What's new
  • Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
  • Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!

Legalizing Marijuana The Federalist Way

vta

Active member
Veteran
Legalizing Marijuana The Federalist Way

By Ross Raffin
Source: Stanford Progressive

cannabis California -- Many advocates of legalizing or decriminalizing marijuana feel Obama has abandoned them. White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel is a consistent warrior against decriminalization. Attorney General Eric Holder has a history of opposing drug policy reforms and considers the adult use of marijuana equivalent to public nuisance. Even Joe Biden, when asked about pain management and medical cannabis, responded that “there's got to be a better answer than marijuana.” But the reality is that the Obama administration has turned the tides in favor of legalization and decriminalization in a much stronger and subtler way than open rhetorical endorsements.

Optimism for drug reform began when Obama ended federal raids on cannabis dispensaries in states which allow medical marijuana. What marijuana advocates fail to realize is that with this the Obama administration initiated a small but extremely important step towards legalization. More importantly, it has done so in a way to insulate itself from Republican attacks and attempts to distract the public.

At the heart of the marijuana debate is federalism, the separation of state and national governmental power. For most of America's history, marijuana was treated as a crop subject to state regulation. However, the national government justified regulating marijuana through a variety of means, mainly the Commerce Clause of the Constitution which gives Congress power to regulate inter-state trade. This line of reasoning was forcefully used by the John Ashcroft in 2001 to enforce federal raids on medical marijuana dispensaries.

When a state legalizes marijuana, medical or otherwise, state law is in contradiction with federal law. This grey area leads to very confusing legal proceedings. For instance, if a state patrolman finds a medical marijuana patient in possession of marijuana, nothing happens. However, if a federal officer found a medical marijuana patient in possession of the same amount of marijuana, the federal officer can and usually will arrest the patient and prosecute under federal law. This hypocrisy is at the base of the current trials going on against elderly medical marijuana patients.

The Obama administration drastically changed this dynamic with just a slight alteration of criteria for federal intervention with marijuana dispensaries. Eric Holder announced that the federal government will no longer pursue medical marijuana dispensaries or patients unless they violate both federal and state laws. In the case of California, because medical marijuana is legal, federal intervention is no longer allowed in cases where California's medical marijuana laws are not broken. Thus, if California were to fully legalize marijuana, under current policy the federal government would not intervene.

This leaves Republicans in a very tough spot. Small government is the bedrock foundation of the party. However, if a “liberal” state legalizes marijuana, the only tool left to combat the legalization of marijuana is for the federal government to extend power over state government. Obama's actions cannot be criticized as an attempt to “deregulate” marijuana. Instead, it is a triumph of state rights over federal intervention.

More importantly, any attempt to fight state legalization of marijuana through suit automatically goes to the Supreme Court. This creates an opportunity to strike down previous legislation criminalizing marijuana as opposed to having the Democrats introduce a bill on the Senate floor to legalize pot.

Consider the alternative strategy of legalizing marijuana on a national level first through Obama. In the current political environment, the leading accusations against the president range from terrorist to Marxist to illegal alien. Imagine the campaigns that could be waged if Obama so much as hinted that he wants to legalize marijuana. Not only would there be insinuations that Obama wants drugs for personal use, but inevitably racial dynamics and stereotypes would enter discourse. It would be the ultimate redirect from the economy. Instead of focusing on regulations and expenditures, emphasis would be on the president who is destroying traditional American values with reefer.

If Obama or the Democrats proposed legalization, all the Republicans have to do is have several governors or senators who refuse to implement the federal law. This would frame the argument as Obama trying to extend the government's power to regulate what some consider the moral fabric of society. With just a few rhetorical shuffles, Obama's proposal could be linked to general monetary and budget extensions of power. This would be like the Republican's in the 30s arguing against the New Deal as a whole by linking it with a government proposal to force states to legalize prostitution.

The Obama administration's public hesitation towards marijuana legalization is not only understandable but, considering the impact of the current economic legislation and programs the administration is endorsing, the most pragmatic and efficient route for the moment. Legalization and decriminalization advocates should focus efforts on state-wide legalization, not nation-wide. If states are challenged in lawsuits, than the Supreme Court will be forced to rule on whether legislation criminalizing marijuana should be struck down. This is preferable to the executive putting forward a proposal to legalize marijuana from the top down. When Obama tells the country that marijuana legalization is not the path he chooses for America, he means to say that the path must first be drawn by us.
 

Danknuggler

Active member
Good read.I see your point.I'm pretty baked and I really got into that there for a minute, thanks.nuggler
 

minigreens

Member
i had heard people saying obama has some plan and wondered if it was possible. thanks for the article. intriguing and inspiring if thats whats going down

contact your state reps. let em know were here
 
Looks like nothing more than an apologist for Obama's oppression of human beings that like cannabis to me. His opinion piece ends with the author telling us what Obama REALLY means to say. As if he knows? I know Obama better than him, guaranteed, and that isn't what Obama really means to say. And frankly, most thinking adults are already sick of hearing of what Obama means to say and are starting to look at his actual actions and policies, which are not put forward completely honestly in this fluff piece either.

Obama has never said anything about Federalism or state's rights concerning this or other issues, contrary to what this author leads us to believe. Obama made a campaign statement, and then his AG made a press conference statement. Other than that, pretty much nothing has changed from Bush to Obama except who issues the go order on the SWAT raids of sick people.

Democrats and Republicans are both the problem. One isn't better than the other, they both are failures and have been for centuries actually. (Democrats especially slaughtered the Indians, prolonged the slave trade, oppressed women and minorities, etc etc etc.) History shows they are always at least 20 years behind the times, causing great human suffering while we sit around and wait for them to finally start doing the right thing. We should learn from our history. Being less evil isn't good enough because it causes more suffering. We should have more respect for our fellow people than to keep voting for politicians that will lock them in a cage just in case it may cost them a few votes.
 

chubbynugs

Registered Pothead
Veteran
Looks like nothing more than an apologist for Obama's oppression of human beings that like cannabis to me. His opinion piece ends with the author telling us what Obama REALLY means to say. As if he knows? I know Obama better than him, guaranteed, and that isn't what Obama really means to say. And frankly, most thinking adults are already sick of hearing of what Obama means to say and are starting to look at his actual actions and policies, which are not put forward completely honestly in this fluff piece either.

Obama has never said anything about Federalism or state's rights concerning this or other issues, contrary to what this author leads us to believe. Obama made a campaign statement, and then his AG made a press conference statement. Other than that, pretty much nothing has changed from Bush to Obama except who issues the go order on the SWAT raids of sick people.

Democrats and Republicans are both the problem. One isn't better than the other, they both are failures and have been for centuries actually. (Democrats especially slaughtered the Indians, prolonged the slave trade, oppressed women and minorities, etc etc etc.) History shows they are always at least 20 years behind the times, causing great human suffering while we sit around and wait for them to finally start doing the right thing. We should learn from our history. Being less evil isn't good enough because it causes more suffering. We should have more respect for our fellow people than to keep voting for politicians that will lock them in a cage just in case it may cost them a few votes.
I totally agree with your statement. Any winning politician these days are under the same flag when it comes down to it. Capitalism.
 
No man, you are WAY off there. Capitalism has very little to do it with. POWER is the flag they are under when it comes down to it, and using anything they can to get that power. Government, religion, emotion, capitalism, union thugs, deceit, doesn't matter to the Rs and Ds any more. Capitalism isn't evil, it is nature and thus neutral. Capitalism is no more or less than two free people mutually agreeing to trade property without force or fraud. Nothing evil about that. But government POWER is always evil, because the only way government gets power is by taking away freedom. So to correct your inaccurate statement.

Any winning politician these days are under the same flag when it comes down to it. Government Power at the expense of personal freedom.
 

PharmaCan

Active member
Veteran
VTA - Thanks for the article. Unfortunately, the author is full of crap and nothing more than a supporter of the War on Drugs. We can't do the right thing because the Republicans might get angry and try to use it against us? What a crock.

A recent poll showed that 52% of Americans think MJ should be legalized for personal adult use. If Obama wanted to legalize MJ under the guise of ending prohibition, decreasing the Mexican drug violence and providing a new source of tax revenue, the American public would be generally receptive to those ideas. Obama right now can get the vast majority of the media to spin things any way he wants them spun. All it takes is to say "end prohibition" instead of "legalize marijuana" and public acceptance will soar.

Bobbleheadjed hit the nail on the head - the clowns in power don't want to give up their power. Taking that one step further, there are big-money interests that would deny contributions to those supporting legalization and that is a mortal sin from a politician's standpoint.

PC
 

VanVulpen

Well-known member
Veteran
No man, you are WAY off there. Capitalism has very little to do it with. POWER is the flag they are under when it comes down to it, and using anything they can to get that power. Government, religion, emotion, capitalism, union thugs, deceit, doesn't matter to the Rs and Ds any more. Capitalism isn't evil, it is nature and thus neutral. Capitalism is no more or less than two free people mutually agreeing to trade property without force or fraud. Nothing evil about that. But government POWER is always evil, because the only way government gets power is by taking away freedom. So to correct your inaccurate statement.

Any winning politician these days are under the same flag when it comes down to it. Government Power at the expense of personal freedom.

You are so right about that! Coming from an ex-comunist country i can honestly tell you that there's nothing wrong with capitalism. It is always the government who fucks up everything. I hear that the Americans are quite naive, i mean, no offense guys, but do you really believe that Obama gives a shit about it? He's a christian, i should know i am a renegade one.These guys are really fucked in the head, they are enjoying government so much, sheeps included, cause it keeps the sinners away, the potheads, the whores, the homosexuals, the ethnics, etc. etc... I could probably imagine him privately still smoking some of the finest, i know i would, but as he is... officialy he's standing for the christians and he's acting as such :fsu:

In fact i'm so baked that i am starting to think that he's just a puppet in the hands of forces beyond my comprehension which will continue to attack our basic freedoms, Americans or not :yoinks:
 
H

herbal essences

In fact i'm so baked that i am starting to think that he's just a puppet in the hands of forces beyond my comprehension which will continue to attack our basic freedoms, Americans or not :yoinks:

watch the obama deception
 

anarchist

Member
problem is greedy corporations who control government and government control us. capitalism is not bad but corporate capitalism and consumerism is bad.
 

chubbynugs

Registered Pothead
Veteran
No man, you are WAY off there. Capitalism has very little to do it with. POWER is the flag they are under when it comes down to it, and using anything they can to get that power. Government, religion, emotion, capitalism, union thugs, deceit, doesn't matter to the Rs and Ds any more. Capitalism isn't evil, it is nature and thus neutral. Capitalism is no more or less than two free people mutually agreeing to trade property without force or fraud. Nothing evil about that. But government POWER is always evil, because the only way government gets power is by taking away freedom. So to correct your inaccurate statement.

Any winning politician these days are under the same flag when it comes down to it. Government Power at the expense of personal freedom.
I hear what you are saying dude. But what gives people power in the first place? What is the root of power? The way you describe capitalism is all gravy if our society was all on the same page. We are not though and we have turned capitalism into the leading force that drives all nations. Its all a kindergarten game that these politicians play of who has more then the other and who can be taken advantage of. You call it POWER i call it modernized capitalism. Remember when you are buying property from a mutual seller even if you trade without force or fraud you still have to pay your cut to your government. That cut thus fuels capitalism. And the only reason a government takes away freedoms from people is because they make money off of things being illegal. BTW all things are illegal because the government makes money off of everything and if they dont get their cut you go to jail. Too bad the days of trading and bartering are over in mainstream US.
 

slappyjack

Member
a christian who supports aborting life.
not judging just saying...

Like most American christians, he's not a wacko fundamentalist. That's really all you need to know. Hardly a shocker, and nowhere near a scandal.

On the other hand if you're not interested in reality, he's apparently a christian muslim commie socialist fascist.
 
J

JackTheGrower

"This leaves Republicans in a very tough spot. Small government is the bedrock foundation of the party. However, if a “liberal” state legalizes marijuana, the only tool left to combat the legalization of marijuana is for the federal government to extend power over state government."

As soon as Republicans can they spend us blind into debt and wreck the economy in pursuit of building wealth for a small percentage of the worlds population.

I read that the major Republican complaint about legalizing Cannabis is that it only spreads money around it doesn't create wealth.

Well "By Golly Miss Molly" that is how jobs are created.. The grower grows a crop, the consumer buys that crop in some form and also spends relative to that purchase like orders some coffee and pie with that hash and there are jobs and happy working class people everywhere..

From what I can tell that's a bad thing to Republicans.

Also Republicans will defend the right to shoot and kill starving people if it means they save their control under capitalism. IMO that is.

So it's Capitalism on the way up, socialism ( with bail outs ) on the way down, Small Government when faced with any regulation and near A Military State and large Government if the people want LIBERTY.

How about this for a new Republican Motto? "Keeping Liberty and the pursuit of happiness at bay for the sake of building wealth for a few."

Jack
 

SpasticGramps

Don't Drone Me, Bro!
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Both parties are corrupt to the core. The bigger the government gets the more brazen it will get. One day they are going to wake up at your doorstep, taking away your things, and your going to be asking how did that happen. Capitalism is by no means perfect, but it's the best economic model.

There is nothing wrong with capitalism. Humans seek to control one another. It is how we are in the state of nature. (The idealist will disagree) The founding fathers knew that and tried to protect us with the Constitution, that's a real joke now. Both parties have wiped their ass with document. A politicians only job is to get reelected. That's it. Not to take care of you or care about you. They work to get reelected to maintain power.
 

funker

Active member
the conservative jackass Antonin Scalia made the anti-Federalist decision to side against Angela Raich several years ago...that was the swing vote and goes to show that social conservatives will do anything to rationalize their stupid fucking drug war, even turn their back on their avowedly federalist beliefs...total scam...at any rate these types are marginalizing themselves and only losing influence...i think this sotomayor woman will be an awful justice regarding issues that concern our community so let's hope we don't have to go back to the SCOTUS to get it done...
 

chubbynugs

Registered Pothead
Veteran
Both parties are corrupt to the core. The bigger the government gets the more brazen it will get. One day they are going to wake up at your doorstep, taking away your things, and your going to be asking how did that happen. Capitalism is by no means perfect, but it's the best economic model.

There is nothing wrong with capitalism. Humans seek to control one another. It is how we are in the state of nature. (The idealist will disagree) The founding fathers knew that and tried to protect us with the Constitution, that's a real joke now. Both parties have wiped their ass with document. A politicians only job is to get reelected. That's it. Not to take care of you or care about you. They work to get reelected to maintain power.
Your statements are a two sided sword brother. Why even support politicians and not speak against them if you believe so? This is the problem brother we know what is right and we will still vote in the negative. I have fully given up in our political system. There is no point in defending any countries government because at their basis they all revolve around the same thing.
Also the constitution needs to get rewritten IMO. There are some basic human rights that need to be upheld but there are too many loopholes in our constitution. I dont believe any idealogy should be the basis of any government. We are a christian society whether we like it or not and this makes us fake just for that reason.
 
I

IE2KS_KUSH

Sillies lol! Don't you know? Didn't you read on one of our previous threads that got locked quite some time ago?
Politics is a touchy area, as I recall, it was something like, so and so thread locked, and the jist of the reasoning was that we don't need to talk about anything that would be critical or negative of Obama as it pertains to cannabis politically. We are however, free to mention anything that is "positive", such as the "But Holder said....SEE!" And so on. Get it. It's ok, as long as you are in agreement that Obama is liberating all of us yes indeedy LMFAO. But BobbleHeadJed, damn you! Did you forget we aren't allowed to say anything about Obama and his current administrations policies w/ regard to cannabis if we are not sipping of the kool aid. I know, I know, I said "kool aid" and I know I know, as it's been mentioned, just saying that means that I am an evil baby eating nea con nazi devil man, and I am racist too. But really, that was the impression that I got w/ regard to posting any kind of contrarty viewpoints to the commonly held view that Obama is just the greatest thing since sliced bread rock star liberator of the oppressed, and on and on.

So yeah.
This will get locked, like every other thread that anyone has ever pointed out the shortcomings of this administration on. (Of course under the guise of "oh yeah politics is touchy we don't really get into those discussions here, nevermind the endless pages and pages of drooling liberal rantings," I mean, we tolerate that.)
LoL, oh well though, it wouldn't be half as fun any other way I guess.
Way to go BHJ lol!
+Rep to ya bro.
Even if the thread is closed, the ideas have been put out there yet again, and there isn't any way to stop that.
Truth always wins.
 
Top