Plant spacing in a vertical colum?

[tip302327]

I am hoping some of you seasoned vertical growers can give me some insight into how many plants I can put into my garden. I have 3 circular shelves that are 40" I.D. x 60" O.D. x 30" between shelves. Currently I have set up for 16 plants per shelf. @ 7.5 week from seed, it looks like it is going to get to tight.
2 - 1000 hid bulbs

Questions

Would I be better off to drop 2 say, 8 plants per shelf?

What about from clone where I can control veg time?

Since I cannot access the inside of the garden, what might be my best bet for training, Screen on each pot? I know little about training (LST). In the past with my flat gardens I would often top my plants with good results but am going to need direction with this vertical set up. t

 

[Bodhi Roach]

if u can get a uniform set of pots that would help, you will know how long it takes to dry out and when to feed/water more accurately.

if they are still vegging, id flip within next 2 days, you can try it with what you have right now, but do some pruning to keep them like torpedoes. another optionis to let those lower arms grow and then tie them down in a southern position, down in front of its pot, to make use of all the 360* light.

If it gets too tight in 2 weeks after flip, take out a few per level and throw them outside to flower

sry I dont have any suggestions for babies, i sure would like to hear some advice on that topic

 

[tip302327]

Right on the mismatched pots. Kinda got the cart before the horse. I have been tying down the lower branches in an attempt to train them to head south. I suppose I am not real conserned with how these plants grow since they are from seed. More conserned on getting the bugs worked out of the system before the clones go in, maybe in three weeks.

I read that I shouldnt flip 12/12 untill the plants mature. staggered branching and that has not happened yet. Thoughts? its been years since I have had to deal with seeds, what a pain in the rear.

 

[*mistress*]

w/ that # of plants. just flower immediately, or after 1 more week.

cut off 75% of the fan leaves @ initiation of flowering. that is your only current crowd problem; whiuch really isnt a problem.

elimination of fans + lowest 2 branches will make auxins shoot up to tops. aim for 2-3 tops per plant. thats it. would not wait too long to flower. they will only stretch to ~ double current size.

 

[oregon bob]

tip- don't get it... these aren't flowering??? you only have them in there for show/planning & aren't going to "really" start until your new cuttings are ready? it seems odd to me and/or not fully understanding...

So, not knowing if you are keeping those, but if so, then switch immediately. You will have horizontal crowding as the side/lower branches start spreading +++ the plants are going to shoot up into the lower shelving. On this last point, w the height they are now, you will need to train the main shoot outward such that it doesn't cram under the next shelf. They are big for your space. They will be very messy in short order.

Likely need to employ a lot of training/trimming as other suggested. Would not recom cutting any of your fan leaves as these are the energy production centers of the plants. Lower/side shoots or any that isn't get light/buried, go ahead & clip as plant will refocus energy on upper shoots. However, if you cut the leaves, there is just less energy for any & all growth (period).

For the next run, would keep them short & switch w/in 5 days of rooting/transplanting. After this run it will iron itself out, including what you want to do w total numbers.

This one is just going to get a little messy. w/o access, pretty tough to accommodate. Peace & gl.

 

[Bodhi Roach]

I agree with OB, dont cut off any fan leaves, ( I only take them off if they are sickly looking ) they are the essential photosynthesis converter on the plant no?

With this type of show, you are gonna be pruning off the backside anyways, so whatever shoots are coming off the weaker/less robust side of the plant should be cleanly hacked off to let the plant use that energy focus to the side facing the light. Long lower branches will/can surprise you, if trained into the light below the skirtline of itself and above the cola of the plant below, one can get some nice chubbies which would have been cut off and chuck out popcorn in most flat gardens.

Oh, and the lower branches usually root faster.

 

[tip302327]

Ok folks, I am now rowing in circles, to cut the lower fans or not. The age old argument rears its ugly head again, let me think back.....Yep, I ve been here before. LOL. For sure I will finish any of these plants that are girly and with some good news today I may put them into a greenhouse if which would be cool so I can load this vert garden with clones since that is what I desingned it for. Not a waste though...I have learned a bunch already from this forum and hands on. Things I would have never thought about no matter how much planning I would have done. Well this post is certainly going to get interesting since I just hacked the lowest fans (on about 1/2 the plants and trimmed down to the 3 or 4 best shoots on all of the plants. So I now have a direct comparision to share with all of you. Jump in here *mistress* and defend yourself. LOL Fight fair though. I am curious though. I can say that on a previous grow, maybe my 3rd, I cut every fricken large leaf off of a 1/2 dozen sour d "flowering" plants, maybe 4' tall that I had LSTed and wow! got about a 1/2z off of them and they looked spectular. So I dont need to ask about fans in flower. In veg, Hum, have no idea since all my others have been from clone. I started training main shoot inwards already, ok there. No access, yep not real good. Thinking of attaching screen to each individual pot? thoughts? Fricken hemp anyways...should have stuck to chicken choker. HA! Thanks lots for the info all.

 

[*mistress*]

when transplanting, re-conditioning media, and root pruning mums, always take branches/shoots that are not heavily-noded, nor vigourous.
constantly trimming fan leaves that quickly grow back during normal growing; but during transplant, trim ~75% of foliage.
what remains on plant is only strongest limbs and shoots/branches.

1/3-1/5 of the root mass is scissored off too. w/in 7-10 days, shoots will be bursting out of remaining branches.
in tomato world, and other greenhouse plants, this is termed 'thinning'. in bonsai world, termed 'root pruning'...

1-2 more weeks of veg before 12/12, or 16/12, and they will explode - w/ direction of prior thinning.
makes remaining branches (which were selected for strehgth+vigor) form shoots (that can further be thinned to desired #/style) during early flowering, that will end up being 3-8 big flowers by harvest.

the fan leaves will quickly grow back. not to worry. yie_d is in direct proportion to root mass, not fan leaf mass.

fans store food, but the plant is quite capable of making food (sugars) daily - especially when being pushed by the customary 1000 ppm's of modern gardens. they have plenty of npk-ca-mg-s available; no real need for plant to 'store' it. want plant to use it all in 56-77 days...

old thread here about removing fans, or some of them, @ certain times. [maybe old member jrosek(sp?)]not new practice. in greenhouse , simply 'thinning'. mixed in root pruning.

 

[Bodhi Roach]

Hi mistress,

Im not disputing your post, but do you have some links or references to show more about what you are saying? I have read some threads about root pruning when transplanting or sizing down a mom, but about the pruning in flower, this part is something I wouldnt do unless I had some proof that shredding 75% of foliage off would not effect the yield, veg is obviously ok cuz shredding moms for babies is a regular thing. Root mass also plays apart I agree. But would you not think that losing 75% of foliage may cause shock to plant for many days or weeks, causing plant to channel energy to structual re-growth rather than flower production?

this is why+how done in imaginary garden... cutting some fan leaves, that is...

after having bonsai mums, and tending to them for some time, found some interesting things out.

when transplanting, re-conditioning media, and root pruning mums, always take branches/shoots that are not heavily-noded, nor vigourous.

am constantly trimming fan leaves that quickly grow back during normal growing; but during transplant, trim ~75% of foliage.

what remains on plant is only strongest limbs and shoots/branches.

1/3-1/5 of the root mass is scissored off too. transplanted (usually back into same pot), and more coco + myco is placed into pots.

w/in 7-10 days, shoots will be bursting out of remaining branches.

in tomato world, and other greenhouse plants, this is termed 'thinning'. in bonsai world, termed 'root pruning'...

in any event, did this few times and began doing same thing to plants that were going into bloom, from 4-6" square containers. 1-2 more weeks of veg before 12/12, or 16/12, and they will explode - w/ direction of prior thinning.

in conjunction w/ this, foliar spray w/ bloom formula [gh fnb here] @ 1/4-1/5 strength, ~ ph 7.0.

this usually makes remaining branches (which were selected for strehgth+vigor) form shoots (that can further be thinned to desired #/style) during early flowering, that will end up being 3-8 big flowers by harvest.

the fan leaves will quickly grow back. not to worry. yie_d is in direct proportion to root mass, not fan leaf mass.

fans store food, but the plant is quite capable of making food (sugars) daily - especially when being pushed by the customary 1000 ppm's of modern gardens. they have plenty of npk-ca-mg-s available; no real need for plant to 'store' it. want plant to use it all in 56-77 days...

old thread here about removing fans, or some of them, @ certain times. [maybe old member jrosek(sp?)]not new cultural practice. in greenhouse management, simply called 'thinning'. mixed in root pruning, and found effective way to manipulate plants.

note differences, if any, between methods. if ineffective, dont do in your garden. will only require 1 clone to test though.

hope this helps. enjoy your garden!

 

[*mistress*]

Q:
will this"caus[e] plant to channel energy to structual re-growth rather than flower production?"

A:
the new growth (shoots and branches) will be heavily-noded, robust and vigorous. ok for late veg/early flower.

 

[Expat]

Here's my tip Tip.
Don't trim the back branches on a vertical grow, train them forward. My plants end up very one sided but with all her branches in the light. Don't turn em, train em. As far as fan leaves go, you can hook them back out of the way and they still do the job, otherwise if its shading a growing tip, trim it.

 

[tip302327]

In any event, seems the constant would be to know the strain and what methods work and what dont. I know that with container shrubs and what not that buying end of season product from retail stores at deep discounts results in plants that are severly root bound. Many times I have pulled plant from pot and using a knife literally cut deep into the root mass from several directions and removed all of the outside layer prior to transplant. It generally takes a few days for the plant to recover but once it settles in the plant recoupes just fine with what would seem to be abnormally fast growth. I would think that indoor fruit plants would respond in the same manner.

 

[TGT]

Oregobob has it correct - veg clones only to get them use to the medium - max 5 days. There isn't much head room on each shelf. You should do great then. Also, you have a chance to find a killer mother.

TGT