males onto clones of the original mother, lable which male knocked up which, grow out the progency untill you find a consistant seedbatch, then youll have a mother and father which produce the bx seeds.

(this is one way to do it)

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

If your goal is to produce a seedbatch of plants similar to the clone, I think selfing will work better. If you're looking to recombine traits and improve on the clone, the backcross will probably work better. By using a male that is brother to the select clone to make the first cross, you have a higher chance of finding the traits you want in the next (backcross) generation. Of course, with a clone this is rarely possible. Outcross is the only choice.

 

[kopite]

If your goal is to produce a seedbatch of plants similar to the clone, I think selfing will work better. If you're looking to recombine traits and improve on the clone, the backcross will probably work better. By using a male that is brother to the select clone to make the first cross, you have a higher chance of finding the traits you want in the next (backcross) generation. Of course, with a clone this is rarely possible. Outcross is the only choice.

I believe you need to get to S7 or S8 gen before you reach over 90% likeness where as its 99.4% with 6 backcrosses for the Recurrent program.... or to attain 93% its BC3F2.. for me if your goal is as above I would go with the recurrent BC.. its all horses for courses and depends on what your goals are.....

kopite

 

[gamehaze]

thanks guys

im really just trying to find a killer mum that i can keep for just cloning. i guess il have to try both for now to learn myself.
interesting answers though

 

[Blue]

Just a note S1 seed does not create clone like plents from seed saying this is wrong information...

Sweet seeds sell SAD which is an S1 drop 10 seeds and tell me the plants are all the same as guess what they aint!!!!!

 

[mojojojo]

I think post #10 is the best answer.