"Perfect State": Hybrid Weed Strains:)by rick

[Jacky Treehorn]

Hay GMT,,,,im glad you like the new thread,,,,,expanding our minds through speach via Lateral Transfer ,,,,you likei me loci? eh?,,,i love you man......i feel like im sat next to you in weed uni,,shame we cant blaze-up together at brake time...would be fun

vertical transfer occurs when an organism receives genetic material from its ancestor,,,,as with our classic regular BackCross or with my "Reverced Backcross" idea...........do you agree with this?

are you sayin afghani x haze ibl is a true Outcross?.....if you say YES it is a true outcross,,,,shurly it is very similar if not the same as Lateral Transfer?

what makes you think multicellular plants are not subject to Lateral Transfer ?

sendin my transfer NOW!!:0

A true IBL Afghani x with a true haze IBL is an outcross. This is still simply vertical transfer because it is done using sexual reproduction. This is not to say that you cannot do lateral gene transfer with these two IBLs....BUT you would have to do it using biological engineering (non sexual means) by splicing and inserting the traits on a biological vector. So what I am trying to say is that by all intensive purposes afghani x haze ibl is outcrossing, but it is NOT lateral gene transfer. Hope that helps!

Angiosperms or other multicellular plants may do natural lateral gene transfer using bacterial and viral means, but I am completely unaware of a way to quantify that or do it in any controllable way. If it happened naturally you would never even know it.

 

[englishrick]

please explain how you can call Afghan IBL x Haze IBL an outcross.... yet you say its nothing to do with lateral gene transfer?.....it makes no sence bro




If lateral gene transfer is nothing to do with weedplants,,,,,,,,,individual weedplant gene`s should have the same topology,,,,,,,,, the ancestral genes at the root of each tree would have all been present in the last universal common ancestor,,,..... but extensive transfer means that neither is the case,,,,,,,,, gene trees will differ "although many will have regions of similar topology",

i propose "gene trees" start to become compleetly different, simply when they are removed from the ancestor line, into a localized population,,,,

i think once 2 "gene trees" are created and then directed differently,,,,,,the 2 lines are now different enough to invoke lateral gene transfer


do all you guys dissagree?

 

[englishrick]

sounds very very interessting to me but i dont really understand what you are actually trying to do -


are you trying to creat a f1 generation that carries the genetical information of the parents so you got a perfekt IBL even out of hybrids? - or are you trying to combine the genetics of two diffrent parents which you actually choose? (simply said for example: you want the haze high in a 45 days plant ... (i know this is a bad example)) ...

lol...very bad example if you ask me bro.......but yeh,,,,you seem to have grasped the main point.......

the 2 parents used in the creation of the "F1" will be picked acording to genetic matching,,,,,i am hoping to create seeds with the exact sequence of alleles i wish it to posess,,,,thus creating a "PERFECT STATE"

if you are trying to modify the genes of the plant - how you going to do it?
ive read about the possibility of shooting microscopical pieces of gold with dead virus on it, which contains the isolated characteristics of the modification which is wanted, into the cell itself ...?
if you are trying to do something like that than you must have some serious lab!

sorry - i have to do some serious reading for understanding everything i guess!

why would i need to use all that stuff you talk about, when the traits i want to incorperate are allready in the cannabis kingdom......all i have to do is isolate the sequence of alleles in a carrier...... then all i do is outcross and identifi the sequence again.....

i believe this type of outcrossing is similar to Breeding with AutoFlowering Plants,,,

 

[exploziv]

I can see where you try to go...

So we take:
- strain 1, IBL
- strain 2, IBL

Now you say we take the best phenotype, which has the caracteristics we need. But those plants beeing IBL, should not present too much variation.

Let's say we find that phenotype, starting for an IBL or maybe a F1 (??) and that we find multiple plants carrying that pheno for each of the 2 strains. We interbreed them till we got a stable line for each of the strains (name them 1a and 2a).

Now we breed 1a x 2a and we'll get a F1 generation from which we sellect those plants with the best mix of the parents caracteristics.

Is this what you are talking about?
Your plan may be good, I'm no expert but I would say you need a great lab to do more than vertical gene transfer.

If I did not understood your plan maybe you can explain exactly how would you breed the plants.

 

[Jacky Treehorn]

please explain how you can call Afghan IBL x Haze IBL an outcross.... yet you say its nothing to do with lateral gene transfer?.....it makes no sence bro




If lateral gene transfer is nothing to do with weedplants,,,,,,,,,individual weedplant gene`s should have the same topology,,,,,,,,, the ancestral genes at the root of each tree would have all been present in the last universal common ancestor,,,..... but extensive transfer means that neither is the case,,,,,,,,, gene trees will differ "although many will have regions of similar topology",

i propose "gene trees" start to become compleetly different, simply when they are removed from the ancestor line, into a localized population,,,,

i think once 2 "gene trees" are created and then directed differently,,,,,,the 2 lines are now different enough to invoke lateral gene transfer


do all you guys dissagree?

I don't think you are grasping the concept of "lateral gene transfer" and "outcrossing".

Outcrossing is simply breeding two unrelated breeding lines. If you take an Afghani IBL, it is a stable variety that has it's own inbred breeding line. Then if you breed that Afghani IBL with a Haze IBL (which is its own unrelated breeding line), then you have performed an outcross. It is the opposite of inbreeding. Gene transfer takes place via sexual reproduction. This IS vertical gene transfer. This is how breeders have been breeding for years and years.

Keeping this in mind, Lateral Gene transfer is a term specifically reserved for gene transfer using NON-sexual means. This means that in order to do lateral (or direct) gene transfer , you are going to have to do it using scientific lab equipment.

You can't begin to talk about selecting alleles unless you do a genetic analysis which requires scientific equipment.

What you are talking about is selective breeding. You are performing crosses, and selecting for the traits you want. You can get desired results and achieve what you want, but this is different from lateral gene transfer because it uses sexual reproduction.

 

[englishrick]

forgive me for this....

is it still classed as "sexual means" when everything is in XX chromozone,,an high % of alleles are homogeneous & heterozygote?......

when is that gona happen just by sexual repoduction?.....its too random!!....

but by using Selfing on my weedplants ,,and a incorperating Byzantine protocol into the prosess... results will stabalize....."hence the carrier"

 

[GMT]

vertical transfer occurs when an organism receives genetic material from its ancestor,,,,as with our classic regular BackCross or with my "Reverced Backcross" idea...........do you agree with this?
are you sayin afghani x haze ibl is a true Outcross?.....if you say YES it is a true outcross,,,,shurly it is very similar if not the same as Lateral Transfer?
what makes you think multicellular plants are not subject to Lateral Transfer ?
sendin my transfer NOW!!:0

1) Yes.
2) An Afghani crossed to a Haze is an outcross. An AfghanixHaze F1 which is then IBLed (Inbred Backcrossed Line) or ILed (Inbred Line) would be an incross. Which would be an example of vertical gene transference subject to gene transference being present (which would not always be the case). Certain genes may dissapear due to random genes being passed on at the point of reproduction and the selection of future parent (whether evolutionary selections, or hand chosen selections). Certain genes may mutate (due to random mutations or environmental factors). An example of the gene that would dissapear being the male sex gene in feminisation or selfing.
3) Lateral transfer is when genetic material from one cell is passed onto another cell near to it, to be present in multicellular specimins, that horizontal tranfer would have to take place throughout the entire structure of the specimin one cell at a time. The process would need to take place extremely quickly and reliably. Horizontal transfer, at first glance, (remember that I only looked into this today), appears to be an unreliable process. And observations within the world allows yellow roses to grow next to red roses etc without one turning into the other. Which if horizontal transfer was widespread could not happen. If it happened in the animal world then living with someone with blue eyes for example (if you had brown eyes) could cause one of you to switch eye colours. The list of examples is endless, yet I have not heard of one case where any of them have happened. When looking the subject up on the net, the references I found only talked about single cell species and examples bacteria where once the changes were made there was no "back up" dna to refer to to correct the situation.

 

[GMT]

If lateral gene transfer is nothing to do with weedplants,,,,,,,,,individual weedplant gene`s should have the same topology,,,,,,,,, the ancestral genes at the root of each tree would have all been present in the last universal common ancestor,,,..... but extensive transfer means that neither is the case,,,,,,,,, gene trees will differ "although many will have regions of similar topology",

i propose "gene trees" start to become compleetly different, simply when they are removed from the ancestor line, into a localized population,,,,

i think once 2 "gene trees" are created and then directed differently,,,,,,the 2 lines are now different enough to invoke lateral gene transfer


do all you guys dissagree?

As far as I am aware, the topology for all cannabis plants are identical.
As for the genes at the root of each tree being identical to the last common ancestor, if that were the case then that generation would not be forming a new tree, but rather another layer of trunk. For a new evolutionary branch on the tree or subtree to form, the genes must in some way mutate and be successfull in breeding a healthy population. Therefore to say that every new tree (which is normally called a branch) must posses the genes of the last common ancestor would not be correct. The differences occur when the mutations occur not necessarily when separation from the hurd occurs.
To be honest and not to be cruel, you are misusing the term lateral gene transfer.

 

[GMT]

forgive me for this....

is it still classed as "sexual means" when everything is in XX chromozone,,an high % of alleles are homogeneous & heterozygote?......

when is that gona happen just by sexual repoduction?.....its too random!!....

but by using Selfing on my weedplants ,,and a incorperating Byzantine protocol into the prosess... results will stabalize....."hence the carrier"

Yes.
When you use chemical stressing techniques to produce male pollen and use it to impregnate the female.

Can you explain how you plan to use byzantine protocols in a plant breeding program given that :

The Byzantine Agreement protocol is a protocol in distributed computing. It takes its name from a problem formulated by Lamport, Shostak and Pease in 1982[2], which itself is a reference to a historical problem. We give a brief summary here. The Byzantine was divided into divisions with each division being led by a General with the following properties:

• Each General is either loyal or a traitor to the Byzantine state.
• All Generals communicate by sending and receiving messages.
• There are only two commands: attack and retreat.
• All loyal Generals should agree on the same plan of action retreat or attack.
• A small linear fraction of bad Generals should not cause the protocol to fail (less than a
  
  fraction).

(See [3] for the proof of the impossibility result). The problem usually is equivalently restated in the form of a commanding General and loyal Lieutenants with the General being either loyal or a traitor and the same for the Lieutenants with the following properties.

• All loyal Lieutenants carry out the same order.
• If the commanding General is loyal, all loyal Lieutenants obey the order that he sends.
• A strictly less than
  
  fraction including the commanding General are traitors.

 

[guineapig]

There needs to be an International Institute for Cannabis Genetics to address these questions.....

Honestly, we know much more about the way animal cells function than the way plant cells function.....hopefully one day the science will be more developed and we can understand certain aspects of the cannabis plant, especially the genetic foundation of the cannabinoid profile (i.e. which genes control for cannabinoid content).....

kind regards from guineapig

 

[Chimera]

Rick,
I really don't wanted to be rude man but you talk alot about things you have absolutely no clue about.

Maybe reading more and posting less would help you out?

There was a guy named strawdog that used to post on OG and your posts are very similar.... wanting to teach but not wanting to do the required reading to inform yourself FIRST.

Lateral gene transfer involves NO BREEDING, NO SEXUAL REPRODUCTION. The lateral essentially refers to across the SAME generation... from one sibling to another... one individual to another without sex (up or down being previous or future generations via sexual recombination).


ER "i propose "gene trees" start to become compleetly different, simply when they are removed from the ancestor line, into a localized population,,,,

i think once 2 "gene trees" are created and then directed differently,,,,,,the 2 lines are now different enough to invoke lateral gene transfer"


Uh... wha? WTF are you smoking man, this doesn't even make sense.

-Chimera

 

[Forest20]

I blast from the past guineapig

 

[Chimera]

Cannabis is an outcrosser. Selfing outcrossing plants leads to inbreeding depression.

Genetic homogeneity (homozygosity) in cannabis is not only UNNATURAL, it is unhealthy for the population. EVERY cannabis line has genetic weakness (non-functional alleles), selfing fixes these traits. Vigourous Cannabis is always the result of heterosis.

Try understanding these terms.. it will help you understand the overall picture... you are getting WAY ahead of yourself with complex concepts, and you don't even understand the basics yet.

Please consider. I hope you can take this as constructive... right now I feel that you are causing more confusion on this forum that providing clarification.

-Chimera

PS- QTL's are far beyond your current comprehension. Go back to basics and build your knowledge from the bottom up.

 

[Gert Lush]

Chimera is quite right, englishrick, and he isn't even being rude, really.

You post so much stuff that makes it apparent you don't even have the most basic grasp of Mendelian genetics, never mind anything else. You really need to sit down with a good basic biology book.

Your enthusiasm is admirable, but honestly, without a grasp of the essentials at least, it will remain pure enthusiasm, i.e. totally devoid of any practical side to it.

 

[endlesssummer]

yeah.. you must be smoking some bomb shit.. that's all I've gotta say

 

[englishrick]

allright,,,,il stay quiet

 

[Forest20]

No that is not the point... to some people on this thread may or may not think of me kindly...,but just enjoy the ride. In what lifetime will you every be talking to the "Creators" of "Lines".

 

[Chimera]

For the record, I did see that Rick... pre-Edit.

Ya can't fool those that actually know!

Maybe you'd care to elaborate on your deleted post... in your own words of course, and outline how 'your ideas' are supported by a cut n' paste of an abstract of someone else's research?

Many, many thanks...
-Chimera

 

[englishrick]

i put it on the other thread,,,,i just like that thread better

 

[englishrick]

your assuming im a right nob chimera?,,,,this is offencive,,an nasty