Thoughts on Promix soil?

[Clackamas Coot]

banyard

Sun Gro Horticultural has a product called 'Sunshine Organic Growers Mix' which uses organic, human food-grade yucca extract as their wetting agent.

They also include this specific yucca product in their 'Sunshine Mix #4'

HTH

CC

 

[barnyard]

good to know Clackamas, thanks for sharing

 

[Guerilla Family]

Peat moss

Peat moss

I got some regular old Peat moss from the Shop for next to nothing.. I know that unamended peat moss runs a bit hot. I picked up some palletized lime, but I think what I need is powdered lime. I dont own a PH tester, does anyone know what type of lime would work best to stablise my PH, and how much per CUBIC FT. of peat moss?

GFam

 

[FunkDoctor]

"these mixes are already pH neutral and don't require any lime to "adjust the pH". IMO, the lime only becomes necessary because the grower is over-fertilizing."

I was under the impression that guano is very acidic to a soil over time...

technically, ProMix is stated as 6.4 ph I believe, not necessarily exactely neutral. hard heard many recommend to always add extra lime to ProMix

organic nutrients/soil do benefit from the PH balancing buffering properties of Lime

 

[BurnOne]

technically, the wetting agents in both pro-mix and sunshine mix disqualify from a pure organic grow. Not that I'm that picky, just sayin'

these mixes are already pH neutral and don't require any lime to "adjust the pH". IMO, the lime only becomes necessary because the grower is over-fertilizing.

The wetting agent is soap. Dolomite lime is required for calcium and magnesium.
Burn1

 

[BurnOne]

I got some regular old Peat moss from the Shop for next to nothing.. I know that unamended peat moss runs a bit hot. I picked up some palletized lime, but I think what I need is powdered lime. I dont own a PH tester, does anyone know what type of lime would work best to stablise my PH, and how much per CUBIC FT. of peat moss?

GFam

It sounds to me like you are a beginner to organic growing. I wrote a thread just for you. It's called "Organics for Beginners" and it's a STICKY at the top of this forum. Since I took all that time to write it just for you, how 'bout going to it a read what I wrote. That way I don't have to come here and write it all again.
Thank you.
Burn1

 

[barnyard]

FunkDoctor, you are correct, 6.4 is not "exactly neutral" which would be 7.0. Straight peat moss has a pH of around 3.

Like most plants, MJ like slightly acidic soil with the ideal pH being in the 5.5 to 6.5 range. Lime is going to make your soil more basic pushing the pH closer to 7.

I've never used guano and probably wouldn't add anything to the mix that makes the soil "very acidic" over time. That said, lots of growers use guano successfully.

Also consider that if your water is hard, i.e, contains calcium and magnesium, that watering actually makes the potting soil more basic.

Unless you're pro-actively adjusting the pH of your potting soil (like if you're using straight peat moss) lime is not needed and, in fact, can cause too high a pH for proper elemental ion absorption. The function of lime is to adjust pH and for most organic mixes don't need the pH adjusted ~ unless the grower is over-fertilizing.

 

[barnyard]

Burn1, yes lime does provide calcium and magnesium but there are sources of those elements that don't mess with the pH. Bone meal and epsom salts are obvious examples.

Unless you need to adjust the pH don't use lime.

Also the standard pro-mix (which uses synthetic wetting agents is not ORMI listed) . The two potting soils that are ORMI listed are:

PRO-MIX® for Outdoor
Planting

Pro-Mix® Ultimate
Organic Mix

 

[BurnOne]

Bullpussy!
Bone meal will never provide enough calcium. And why introduce salt into an organic grow? pH isn't an issue in organic growing anyway because humates buffer the pH of organic foods like blood, guano and fish within the grow medium.
Burn1

 

[barnyard]

BurnOne, "there's as many ways to grow MJ as there are MJ growers"

Calcium deficiency is usually only an issue with soils that are too acidic or with erratic watering practices. In fact most water sources contain enough calcium that additional sources are not needed.

 

[BurnOne]

You got me there.
If it works for you, you're doin' it right.
Burn1

 

[FunkDoctor]

Is it true guanos make soil acidic?

I like the idea of adding them to soil, but not at any kind of CUP measurement per gallon of soil...maybe a few tablespoons per Gallon of soil....thoughts?

am I worrying too much about too much guano in soil and it's affects on PH stability of the medium?

also, is blood meal ok to use for true organics? I remember reading something about it being not used for some reasons??? have no idea why. I have always used it with success, just curious what people are talking about (any heavy metals in blood meal?)

thanks, great information here guys. always great to see different views. keep up the good work all!

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Is it true guanos make soil acidic?

I like the idea of adding them to soil, but not at any kind of CUP measurement per gallon of soil...maybe a few tablespoons per Gallon of soil....thoughts?

am I worrying too much about too much guano in soil and it's affects on PH stability of the medium?

also, is blood meal ok to use for true organics? I remember reading something about it being not used for some reasons??? have no idea why. I have always used it with success, just curious what people are talking about (any heavy metals in blood meal?)

thanks, great information here guys. always great to see different views. keep up the good work all!

FunkDoctor

Let me try to answer your questions in the order that you asked.

1. Bat guano lowering the PH of the soil: I've never read or heard of this but then again being a 'organic purist' the whole issue of PH is just so much gibberish but your opinion may well differ.

2. Bloodmeal: I choose not to use both bloodmeal and/or bonemeal for philosophical and/or moral reasons. Having said that there any number of alternatives and most of those I feel are superior.

For example, I'd always choose organic fish bone meal over bovine bonemeal. Others will definitely differ with me on that one.

As far as bloodmeal (nitrogen), I find that the application of seed meals (i.e. cottonseed meal, linseed meal, soybean meal, alfalfa meal, neem seed meal, et al.) are a better source. Again, others will differ with me on that deal as well.

As a grower you have a lot of options. Some will fit into your specific growing program better than other solutions. There is no absolute 'best way' in spite of what you may read on this or other gardening venues.

Peace.

CC

 

[uncle louie]

isn't pro mix a SOILESS mix ?? (no dirt) i use it all the time , mixed w/horse crap

 

[BurnOne]

Is it true guanos make soil acidic?

I like the idea of adding them to soil, but not at any kind of CUP measurement per gallon of soil...maybe a few tablespoons per Gallon of soil....thoughts?

am I worrying too much about too much guano in soil and it's affects on PH stability of the medium?

also, is blood meal ok to use for true organics? I remember reading something about it being not used for some reasons??? have no idea why. I have always used it with success, just curious what people are talking about (any heavy metals in blood meal?)

thanks, great information here guys. always great to see different views. keep up the good work all!

Everything changes pH. If you stick your finger in the soil, you change its pH.

Organic pH issues

I hear a lot of people asking or talking about the pH of their organic soil mix or organic nute solution and how they might correct or adjust it. pH in organics is not an issue like it is in synthetic growing.
The best place to settle the pH issues in organics is within the grow medium. A medium rich in humates (humus) is the place to start. Humates work to "buffer" the pH of organic mediums and the nutes you pour (or mix) into it.
Humates come from compost, worm castings and bottled humus. If you use a peat based medum, use dolomite lime to raise the pH of the acidic peat. Dolomite should be used in any soil or soiless medium to provide magnesium and calcium. But since we are talking about pH here, I'll mention dolomite lime's pH correction benefits.
A medium of coir has a pH near neutral (or 7.0). But humates are still neded to allow uptake of organic nutrients that are outside a near neutral pH range.
With an active medium rich in humates you can pour in nutes like Pure Blend Pro, Earth Juice and guano teas way outside the optimum pH range without worry. The humus will allow the nutes to be taken up through the roots, even at such an extreme pH reading.
So throw those pH meters away folks and enjoy the ease and safety of organic gardening.

Burn1

 

[reverev313]

it is a soilless mix so ph like hydo 6.0-6.2.. i been using promix for years with great results. i 1/4 perlite and 4 tablespoons of jumpstart per 5gal bucket... i mix the orange and green bale then add the perlite fill the bucket a 1/4 way then add the jump start then fill it up works great......the orange bale has micorise and the green has biofungicide

 

[charles_bronson]

it is a soilless mix so ph like hydo 6.0-6.2.. i been using promix for years with great results. i 1/4 perlite and 4 tablespoons of jumpstart per 5gal bucket... i mix the orange and green bale then add the perlite fill the bucket a 1/4 way then add the jump start then fill it up works great......the orange bale has micorise and the green has biofungicide

im a little confused what the advantage of mixing myco (root fungus) with the biofungicide unless the fungacide doesn't do any harm

 

[przcvctm]

Every time I ask that same question at several different sites, the thread dies, with a collective head-scratch.

I'd also like to know how long an opened and partially used bag is good to use. If my current experiment with Amazon Bloom doesn't work out I want to try LC#2 with Promix. A 3.8 cu ft would last me years.

 

[przcvctm]

Bump. Even though this isn't my thread, I refuse to accept it's death spiral w/out someone taking a shot at an answer.

 

[BurnOne]

I'd also like to know how long an opened and partially used bag is good to use.

Bag of what? If you're talking about a bag of peat, yes. That's fine to use it.
Burn1