The ego.

[weatherboxes]

The first thing to be understood is what ego is. A child is born. A child is born without any knowledge, any consciousness of his own self. And when a child is born the first thing he becomes aware of is not himself; the first thing he becomes aware of is the other. It is natural, because the eyes open outwards, the hands touch others, the ears listen to others, the tongue tastes food and the nose smells the outside. All these senses open outwards.

That is what birth means. Birth means coming into this world, the world of the outside. So when a child is born, he is born into this world. He opens his eyes, sees others. 'Other' means the thou. He becomes aware of the mother first. Then, by and by, he becomes aware of his own body. That too is the other, that too belongs to the world. He is hungry and he feels the body; his need is satisfied, he forgets the body.

This is how a child grows. First he becomes aware of you, thou, other, and then by and by, in contrast to you, thou, he becomes aware of himself.

This awareness is a reflected awareness. He is not aware of who he is. He is simply aware of the mother and what she thinks about him. If she smiles, if she appreciates the child, if she says, "You are beautiful," if she hugs and kisses him, the child feels good about himself. Now an ego is born.

Through appreciation, love, care, he feels he is good, he feels he is valuable, he feels he has some significance.

A center is born.

But this center is a reflected center. It is not his real being. He does not know who he is; he simply knows what others think about him. And this is the ego: the reflection, what others think. If nobody thinks that he is of any use, nobody appreciates him, nobody smiles, then too an ego is born: an ill ego; sad, rejected, like a wound; feeling inferior, worthless. This too is the ego. This too is a reflection.

First the mother - and mother means the world in the beginning. Then others will join the mother, and the world goes on growing. And the more the world grows, the more complex the ego becomes, because many others' opinions are reflected.

The ego is an accumulated phenomenon, a by-product of living with others. If a child lives totally alone, he will never come to grow an ego. But that is not going to help. He will remain like an animal. That doesn't mean that he will come to know the real self, no.

The real can be known only through the false, so the ego is a must. One has to pass through it. It is a discipline. The real can be known only through the illusion. You cannot know the truth directly. First you have to know that which is not true. First you have to encounter the untrue. Through that encounter you become capable of knowing the truth. If you know the false as the false, truth will dawn upon you.

Ego is a need; it is a social need, it is a social by-product. The society means all that is around you - not you, but all that is around you. All, minus you, is the society. And everybody reflects. You will go to school and the teacher will reflect who you are. You will be in friendship with other children and they will reflect who you are. By and by, everybody is adding to your ego, and everybody is trying to modify it in such a way that you don't become a problem to the society.

They are not concerned with you.

They are concerned with the society.

Society is concerned with itself, and that's how it should be.

They are not concerned that you should become a self-knower. They are concerned that you should become an efficient part in the mechanism of the society. You should fit into the pattern. So they are trying to give you an ego that fits with the society. They teach you morality. Morality means giving you an ego which will fit with the society. If you are immoral, you will always be a misfit somewhere or other. That's why we put criminals in the prisons - not that they have done something wrong, not that by putting them in the prisons we are going to improve them, no. They simply don't fit. They are troublemakers. They have certain types of egos of which the society doesn't approve. If the society approves, everything is good.

One man kills somebody - he is a murderer.

And the same man in wartime kills thousands - he becomes a great hero. The society is not bothered by a murder, but the murder should be committed for the society - then it is okay. The society doesn't bother about morality.

Morality means only that you should fit with the society.

If the society is at war, then the morality changes.

If the society is at peace, then there is a different morality.

 

[spyvsspy]

Whoa, I think I just had an acid flashback. Thats some deep shit, did you write this?

 

[weatherboxes]

Whoa, I think I just had an acid flashback. Thats some deep shit, did you write this?

No, I wish. I just love reading about social psychology and anthropology. It's always so interesting. Enjoy guys.
I notice a lot of "psychedelic users" speak about doing away with or "dissolving" the ego. I personally don't think that is at all possible. This article clears that up and explains the necessity of an ego. It is possible however, to be aware of the ego enough to "deflate" it. A lot of us in here have "ego's that don't fit." That isn't necessarily a bad thing. We just have a heightened sense of when society is bullshitting us and when we should fight back.
Any thoughts, agreement, or disagreement?

 

[ocean99]

Nice read, what's it from? Can you suggest any social psychology books? I eat that shit up.

I've only ever read one psychoanalytical essay but I really wanna get my hands on some more, good shit.

 

[weatherboxes]

Nice read, what's it from? Can you suggest any social psychology books? I eat that shit up.

I've only ever read one psychoanalytical essay but I really wanna get my hands on some more, good shit.

For psychology: Sigmund Freud's The Ego and the Id. This goes really really deep into the ego. It talks about how our ego's mediate between the Id; the part of us that desires illegal, immoral, unethical, and unhealthy things and the super ego; the part of us that is superbly moral and ethical (God-like). It's deep man to say the least.
For anthropology: Marvin Harris' Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches. This guy is very interesting. He likes to tie everything back to an economical reason. It keep reinforcing the idea that "money makes the world go round." Not just physical money either. Plus this book is a lot less boring than Freud's work.

 

[ocean99]

I tried reading some Freud and couldn't really get into it, I'll see if borders has Marvin Harris. Thanks.

If you're into not boring psychology you should check out the Divided Self by RD Laing. Kinda a-typical, it's about the thought processes that get people into deep catatonia and schizophrenic/manic states. The only psychology book I've ever read and I'm just a tad bit more nutty because of it. He was all about LSD before it was scheduled, that's what a lot of his work is based on.

 

[weatherboxes]

I tried reading some Freud and couldn't really get into it, I'll see if borders has Marvin Harris. Thanks.

If you're into not boring psychology you should check out the Divided Self by RD Laing. Kinda a-typical, it's about the thought processes that get people into deep catatonia and schizophrenic/manic states. The only psychology book I've ever read and I'm just a tad bit more nutty because of it. He was all about LSD before it was scheduled, that's what a lot of his work is based on.

This book was recommended to me before.. I just never acted on it. I dig existentialist writers. I am finding a lot of it in my own writing. I'm for sure gonna give it a read. Thank you.

 

[ocean99]

This book was recommended to me before.. I just never acted on it. I dig existentialist writers. I am finding a lot of it in my own writing. I'm for sure gonna give it a read. Thank you.

I pimp that shit whenever the topic comes up, you'll like it.

 

[spyvsspy]

Interesting stuff weatherboxes. I might have to check out Marvin Harris' work. I took alot of psychology classes, scientific history, etc. in college, and I read Freuds, Ego and Id. However I couldn't really get into it either, probably because it was forced reading for a class.....I was pretty bad about that. But You're a deep thinker there weatherboxes.........I like your style.
And Ocean, I had a prof who was wild about RD Laing, never read it though, might have to check it out post-college days.

And I'm gonna go ahead and agree that it is not at all possible to completely do away with the ego. "Deflating" it yes, but I think it is a necessary part of the self, however large or small it may be

 

[weatherboxes]

Interesting stuff weatherboxes. I might have to check out Marvin Harris' work. I took alot of psychology classes, scientific history, etc. in college, and I read Freuds, Ego and Id. However I couldn't really get into it either, probably because it was forced reading for a class.....I was pretty bad about that. But You're a deep thinker there weatherboxes.........I like your style.
And Ocean, I had a prof who was wild about RD Laing, never read it though, might have to check it out post-college days.

And I'm gonna go ahead and agree that it is not at all possible to completely do away with the ego. "Deflating" it yes, but I think it is a necessary part of the self, however large or small it may be

For sure man, thanks. Freud is boring, but I powered through it. I believe this writer is trying to say that the ego is the self. Without it we'd be like babbling monkeys eating our own shit, literally. Think about growing up completely alone on an island or even a completely isolated room where food is given to us from a small sliding door. No interaction with another human being at all. That person would rely primarily on animalistic instinct. Eat, shit, sleep, survive. They wouldn't develop any means of communication, consciousness, morality, etc. It's trippy for me to think about atleast. The self or "we" are reflections of others opinions, thoughts, and actions towards us. It's as simple as someone saying "Dude, don't pick your nose in public that's gross." Haha, mundane but true.

 

[spyvsspy]

For sure man, thanks. Freud is boring, but I powered through it. I believe this writer is trying to say that the ego is the self. Without it we'd be like babbling monkeys eating our own shit, literally. Think about growing up completely alone on an island or even a completely isolated room where food is given to us from a small sliding door. No interaction with another human being at all. That person would rely primarily on animalistic instinct. Eat, shit, sleep, survive. They wouldn't develop any means of communication, consciousness, morality, etc. It's trippy for me to think about atleast. The self or "we" are reflections of others opinions, thoughts, and actions towards us. It's as simple as someone saying "Dude, don't pick your nose in public that's gross." Haha, mundane but true.

Hmmmmmm, so the ego is not just a part of the self, but it IS the self. Crazy man, I forgot how much I like this stuff.
What we know as "deviant behavior" is only deviant in the eyes of someone who sees it as deviant, and the society that labeled it as deviant.
That reminds me of those sad stories you see on the news about 14 year old kids who are discovered in their parents basements, who have been there literally their whole lives, only receiving food on a rare basis. They have never had ANY social interaction, even with their parents. Literally ALL they know is, as you said, "eat, sleep, shit and survive" Sad, but true. Once discovered and exposed to the "world" as we know it...........I wonder how they took it. A follow up on one of these sad cases of child abuse would be interesting to study in relation to your original post. I'm sure they're out there somewhere, could be worth some research.

 

[ocean99]

http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/en/laing.htm

I just sparked up my own interests in Laing again and came upon this little gem, I haven't finished reading it yet but from what I can tell the Politics of Experience is going to be my next read.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Sanity too is defined by the society that you live in.......in some parts of the world you could be deemed as being insane for doing things that in another part of the globe might be acceptable.......

....and yes the thread-starter has posted an interesting post concerning ego......many of us look to those around us to fathom what our own self worth is........this can add or detract from what 'ego's' we see ourselves as having....

In recent years the internet has offered us all a portal to socialize in ways that we never had before, and forum sites such as this offer us a way to express ourselves and develop persona's based upon the reactions others make to what we post.......so helping to develop the self, or ego......

 

[weatherboxes]

Sanity too is defined by the society that you live in.......in some parts of the world you could be deemed as being insane for doing things that in another part of the globe might be acceptable.......

....and yes the thread-starter has posted an interesting post concerning ego......many of us look to those around us to fathom what our own self worth is........this can add or detract from what 'ego's' we see ourselves as having....

In recent years the internet has offered us all a portal to socialize in ways that we never had before, and forum sites such as this offer us a way to express ourselves and develop persona's based upon the reactions others make to what we post.......so helping to develop the self, or ego......

i love your take on sanity. we studied ethnocentrism in one of my first anthropology classes. to each society their own i say. there are actually tribes in New Guinea if i can remember correctly??? that believe life force is found in adult males sperm. so young children of the tribe "drink" the sperm in order to promote life, health, and fertility (i say drink only to keep this from getting x rated). something that would emotionally scar the fuck out of a child in pretty much every developed and underdeveloped country has a totally different meaning for a child there. studies have shown that they don't view it as rape or molestation. it has no negative affect on their sanity or psyche.. only positive because of what they believe it does for them. damn, i wish more people would get into this post. this could get very interesting.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

i love your take on sanity. we studied ethnocentrism in one of my first anthropology classes. to each society their own i say. there are actually tribes in New Guinea??? if i can remember correctly... that believe life force is found in adult males sperm. so young children of the tribe "drink" the sperm in order to promote life, health, and fertility (i say drink only to keep this from getting x rated). something that would emotionally scar the fuck out of a child in pretty much every developed and underdeveloped country has a totally different meaning for a child there. studies have shown that they don't view it as rape or molestation. it has no negative affect on their sanity or psyche.. only positive because of what they believe it does for them. damn, i wish more people would get into this post. this could get very interesting.

Yes....it is a strange world that we live in that from country to country the form and behavior of people is controlled by the laws that are put upon us by various governments that have gained the right (usually by force) to control how we should lead our lives if we are not to be deemed insane or criminal, then incarcerated (locked up)....and disgraced.....

I remember when I had my shop in the UK and every friday a throng of Catholics would walk around the suburban London streets bare foot, even in the freezing winter.....and I have witnessed on good friday devotees of this religion crucifying themselves on Luzon in the Philippines and thought this behaviour was insane......

I have seen hundreds of bullocks sacrificed in Durbar Square in Kathmandu, Nepal during the Hindu Kali festival as many people flagellate and pierce themselves and thought this was insane too......Cannibalism has been o.k. in many tribal societies for centuries but in most societies today you would be considered mad to be doing that.......that brings us to cannabis use (to be topical) where in the Rastafarian religion it is a sacrament but in many places you can be jailed for using/distributing it.......

There are many other examples of what is socially acceptable in one place but not in another......it all depends where you are and what you do (or do not do) when you are there.....

 

[weatherboxes]

Yes....it is a strange world that we live in that from country to country the form and behavior of people is controlled by the laws that are put upon us by various governments that have gained the right (usually by force) to control how we should lead our lives if we are not to be deemed insane or criminal, then incarcerated (locked up)....and disgraced.....

I remember when I had my shop in the UK and every friday a throng of Catholics would walk around the suburban London streets bare foot, even in the freezing winter.....and I have witnessed on good friday devotees of this religion crucifying themselves on Luzon in the Philippines and thought this behaviour was insane......

I have seen hundreds of bullocks sacrificed in Durbar Square in Kathmandu, Nepal during the Hindu Kali festival as many people flagellate and pierce themselves and thought this was insane too......Cannibalism has been o.k. in many tribal societies for centuries but in most societies today you would be considered mad to be doing that.......that brings us to cannabis use (to be topical) where in the Rastafarian religion it is a sacrament but in many places you can be jailed for using/distributing it.......

There are many other examples of what is socially acceptable in one place but not in another......it all depends where you are and what you do (or do not do) when you are there.....

man i can't wait to do some actual traveling. like being 19 i have school on my plate and financial limitations. i have been to much of western europe, mexico, central america, and canada. i wouldn't expect to experience much of a cultural diversity there. it seems like you get around gypsy. haha.
but yeah, we just can't judge things by the standards of our own culture. if only everyone could get past ethnocentrism we'd be on the path to a more peaceful world.

 

[whiterabbit9]

That is some very interesting, deep, knowledge about life.

If nobody thinks that he is of any use, nobody appreciates him, nobody smiles, then too an ego is born: an ill ego; sad, rejected, like a wound; feeling inferior, worthless.

yeah I feel like that and got a lot of that

 

[ocean99]

I got babysat by barney, wtf kind of ego does that produce? That's not to say I didn't have attention and love from my parents, but it just makes me wonder with all this talk of early ego development what effect the barney "happy happy happy" doctrine has on kids.

 

[Babbabud]

You might enjoy reading some of this. It explains ego loss in the psychedelic language.

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/psychedelic_experience/psychedelic_experience.shtml

 

[cellardweller]

.
but yeah, we just can't judge things by the standards of our own culture. if only everyone could get past ethnocentrism we'd be on the path to a more peaceful world.

you are on your way, kid. follow the path that you are on now, but remember to bring your machete, because sometimes that path needs clearing.. ya dig?

great idea for a thread btw..