Sugary Supplements

[*mistress*]

Actually the hydro guy said it had to be a special molasses and not just any old off the shelf stuff!

what could be more special than organic blackstrap molasses?

seems facially suspect sales rep. spiel. will promptly show gardener to isle 1 of their shop when asked where/what 'special molasses' is...

all due respect to member glasspacked bowl... 'hydro guy' should refer to scientific/any data to support such a claim. gardeners have used molasses for long, long time...

not all molasses' the same...
single comparison between 2 very readily available brands, @ serving size of 1 tablespoon:

brer rabbit molasses, full flavor:
potassium 290 mg 8%
calcium 10%
magnesium 20%
iron 15%
sodium 25 mg 1%
total carbohydrates 15 g 5%
sugars 11 g

wholesome sweeteners organic molasses: [organic and fair trade cert.]
potassium 730 mg 20%
calcium 115 mg 10%
magnesium 8%
iron 15%
vitamin b6 10%
sodium 0%
total carbohydrates 14 g 4%
sugars 10 g

there is also this:
dry molasses
http://redentas.com/shop/dry-molasses.html

Stimulates microbial activity in the soil and the compost pile. Source of sulfur and potash. Apply at a rate of 10 pounds per 1000 square feet. Notes from the staff: Microbes love sugar!

where can you get cheap natural fertilizers and soil amendments?:
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/organic/2002085416013761.html

- source of fast consuming sugars for feeding and breeding the aerobic bacteria in compost teas. Most microherd populations love the high carbon content in sugar products. Sugars are best dissolved and broken down by microbes in compost tea that has brewed at least 1-3 days, before applying to the soil. If too much sugar is added on soil straight as a topdressing, it may cause a temporary nitrogen deficiency in the soil as the microherd populations grow too fast. Molasses also contains sulfur which acts as a mild natural fungicide also. Molasses is also a great natural deodorizer for fishy teas. NOTE: Recent studies have shown that unsulfured molasses or dry molasses powder is best for faster aerobic microbial growth in tea brewing. For a more fungal tea don't add too much simple sugar or molasses to your aerobic teas. Use more complex sugars, starches and carbohydrates like in seaweed, rotten fruit, soy sauce, or other fungal foods.

seems as though the point of adding sugars is to feed the microbes in media;not necessarily feeding plant... directly. is more symbiotic relationship between media, beneficials, non-beneficials, aerobic, anaerobic, etc. processes. just adding fuel to already burning fire of life/death in media. plant gets indirect benefit/by-products (wastes, really) from activity in media+around roots. applyiung oxygen to this would seem to only foster more activity, along w/ manageable heatincrease to permit increased metabolism to actually grow plant...

adding mycorrhizae to the media - beforehand - would seem to be appropriate... myco tabs are relatively cheap, and work!

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

 

[magiccannabus]

Bingo.


Molasses is some good stuff. I used to add green sand and kelp to my organic soil mix, plus I would add cal mag to my RO water. Molasses adds everything Cal-Mag has (plus many other trace elements), and gives my plants the potassium they need. I feed molasses from start to finish and it has saved me an arm and a leg in Cal-mag and many potassium amendments/supplements. A combo of amended soil with lime, Bloodmeal, Bonemeal and spiced up with guano/molasses tea for the win. I grow the best bud I ever have for a fraction of what I used to. I used to be suckered by all the hype marketing.... not anymore

Amen! Organic gardening is so cheap and the results are really great if you do it right. My new soil mix is amazing and it's way cheaper than even a bale of Pro-Mix. I have coir, composts, peat, and amendments. Great stuff.

 

[glasspackedbowl]

what could be more special than organic blackstrap molasses?

seems facially suspect sales rep. spiel. will promptly show gardener to isle 1 of their shop when asked where/what 'special molasses' is...
!

I wasnt there to Purchase any thing! He advised me to get it at a grocery store but not just get any old kind off the shelf. He had a term for it but I cant remember. There was much to think and ask and check. AS I was there for 40m or so and Didnt buy anything. So Glad to hear he's just making sales figures from me!

 

[glasspackedbowl]

Is that a difference between giving plants broken down simple sugars and using molasses?

 

[glasspackedbowl]

Molasses can also be added to the soil of almost every plant to promote microbial activity. I know it does this but is that all? Im talking about the sugars that this gives to soil

 

[glasspackedbowl]

check this out....

check this out....

ORGANICS AND SUSTAINABILITY
Finding balance
Bioactive materials for
sustainable soil management
For some time now, the number of products
described as soil conditioners or soil improvers
has been growing.
Makers of things such as kelp extracts, humic
acid, fish emulsion make numerous claims
about improving the soil and reducing fertiliser
bills, but it has been unclear whether or not
there is any real basis to these claims.
Some people have had amazing results with
one thing or another, but for many the results
have been slight or imperceptible and the reason
for this variability has remained elusive.
Recent research by SWEP laboratories, however,
has begun to shed light on this issue by
looking at soil biology from a balance perspective
(according to the principles of the Mikhail
System). Since the release of their Complete Soil
Balance Analysis, they have been able to look
more closely at what happens when various
materials are applied to soil. While still in its
early stages, results from this research are
pointing to real effects that should give more
predicable results.
KELP EXTRACTS
These materials are among the oldest on the market and, like
most others, began by being marketed as fertiliser alternatives.
Although containing a wide range of elements and
possibly beneficial as trace element supplements, it is clear
that they have too little of any nutrient (especially once
diluted for application) to ever be thought of as fertilisers.
Some manufacturers have tried to compensate for this by fortifying
their products with dissolved fertiliser, but this has
seldom been entirely effective.
Another strategy has been to increase the concentration of
the solutions applied. This did produce results, but contrary to
most expectations, it often produces a negative response. In
other words, it stopped plants growing.
Subsequent research by many people confirmed a high concentration
of plant hormones in many kelp products. This
explained the overdose response and led to a change to foliar
application in preference to soil treatment.
SWEP research has shown that these hormones also have
strong effects on soil microbes. In particular, it has been shown
that kelp extracts stimulate activity in fungi, yeast, photosynthetic
bacteria and actinomycetes.
The research also showed a critical concentration that
appears to be related to the concentration of the product. For
most established brands, this appears to be around five litres
(concentrate) per hectare, with the response falling off rapidly
both above and below this level.
The graph clearly shows this change in the microbial profile
of a treated soil at the critical concentration – untreated levels
are shown at the front of the graph.
FISH EMULSIONS
These materials also have a long history, but with a number of
different manufacturing methods. Again, they have been
treated as fertiliser alternatives in spite of the low concentrations
of most nutrients in the diluted solution applied and
fortified products have also been developed to compensate
for this. However, they differ from kelp extracts in being able
to be used at higher concentrations and in usually having reasonable
amounts of nitrogen. The result is that they are more
likely to green things up and look as if something useful is
happening.
This background made results from SWEP research something
of a surprise. The most significant result came from the
specialised Fungi termed cellulose utilisers. A surprise because
this group had been expected to be intolerant of added nitrogen.
Other fungi also showed significant increases in activity.
However, unlike kelp extracts, there appeared to be two
critical concentrations. Fungi and cellulose utilisers responded
at the lowest application rate – two litres per hectare, while at
10 litres per hectare the response was more like that of kelp –
actinomycetes, photosynthetic bacteria and yeast.
AUSTRALIAN ORGANIC JOURNAL – AUTUMN 2005 21
ORGANICS AND SUSTAINABILITY
Interestingly, the activity of
lactic acid bacteria appeared to
be suppressed by fish emulsion,
with this suppression
increasing as the application
rate decreased.
HUMATES
These materials are usually
produced by liquefaction of
brown coal, although solid and
soluble products have also appeared recently. They have never
been regarded as fertilisers, but rather as soil conditioners,
with effects on soil structure, presumed to be due to their high
carbon content. However, many criticisms about the use of
humates have pointed to the small amount of carbon actually
applied, compared with the increases in soil organic carbon
that manufacturers claim. Others dismiss these criticisms, saying
that humates act as catalysts for biological processes which
lead to accumulation of organic matter in the soil, rather than
simply adding carbon to the soil.
Research by SWEP may actually support this latter contention,
as it showed humates produce a similar change in
microbial profile to kelp extracts, but with a strong suppression
of lactic acid bacteria and an additional stimulation of
cellulose utilisers. In a sense, these materials appear to work as
if they were some kind of hybrid between kelp extracts and
fish emulsions, but generally at higher application rates. This
finding also appears to support the general feeling among
both manufacturers and users that combination products
between two or more of these three materials can be more
effective than each alone.
Due to the wide range of product formulations, there is
probably no single effective application rate, but again the
lower application rates appeared to be the more effective.
MOLASSES
The use of sugar and molasses to boost soil microbial activity
has been talked about for some time and the theory has been
that it provides an energy source that can be utilised equally
well by all soil organisms. However, field applications have not
tended to produce many convincing responses.
SWEP research with molasses has shown significant effects
on soil biology, but they are more complex than expected.
Again, the best results appeared to be at the lowest application
rate (two litres per hectare), with lactic acid bacteria
and yeast predictably giving the strongest response, but with
fungi and cellulose utilisers also responding (at the lowest
rate). Interestingly, photosynthetic bacteria showed the opposite
response, with activity increasing as the application rate
increased.
WORM LEACHATE
This material is relatively new to the market, with comparatively
little research to support it. However, when applied to soil it
does produce changes in the microbial profile somewhat reminiscent
of molasses. However, the research suggests that it may
be a better than molasses as a stimulant of fungi and cellulose
utilisers (at low application rates) and better for stimulating
photosynthetic bacteria at high application rates. Interestingly,
it did not appear to influence the lactic acid bacteria at all.
OTHER MATERIALS
There are many other materials that are yet to be tested and
the predominance of results at low rates of application raises
the possibility that even
everyday materials such as
superphosphate and urea
could behave as bio-active
materials if used at suitably
low rates. However, there is a
lot of research left to be done
in order to fully understand
how best to manage soil biology
– at least we have now a
good start.
It is clear, however, that each material has its own effect on
soil biology. Indicating that there are appropriate and inappropriate
uses and application rates.
Unfortunately, there is unlikely to be any simple rule-ofthumb
to apply for the use of any bio-active material. The
only way to know what will be effective for any soil is to base
decisions on the results of a suitable soil test.
Here too, SWEP research has clearly demonstrated that the
results of soil biology testing can only be properly assessed in
the context of both cation and nutrient balance – otherwise
the cell counts are just numbers.
The “take-home” message from all this appears to be that
once you have improved soil fertility to the point where
fertiliser responses are becoming less apparent, you should
focus on optimising the exchangeable cation balance in the
soil.
As a means of accelerating this process and subsequently
maintaining proper soil balance, the use of bio-active materials
could be very helpful, but only if you are able to determine
the right ones and use them at the best application rates.
45-47/174 BRIDGE ROAD, KEYSBOROUGH, VIC 3173 AUSTRALIA
PO Box 583, Noble Park, VIC 3174
Web: www.swep.com.au email: [email protected]
Serving agriculture since 1980
ANALYTICAL
LABORATORIES
FREE Downloads,
Factsheets & Support
www.swep.com.au
Each material has its own effect on soil biology.
There are appropriate and inappropriate uses and
application rates … there is unlikely to be any
simple rule-of-thumb

 

[Silver Oak]

I don't have a photo handy, but I've been using "Uncle John's Blend" from Cutting Edge Solutions for a while now. I have no idea if it helps or hurts yet. Just thought I'd pass along another sugary supplement.

[SIZE=+1]
Uncle John’s Blend™[/SIZE] is a proprietary elixir developed originally in the hills of Humboldt County. Uncle John’s Blend™ is formualted in small batches to ensure quality and freshness. Uncle John’s Blend™ is developed to reduce stress and increase flower and fruit production. When using a high phosphorus bloom formula, a plant’s metabolism is boosted during flowering. Uncle John’s Blend™ helps to alleviate deficiencies that van occur from stress as a result of increased metabolic function. Uncle John’s Blend™ supplies potassium to plants delivered through a matrix of sugars (carbohydrates). The potassium acts as the primary electrolyte for energy, while the carbohydrates are precursers for complex aromatic asters and flavinoids. Enhanced production of flavinoids and aromatic compounds (esters) equate to more intense perfume in aromatic flowers, and richer flavors in fruits.

 

[smoke1sun]

I put 60ml of blackstrap in my 12 gallon ebb&flo-nft drip(lol) type res, and after 3 days in, no smell, and just a little foam. my system is 2 tiers with the water flowing around a gutter systems back to the res, so when its on theres quite of bit of action in the res.

 

[glasspackedbowl]

Molasses and Sugar products are mainly for the microbiology of your medium. Although they also contain roughly 1-0-5 NPK and a bunch of trace minerals. Sugars are produced after nutrient uptake has occured as well as through photosynthesis. Theres really no need to supplement molasses unless your using organic nutrients and/or soil. The molasses will greatly enhance the activity of your microbiology but if your using chem nutes there is no need for it.

I would agree, except that there are many people that use some sort of organic nutes along with chemicals and would see it to be beneficial. I guess if you use 100% chemicals and 3 month soil you wouldnt need it. no offense intended!

 

[glasspackedbowl]

I ended up using organic molasses and Final Flush! I think it was $15 for the one bottle of FF and 20$ for the 5gallon bucket of molasses from the nursery.

 

[Chief]

how do these sugar products work in sysytems with no mycorrhiza?

 

[glasspackedbowl]

?? it works if theres soil. Theres always life you just cant see it!

 

[Chief]

I thought some of those were hydro products

 

[glasspackedbowl]

yep good ?

 

[glasspackedbowl]

I now know that these types of products, used in enough quantity, will add a sweet taste to your bud. We had a sourdiesel that came out fruity(and a little dead animaly) and tasted sweet more so then the others. I ended up using

Special edition Final Flush and organic molasses. My pops went crazy with the molasses at the end on some plants to flush them and they were sweet. I as actually licking the stock of the plant just above ground level that was sweet. Mind you I licked it on the inside of the woody stem. I have a piece of a stem that I kept because of the hammer shaper that I will photograph and upload soon. I will have to reread this thread and make a final conclusion!