F1 Question

[Pantalicious]

So, as a newbie grower, I'm always learning, sometimes more, sometimes a bit less.

Today I came across a post where people were talking about F1 seeds etc etc.
But, in the post it didn't explain what they were exactly.
I was hoping someone could get me a quick explanation about F1 Cannabis seeds and if theres any european trustable seller (as on the post people were talking about Marc Emerys scam).


Thanks in advance,
Pantalicious

 

[BagseedSamurai]

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=filial+generation

 

[GMT]

Technically, an F1 is a cross between 2 unrelated seed lines, each of which should be true breeding (meaning that each individual of each generation should be pretty similar). The true breeding aspect of that gets dropped a lot. So a cross of 2 true F1s is also refered to as an F1, or sometimes a polyhybrid. An F2 is the result of breeding 2 plants that have the same parents, (siblings). Each generation that passes, so long as the parents of the seeds are from the last generation, the number increases by 1.

 

[Pantalicious]

Technically, an F1 is a cross between 2 unrelated seed lines, each of which should be true breeding (meaning that each individual of each generation should be pretty similar). The true breeding aspect of that gets dropped a lot. So a cross of 2 true F1s is also refered to as an F1, or sometimes a polyhybrid. An F2 is the result of breeding 2 plants that have the same parents, (siblings). Each generation that passes, so long as the parents of the seeds are from the last generation, the number increases by 1.

Thank you Growling Mad Toker (hehe)
it really made it clear
Pantalicious

 

[Pantalicious]

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=filial+generation

Also Thanks Samurai,
lmgtfy.com is hilarious

 

[DocLeaf]

GMT nailed it

 

[kopite]

Technically, an F1 is a cross between 2 unrelated seed lines, each of which should be true breeding (meaning that each individual of each generation should be pretty similar).

or from Landrace origin were by they do not have to be pretty similar, although you might have a job to find a landrace

Landrace: early cultivated forms of a crop species, evolved from a wild population.

Inbred line: (1) a pure line usually originating by self-pollination and selection; (2) the product of inbreeding.

The chosen parents are known as P1 etc if the P stock comes from Landrace varierties it is often line bred to a stabilized point although not a necessity, I guess i'm trying to say the landrace would show variation amongst the individuals but be pure for being sativa or indica etc...

Kopite

 

[englishrick]

this thread is gettin loaded with good info, thanks to GMT an Kopite

 

[Pantalicious]

this thread is gettin loaded with good info, thanks to GMT an Kopite

what Rick said

 

[Balance]

So a cross of 2 true F1s is also refered to as an F1, or sometimes a polyhybrid.

I have some reservations about this sentence.

IBL X IBL = true F1
F1 X F1 = Polyhybrid

An IBL is at least a fourth or greater generation (F4), selected for specific traits...
Or as GMT puts it:

true breeding (meaning that each individual of each generation should be pretty similar)

You simply cannot get:

F1 X F1 = F1

 

[love?]

Yea but polyhybrid is such a long word to type that people use F1 colloquially.

 

[dragongrower]

I have seen 1000 true F1 plants, and it never stops amazing me how uniform they are..

True F1 + F1 does not make true F1 offspring, the way I understand it..

 

[kopite]

True F1 + F1 does not make true F1 offspring, the way I understand it..

perhaps P1`was meant instead of F1

IBL X IBL = true F1

or IBL x Land race = true F1, Land race x Land race = true F1

 

[kopite]

I was hoping someone could get me a quick explanation about F1 Cannabis seeds

to summarise that

F1- generation : The progeny produced from a cross between two parents (P1) is called First Filial or F1 generation.

how people get to the chosen Parent stock is debatable, there are many ways to get to be homozygous for chosen traits.. and as stated earlier land races arent stictly homozygous.

I have seen 1000 true F1 plants, and it never stops amazing me how uniform they are..

why would it amaze you ? they contain 50% of each chosen parent and should be uniform.

 

[DocLeaf]

IBL = in bred line

the number of filial generations is irrelevant to what constitutes an ibl,, since different species homogenise themselves at different rates depending on population diversity and selection.

F1 = first filial generation

any cross between any two separate cultivar is the F1. or the first generation cross

'Hybrid vigor' only occurs when both parents came from separate ibl/homogeneous lines.

An F1 Hybrid is thus a first generation cross between to separate homogeneous parents

This is how we understand it at least

Hope this helps

 

[GMT]

Sorry, rather than clearing up confusion I seem to have created some. Love? explained what I actually meant when I said polyhybrids are also refered to as F1s. They aren't supposed to be, and it isn't correct to do so, just pointing out that some people use it. It is in common practice though not strictly correct. Like the IBL designation, it has come to mean In Bred Line, that is what is in common practice, though it actually stands for Inbred Backcrossed Line, and strictly IBL should in most cases be called IL though common practice alters the literal meanings over time. S1's should strictly be f1s, (note the lower case use of f rather than the upper case F which denotes 2 parents), however popular usage of the term S when selfing plants has brought this meaning into acceptability. There are lots of cases of this type of thing with cannabis, and there are 2 camps of thought as to whether we should stick to popular usage or upgrade our definitions to be technically accurate. The important thing at the end of the day is to know what each other are talking about. So if in doubt, ask the breeder what they mean by what they say. Most will only be too happy to talk about their work.

 

[OG bub]

good discussion!
hope yall dont mind if I share my 02/experience.

a cross of unrelated F1 gen (any gen for that matter), results in a polyhybrid.

related F1 crosses are F2's. F2's are where alot more diversity will be found.

and Ill agree with DocLeaf about IBL not being dictated by a specific gen.. results are results, and many lines, depending on the number of parents, etc, will become uniform for some specific traits, sooner or later than others.


peace, bub.

 

[englishrick]

terms are crazy,,,,its all about how we comunicate what we mean,,its impossible to be wrong...

"imo, it IS possible to make an F1 from Parallel lines sourced from the same genome,,,this is similar to MNS SharkShock"


Canna Breeding Terms

F1 = Outcross !,,,,,1st Gen
F2 = Incross !,,,,,2nd Gen
F3 = Incross ! ,,,,3rd Gen

S1 = Selfed 1st Gen Removed!
S2 = Selfed 2st Gen Removed!
S3 = Selfed 3rd Gen Removed!

BX = Backcross


Biology Terms

F1 = Outcross !,,,,,1st Gen
F2 = Incross !,,,,,2nd Gen
F3 = Incross ! ,,,,3rd Gen

f1 = Selfed 1st Gen Removed!
f2 = Selfed 2st Gen Removed!
f3 = Selfed 3rd Gen Removed!

BC = Backcross

IL = Inbreed Line

IBL = Inbreed Backcrossed Line



.............................................................................
did i get this right guys?

 

[OG bub]

I think you got it right overall. I think tho, and have thought for a long time, that there needs to be a common understanding of definitions.

lots folks will take any pack of seeds, no matter the composition, make seeds with them, and call them F2's..... Ive watched this for many years... I glad this thread clears some of that up.

I might not entirely understand what you mean, englishrick, when you say paralell lines. so I wont elaborate on my opinion untill I do.. like you said, whats important is that we understand each other.

when we can do that, we will have much more valuable info to share.

peace, bub.

 

[EvilTwin]

terms are crazy,,,,its all about how we comunicate what we mean,,its impossible to be wrong...

"imo, it IS possible to make an F1 from Parallel lines sourced from the same genome,,,this is similar to MNS SharkShock"


Canna Breeding Terms

F1 = Outcross !,,,,,1st Gen
F2 = Incross !,,,,,2nd Gen
F3 = Incross ! ,,,,3rd Gen

S1 = Selfed 1st Gen Removed!
S2 = Selfed 2st Gen Removed!
S3 = Selfed 3rd Gen Removed!

BX = Backcross


Biology Terms

F1 = Outcross !,,,,,1st Gen
F2 = Incross !,,,,,2nd Gen
F3 = Incross ! ,,,,3rd Gen

f1 = Selfed 1st Gen Removed!
f2 = Selfed 2st Gen Removed!
f3 = Selfed 3rd Gen Removed!

BC = Backcross

IL = Inbreed Line

IBL = Inbreed Backcrossed Line



.............................................................................
did i get this right guys?

Truthfully, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Removed? IL? Selfed vs inbred?

Why don't you just use the standard terminology so people understand...or is it just me?
ET