pH problems and possible nutrient deficiency (w/ clear pictures)

[Unsane]

Hi everyone,

Go easy on me: this is my first grow.

Everything was going fine until I left town for a week. My plants were watered only once (and probably not adequately) during that time. They were also moved to a shadier location for two days before I came back.

When I got back, my plants were drooping, so I decided to give them a compost tea mixture and water them. Most of them perked back up again, except for this one Casey Jones. She was the strongest of the crop, but now the weakest.

Here are some pictures of the weakened Casey Jones (and the Hindu Skunk, which is accounted for later):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40620145@N03/

Looking at the pictures, what do you think the problem is? Nutrient deficiency? pH too high? Over-fertilization? Heat stress? Over-watering? Under-watering?

I performed a pH run-off test (w/ a digital meter) and it indicated that the pH level of the run-off water (which was brown btw) was 7.2. The tap water I used measured an 8.2. I just bought a bottle of "pH Down" and plan to water my plants with pH 6.5 water. Is this the right way to solve my pH problems?

Also, I'm not sure whether the plant is over- or under-fertilized. The tea I have been using is pretty strong stuff, a mix of horse manure, worm castings, compost (from the city), bat guano, kelp powder, molasses, Liquid Karma, and Grandman Enggy's. Is the CJ, in a a nutrient lockdown?

I also have a Hindu Skunk that was very vigorous before I left but which is now lagging behind. What do you think is up with her?

And finally, if you take a look at the pics, I have another Casey Jones that has an interesting curled leaf. Is this an indication of underwatering?

Here is some more info on the plants:

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Strain of Mj? CASEY JONES
Hydroponic or soil? SOIL
From seed or clone? CLONE
Age of plant in question? APPROX 7 WEEKS
What stage (Veg/Flower; how many days into)? VEG, 45 DAYS
Medium (Soil, Rockwool, Hydroton etc.)? SOIL- COMPOST MIXED WITH FOXFARM OCEAN FOREST
Container/Pot size? 15 x 13
Have they been transplanted, if so how long ago? TWICE - WHEN I GOT THEM INTO SMALL POTS, AND THEN ABOUT 10 DAYS LATER INTO THEIR FINAL POTS
If soil, composition ratios (peat moss, perilite, vermiculite etc.)?COMPOST MIXED WITH FOXFARM OCEAN FOREST
Nutrients added? COMPOST TEA (HORSE MANURE, WORM CASTINGS, COMPOST, BAT GUANO, KELP, LIQUID KARMA, GRANDMA ENGGY'S, MOLASSES)
When were they last fed/watered? TODAY
How are you determining when to feed/water (weight, wilting, etc.)? BY WEIGHT
Tap/RO/Distilled water? TAP (ph 8.2)
Light intensity/Age of bulb/Wattage? FULL SUNLIGHT
Day/Night temps (Min.-Max.)? MAX DAY TEMP 78-95F, MIN NIGHT TEMP 56-58F
Is there air blowing directly onto plant? NO
Growing technique (Scrog, Sog, Supercropping etc.)? SOIL POTS OUTDOOR
Has plant recently been pruned, clones taken, fimmed or pinched? NO
Pests? FUNGUS GNATS (TAKEN CARE OF)

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Strain of Mj? HINDU SKUNK
Hydroponic or soil? SOIL
From seed or clone? CLONE
Age of plant in question? APPROX 7 WEEKS
What stage (Veg/Flower; how many days into)? VEG, 45 DAYS
Medium (Soil, Rockwool, Hydroton etc.)? SOIL- COMPOST MIXED WITH FOXFARM OCEAN FOREST
Container/Pot size? 15 x 13
Have they been transplanted, if so how long ago? TWICE - WHEN I GOT THEM INTO SMALL POTS, AND THEN ABOUT 10 DAYS LATER INTO THEIR FINAL POTS
If soil, composition ratios (peat moss, perilite, vermiculite etc.)?COMPOST MIXED WITH FOXFARM OCEAN FOREST
Nutrients added? COMPOST TEA (HORSE MANURE, WORM CASTINGS, COMPOST, BAT GUANO, KELP, LIQUID KARMA, GRANDMA ENGGY'S, MOLASSES)
When were they last fed/watered? TODAY
How are you determining when to feed/water (weight, wilting, etc.)? BY WEIGHT
Tap/RO/Distilled water? TAP (ph 8.2)
Light intensity/Age of bulb/Wattage? FULL SUNLIGHT
Day/Night temps (Min.-Max.)? MAX DAY TEMP 78-95F, MIN NIGHT TEMP 56-58F
Is there air blowing directly onto plant? NO
Growing technique (Scrog, Sog, Supercropping etc.)? SOIL POTS OUTDOOR
Has plant recently been pruned, clones taken, fimmed or pinched? NO
Pests? FUNGUS GNATS (TAKEN CARE OF)

-----------

Thanks for all your help. It's much appreciated!

 

[cave]

hey unsane

it could also be nitrogen toxicity from the horse manuer & compost like you said, i would suggest to water for a week with ph ajusted water and see it that fixes the problem, but i would suggest to test the ec of your run off to. just give the plant water no more ferts for the week, if ph buffered water does not fix it i dont know but i would suggest maybe a transplant might be in order. but sounds like you are on the right track.
best of luck

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688
peace

 

[Smooth B]

They look well fed. Claw leaf = excess nitrogen. Probably too much horse poop.
You got the right idea about figuring your ph. Adjust the fert water ph after adding all the amendments. What about calcium and magnesium? I don't see a source in your tea and any dolomite lime from the store bought soil is/has expired. Not do get technical and your buying stuff, try adding cal mag plus to your "tea". Back off the ferts.........

Peace,

Smooth

 

[Unsane]

Thanks for all your help, cave and Smooth B. :smile:

----Updates----

I watered my plants again today with pH 6.5 water.

The runoff from the CJ was, again, brown and pH 7.2. (The CJ also had the most runoff)

The runoff from the HS was less brown and pH 7.0.

The rest of the plants' runoff was even less brown and around pH 6.9.

Does the brown runoff mean too much ferts? How problematic is this?

Should I flush my CJ, or should I continue to use pH 6.5 water? Or perhaps, should I use pH 6 water?

Again, thanks for all your help!

 

[Weedninja]

You've been given some great advice so far. The only thing that I would disagree with is the cal-mag, because it contains nitrogen, and right now you need more N like you need a hole in your head. I agree that you have overdosed the N and locked out either calcium or magnesium.

Props to ya for trying organic, but organics will cause nute burn almost as easily as chems and they are harder to flush when you mess up. It is easier to flush teas than solids, though.

FFOF is almost a complete soil on its own, meaning that you shouldn't have to add much to it. If anything, I would try a source of N in veg, and a source of P in flower(are you using the high N or the high P guano?).

Here's what I would do:
#1- Do a proper flush with 6.5 water, ASAP. Let it dry.
#2- Add a pinch of pelletized dolomitic lime per gallon of water( I use Espoma's Garden Lime). Add Liquid Karma and then pH. Water the plants with that and let it dry.
#3- Keep pH'ing every time you water.
#4- Next grow, make your mix 20% perlite. It creates air pockets and prevents soil compaction. Its hard to burn with molasses, kelp and worm castings, but you have to be very careful with the shit.

And the brown runoff is probably from pigments in FFOF's peat; nothing to worry about.

 

[Unsane]

FFOF is almost a complete soil on its own, meaning that you shouldn't have to add much to it. If anything, I would try a source of N in veg, and a source of P in flower(are you using the high N or the high P guano?).

EB Stone Bat Guano (9-2-1)--so, high N.

#1- Do a proper flush with 6.5 water, ASAP. Let it dry.

I've read in other threads that the flushing process requires a water to soil ratio of 3:1, is this correct? How would I go about flushing the plant? Should I flush until the runoff is light brown?

Thanks Weedninja

 

[buck912]

Unsane,
I hope you did not use your real first and last name to set up that Picasa web album your pictures are in. If so you may want to correct the situation since I see a name with the initials JH.

 

[B.C.]

Howdy, all in all, I think yer doin fine. Some of those leaves in the pic are on the bottom of the plant, and they die off on there own anyway. I did notice alil micro nute burn on the edges of some leaves, ( not bad tho ) so it might be a good idea to slow down on the kelp or anything else with micro nutes in it. Read up on the stuff yer useing and see what's in it. Also, when ya use molassas it will chelate nutes, so more nutes are being absorbed, so lil goes much farther. Btw, with as much compost and humus as yuv got in that soil, PH shouldn't be an issue. By the looks of things it hasn't been a problem yet. Organics, ya gotta dig it! lol Keep it simple and I think yul be fine, good luck. BC

 

[B.C.]

Oh btw, while I'm thinkg about it...

Oh btw, while I'm thinkg about it...

Claw leaf = excess nitrogen.

When ya under water a plant it loses it's turgor pressure. This is the osmonic water pressure that gives a leaf it's ridgity. With that said, some plants will have the claw affect from them not ever fully recovering from wilting or not having enough water. These plants being outside under the sun need to be watched closely for drying out, don't let em wilt, esp when they start to flower and use almost twice as much water as they do in veg stage. Keeping that vigor going is what makes yeild! Make sure yer pots are plenty big too, atleast one gallon of soil per foot of plant. I thought I'd try an shed alil more light on things so ya don't have problems later. BC

 

[Unsane]

When ya under water a plant it loses it's turgor pressure. This is the osmonic water pressure that gives a leaf it's ridgity. With that said, some plants will have the claw affect from them not ever fully recovering from wilting or not having enough water.

Wow, thanks for the info B.C. It's always nice when someone backs up a claim or piece of advice with biological facts.

What you said, I think, lends credence to my hypothesis that a week of underwatering combined with the intense Californian sunlight crippled the CJ (the largest plant btw).

What can I do to correct the drooping? Before I went away, the CJ leaves were healthy and rigid, but now they constantly droop. Watering helps somewhat, but again its not what it used to be.

 

[Cozy Amnesia]

Images aren't working for me. 404 error.

 

[Unsane]

Images aren't working for me. 404 error.

Problem fixed. Switched to Flickr.

 

[B.C.]

hmm...

hmm...

To be honest I don't really know, it really zaps em when that happens. I'm thinking when they do get too dry they lose alot of the fine roots that take up water, so they can't get up the pressure it takes to make the leaves rigid again. It might be a good idea to park her in the shade for 4-5 days so it takes the stress of the hot sun off her, and maybe she can catch back up with her top half again. I don't really know that it will for sure, but I don't see why it wouldn't though. Roots do grow continuously. If/when they do grow back I'm sure the vigor will pick back up.

Let us know how it goes, please. Good luck! BC

 

[Unsane]

Hours after watering them, the plants perk right back up. In a day however they droop back down. Does this mean I need to water more? Is it time to transplant them?

I will post pictures later. Thanks.

 

[B.C.]

hmm...

hmm...

Well if you have to water every day or every other, try watering more when ya do water. If ya still have to water that often, then yes, they probly do need transplanting.

You could always genltly lay it on it's side ( in the shade ) and grab the main stem close to the soil and -very- gently pull on the pot and take it off to see if it's full of roots. A couple of taps on the bottom may help it come out, if need be. I also like to stick my finger in the hole ( hehe ) at the bottom of the pot to have a way of getting leverage on it.

Vegging for a month in the sun, they probly do have a purty good root system by now. Jus be gentle and go slow if you do check em out.

I'm not sure if this may be the case here, but, plants will sometimes droop right at the dark cycle, and park back up when it's light again.

A couple of profile pctures would help us to see the plant size compared to pot size. later, BC