How to tell when your plant is eating

[lysol]

I have the bluelabs truncheon meter. It shows increments of .1 ec

I have been having problems with over & under feeding. Isn't ec supposed to drop as the plant needs more nutrients? In it's young stages, is it possible the plant has enough nutes with .6, doubles in size and ec is still at .6 and it is under fed? Shouldn't the plant use up the nutes that are there, or is the threshold too small for this type of meter to measure?

 

[Standaman]

My tap water comes in at .4 are you using tap or filtered water?

 

[czarr]

if the plants are consuming water and nutes at an equal rate then i'd say you have it just right.

 

[lysol]

My tap water starts at .3 ec

Here I had to back off ec: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=129810

I waited and my plant grew and grew, but ec never dropped. Then something messed up again ( http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=131119 ), so I screwed something up. I was advised I was feeding low yet my ec never dropped

 

[FreezerBoy]

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=129810 You treated a nute deficiency by removing nutes? That makes things MORE deficient. Then you coated it with laundry detergent?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=131119 lots of talk about EC but very little about pH and all of that wrong. 5.2? EEK! Raised to 5.6? 5.6-6.0 is our range for DWC.

I think you've got plenty of food. I'm leaning towards pH lockout.

What are you growing in. I've never seen those types of rocks before. Are you sure they're hydro safe?

 

[Kindman69]

You are getting good info lysol, I just wanted to add that with plants this young you are not going to notice much of a ec drop, even when they are eating fine. Your res size is also important when talking about ec drop, it is a ll relative.

Hang in there mate :smile:

Kind

 

[lysol]

Ok, some people ( and nute charts ) say to run ph really low, but I guess different types of hydro operate differently...

Regarding the former infirmary thread, Dr G told me to raise ec but after I posted pics he wrote back and wrote to actually lower to 500, I did and left it there, as you can see in the second infirmary thread it grew in the few days in between really well, that was at 500 ppm... I kept waiting and since it never dropped on it's own I topped off w/ plain water ( lowering it ), when that burnt leaf thing turned up I posted that 2nd thread and then just a little while ago I raised it to 1.4ec, I think it actually dropped on it's own for the first time ( accompanied by a PH rise ) since I added more light ( before I removed the light because I thought the burnt leaf might have been from heat ). SO I just fed it again

I mean how big of a drop should I look for to know it's "eating"? Is it possible some other brand of nutrient meter would be able to give me feedback on the more granular level a newb needs?

In other words I was lowering it because I thought the way you were supposed to grow is set it and watch it, if it drops you have your lower bounds, raise it and if it raises you have your upper bounds, I was trying to figure out the range basically, I figured "hmm put less nutrient, and then if it eats smaller amounts will show up on my meter sooner", and was thinking "hmm as long as there are nutrients there and I replenish them when it drops will the plant thrive", in other words:

can you safely run a low ec, and just keep adding nutes more often, or is there some low "threshold" where a plant becomes unhappy, is nutrient concentration like ph in that you go outside that "window" and youre locked out?

 

[FreezerBoy]

I mean how big of a drop should I look for to know it's "eating"?

None. Whether EC drops, rises or stays the same, you're eating. The question is, are you feeding correctly? If EC remains constant the answer is yes. Nutes and water are being used at the same rate so the only reading that moves is the water level. So now the question is, are you feeding in a manner the plant can use? Here the answer seems to be no. pH was clearly out of range. I can't imagine what laundry soap was supposed to do but, stop it.

can you safely run a low ec, and just keep adding nutes more often, or is there some low "threshold" where a plant becomes unhappy, is nutrient concentration like ph in that you go outside that "window" and youre locked out?

You'd only add nutes if EC was dropping. I traditionally run a solution at 1/3 to 1/2 of what most here run. My current 8 Mile was about 8 weeks old before I did a water change and only because I saw signs of stress. While EC was constant, that only measures total strength and gives no indication of individual NPK ratios. It's not so much about adding nutes as maintaining proportions.

 

[lysol]

Ok, FYI the medium is hydroton with some higromite on top cuz i ran out. And I didnt add soap to the rez, I thought you were supposed to use detergent not dish soap for foliar feeding, it didnt hurt it anyways and obviously I wont do it again

So to make sure I understand what you are telling me, if EC is stable NO NEED TO FEED, so in this case there is no need to necessarily increase ec, just keep my PH higher. In other words maintaining a higher ec only helps the grower right ( less frequent feedings ). Theoretically if your PH was in range you could add small doses of nutrient ( maintain a constant level via frequent week feedings, rather then stronger infrequent feedings ) throughout the day to guarantee against overfeeding, would this be correct? As long as the meter registers some conductivity and my PH is in the right window, ( and assuming NPK ratios were constant ) I would be good? I could use up all of one element and not register it on the meter.

But lets say hypothetically I was doing a drain to waste, you could just run a really low ec since its getting a constant ratio? In theory.?


Also when I see nutrient charts that show maximum potassium uptake below 5.4 ph, that is for other types of hydro like ebb & flow? Is there a nutrient chart you would consider accurate for DWC, or do you think it just varies by strain?

 

[FreezerBoy]

A higher EC only benefits the shop and the manufacturer. The more you use the more you buy.

So to make sure I understand what you are telling me, if EC is stable NO NEED TO FEED, so in this case there is no need to necessarily increase ec, just keep my PH higher.

You still need to feed you just don't need to feed more until EC drops or signs of stress occur. As long as EC and pH are relatively stable a mild swing is better for you than being dialed in to the point of being locked down. No single pH reading provides all nutes.

I could use up all of one element and not register it on the meter.

Yes! That's when you'll see signs of distress even though your numbers are all good. Many people drain to waste or flush their res to avoid this.



According to the chart above, pH 5.2 severely restricts Nitrogen, while locking out Phosphorus and Magnesium altogether.

 

[Wait...What?]

<snip> I could use up all of one element and not register it on the meter.<snip>

this is the folly of tds/ec meters. collect the data and use it for troubleshooting, not for guiding your grow. the object is not to feed the plant till it burps. less is more.

 

[*mistress*]

I have the bluelabs truncheon meter. It shows increments of .1 ec

I have been having problems with over & under feeding. Isn't ec supposed to drop as the plant needs more nutrients? In it's young stages, is it possible the plant has enough nutes with .6, doubles in size and ec is still at .6 and it is under fed? Shouldn't the plant use up the nutes that are there, or is the threshold too small for this type of meter to measure?

gh flora nova bloom @ 1/2-1 cap full per gallon; or just bottle instructions.

no need to use ec/ppm/tds meter, or ph meter, for that matter.

buffers itself extremely well. end.

when become so involved in mechanics+machines of garden, rather than plants, cannot enjoy garden.

may consider trying a run or two w/ soilless mix, coco, or hempy bucket - to get hang of gardening w/out reliance on pumps, meters, etc. for life of plant. then go back to whatever method giving issues now.

as member FreezerBoy stated, seems like ph issue, rather than nute issue. get ph in order...

You still need to feed you just don't need to feed more until EC drops or signs of stress occur. As long as EC and pH are relatively stable a mild swing is better for you than being dialed in to the point of being locked down. No single pH reading provides all nutes.

enjoy your garden!

 

[lysol]

Well due to some bunk advice & charts I was PHing down whenever it got to 5.8 or higher, no wonder they have been less than lively. Im going to keep at it for another few weeks now that I have solid advice for the PH. When you're a newb and the nutes say 5.8 - 6.3, then green house seed co's videos say they grow at 5.5 & 5.7, then I read people here writing 5-6 and theres 2x as many inaccurate charts that show max nutes @ < 5.4

One question about this proper nute chart tho, it says by running proper PH I'll lockout Mt, what is this?

And severely restricts N while locking out Mg and P, that could be an explanation for all of my infirmary posts right there, my latest burnt leafs look it using up P maybe? I also had a white rhino with really bad Mg curl that is recovering well after adjusting the PH to the 4.8 - 6 range.

 

[YosemiteSam]

I believe it is Mn instead of Mt...manganese.

 

[Wait...What?]

dont try to nail the pH down to an arbitrary number. let it drift. its SUPPOSED to change over time.


and that quote should be attributed to Lrrr, of the planet Omicron Persei 8.

 

[Bulldog11]

Don't forget that water evaporates naturally and when that happens the nutes will rise.

 

[FreezerBoy]

Only if you're feeding at or over desired rates. Underfeeding will cause both EC and water level to drop. Actually, being a largely sealed system, DWC (which I believe he's running) experiences little evaporation.

 

[lysol]

Sig fixed,

so I should actually run about 5.5 - 6.1 to allow all nutes?

 

[Outportgrower]

Sig fixed,

so I should actually run about 5.5 - 6.1 to allow all nutes?

I go 5.7 to 5.9 the odd time letting it drift above 6.0 just to fill in the blanks. What are you plants telling you? That would be who/what you need to ask that question. Do you see signs of deficiencies at any of you current set levels, if not then you might be ok just not optimum.

Like a friend asked today, what he should get from a seven plant scrog under 12/12 400 watter. He went by the book, 1g per watt x 7 = 2800gr. Ya in dream maybe. So if you are able to have perfect conditions for you entire go without a burp knowing just what the plants need you have everything perfect.

OK I am rambling and need to stop now.................

 

[Magash]

If your wanting to know how much your plants are using mix your nutrients. Take your reading. In a few days to a week come back and fill the res back to the level it was at without adding nutrients yet. Take your readings. The reading before adding the new nutrients should tell you what was used.