Chloramine and Organics

[bostrom155]

Hello everyone, i just read this thread http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=123637 and naturally checked my city drinking water quality report which showed that chloramides are being used. I have been using organics for about 6 months, guess i was just wasting my money. any thoughts on people with the chloramide and organics?

 

[maryjohn]

how do your plants look?

 

[bostrom155]

Well they seem to be doing ok, my clones branches are a little thinner than i expected, very skinny, but this could be caused by somthing else. but checking into it i found this:

How about using chloraminated water on ornamental plants, vegetables, fruit or nut trees? Is beneficial bacteria be harmed?

The small amount of chloramine should have no effect on plants of any type. Beneficial bacteria generally will be protected by the soil in which they live. Chloramine is removed by the high chlorine demand in the soil.

Information provided by the American Water Works Association Research Foundation.

 

[MrBaker]

I use Dechlor from the pet store (cue in the beat). It supposedly removes chloramine, and I believe it. Plants look healthy and tea cooks properly using Dechlor'd water.

It's like 2 bucks for a bottle that should last months.

 

[habeeb]

this is how you get rid of chloramines, as I did it myself just a week ago, and went through many many test strips that detect chloramine and got ones for ammonia..

take a filter bag, pantyhose, or whatever to hold carbon and zeolite, go buy some carbon and zeolite from a pet store or aquarium place. place the stuff in a bag, I used a long bag ( think like a sock ) then got a small pump, get the right size tubing and suspend your bag of zeolite and carbon above a 5 gallon bucket. take the tubing and place the start of it in the carbon / zeolite so it holds and then the water is running down the stuff. run for about 4+ hours to remove the chloramine ( chlorine and ammonia bond ). that's it. I have a pic I'll put up that best shows you what I'm talking about later as I'm late

 

[bostrom155]

Habeeb thats a great idea, thinking of rigging something up similar. I just read that it even gets through an RO system

 

[habeeb]

^ I have read this, I don't have a RO machine yet, so I cannot confirm that, and the lack of information involving chloramines and RO systems here we might not know for a long time...

but, yes my method works. I'm assuming it's because it will break it down after hours, the ammonia will take longer to get rid of, I guess zeolite works slow.. so make sure you do it overnight to make sure all ammonia is out

good luck, there is many ways to rig this carbon and zeolite so have at it and good luck with the chloramine, also good if you have dogs and don't want them to get shit water..

 

[bakelite]

I've been using Topfin tapwater dechlorinator. It is meant for aquariums. It removes chloramine as well as chlorine. Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is supposed to remove chloramines as well. I had also read that citric acid will do the same, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of info out there it. That would be key as I use citric acid to lower the pH of my tap water.
-bakelite

 

[habeeb]

^ I have used vitamin C also, has worked, but I know nothing about ascorbic acid as I don't think the vitamin C people are taking is "organic". I know rose hips have vitamin C

once, again no clue on Vitamin C so if someone could fill in the blank there, and I chose to use a method that seemed safer to me (using carbon and zeolite ) and having nature filter out "man's water"

 

[puffin fresh]

I know that technically chlorine/chloramines are not considered organic although they are actually found in nature.

source: http://www.eurochlor.org/nature
Chlorine in nature

10/2008

Chlorine is a highly reactive element which practically does not exist by itself in nature, but only in combination with other elements. In some rare situations, such as in human tears, chlorine as such can be detected.

It is one of the most common elements in nature, where it is even more plentiful than carbon. Key natural sources of organochlorines are the oceans, forest fires and fungal activity.
Surprising sources
Waves
Common salt in sea water is the natural source of vast quantities of chlorine compounds.

Natural organochlorines are produced as a result of natural chlorinated substances reacting with organic material in the environment. They have some surprising sources and properties: a Chinese folk medicine plant contains five natural organochlorine compounds; an Ecuadorian tree frog produces a chlorinated alkaloid, with pain-killing properties several hundred times more powerful than morphine; a natural organochlorine antibiotic, vancomycin, is a key defence against hospital Staphylococcus infections; and some natural organochlorinated products exhibit potent antibacterial and anticancer properties.

I am only speaking from a non-organic perspective (dm gold atm) when I say it has no considerable effect on the growth of my plants, however I do use Biocanna range in veg sometimes with standard tap water and haven't noticed any problems with doing so, I still get plenty of microbial activity in my soiless mix. To further this thought products like Pythof and some other sterilisation products are chlorine/chloramine based so one could presume that some of the scientists that work at companies like flairform who have done extensive research would not sell it if it was detrimental to the plants. Up until a few months ago I was for a while using a 3ft carbon filter with paper and cloth before it and a 10" zeolite after followed by UV after the pump, however it was too much hassle and I noticed less of a difference from all of that then I did from lowering my EC with RO. Sorry for the rant it is only one persons opinion.

EDIT - I am a big fan of UV sterilisation in non organic systems and do like to run a venturi sucking from an ozone generator to recycle my nutrients versus air pumps. When not using ozonated water I swear by pythof to guard against fungal/root problems. Damn im off topic aren't I.....

 

[ParanoidFarmer]

On a water quality report, would Chlorine encompass chloramines as well? Or would it be listed separate?

 

[bostrom155]

No it will not encompass it. Mine is on the same line on the water report chart. Where on my citys report it says:
Chloramines and Chlorine (ppm) 1/07-12/07 N 3.4 0.0–5.0 N/A MRDL= 4 Water additive used to control microbes.
You need to call or check around to find which one it is. one or the other from what i'm reading, sometimes they will do a chlorine "flush" for a month then revert back to chloramide

 

[bostrom155]

Hey Puffin, thanks for the input. Just wondering how I can test for activity aswell.

I still get plenty of microbial activity in my soiless mix.

My mix is LC1 using mushroom comp instead of EWC. And for ferts i use PBP grow and bloom, however i'm doing a trial run of LC1 mix and Epsoma PlantTone at a 25 to 1 ratio. Also brew tea using EWC, mollases and Liquid seaweed. But i'm guessing all the tea was for not. I dont know

 

[bakelite]

On a water quality report, would Chlorine encompass chloramines as well? Or would it be listed separate?

My local water quality info has it listed at "Chloramine Residual (mg/L)" and no mention of Chlorine. Maybe its not standardized?

 

[vonforne]

Bostrom155 when did you get back? LOL That was a 2 year move.

Welcome back.

V

 

[maryjohn]

yay! we have no chloramines here!

 

[bostrom155]

Bostrom155 when did you get back? LOL That was a 2 year move.

Welcome back.

V

wow what a great memory!!!!!

Thank You V, yep 2 years of not growing, it sucked, but fianally got a place to grow again.. good to see ya again

 

[puffin fresh]

Hey Puffin, thanks for the input. Just wondering how I can test for activity aswell.

I just look at my soil, I could be wrong but everything I run with organics and I get some green color on the surface of my soil which indicates to me I have activity which hasn't been destroyed. Someone correct me if i'm wrong please!

My mix is LC1 using mushroom comp instead of EWC. And for ferts i use PBP grow and bloom, however i'm doing a trial run of LC1 mix and Epsoma PlantTone at a 25 to 1 ratio. Also brew tea using EWC, mollases and Liquid seaweed. But i'm guessing all the tea was for not. I dont know

This is the best post I read from that other thread and explains things well and I presume if chloramines are destroying some of my microbes and organics that it is reacting with such a small amount of it thaat there is planty left for the plants.

Chloramine are usually discussed in the water purification industry as a plural because the specific form is affected by both the PH and mineral content of the water being treated.

Activated charcoal is used in the saltwater aquarium paradigm and if you purchase your charcoal correctly, it's very inexpensive. Buying activated charcoal in an aquarium shop will run you a couple of dollars per lb. but buying a 50-lb. bag of activated charcoal through your local 'orchid growers society' (and they're everywhere) will get you the same product for $.45 per lb - about $22.00 per 50-lb. bag.

If you're brewing up 'aerated compost teas' what is often done is to take a small amount of your compost or earthworm castings (about 1/4 cup) and drop that into the water with your aerator on and working, then the organic material in the compost will convert the chloramines in the water sample to chlorine which will be aerated out as normal.

I'm curious though about the original poster's premise I'm wondering why it is that the plants in Golden State Park in downtown are alive and thriving? Same with Nob Hill district and or any of the streets full of homes that have the obligatory tree planted by the city decades and decades ago out by the curb - is 'dead tree removal' the new job for the new era?

Just curious as usual.

CC

Like all you i'm always learning but from simple observation of my plants I would say that my mix's are fine.

 

[CT Guy]

I'd say not to worry about it for watering, it's only a real issue when used to make compost teas or to dilute the teas with. As long as you're growing in soil, the organic matter in the soil will tie up the small amount so chloramine without negligible microbial loss.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

CT Guy

I checked the web page for our local water district (as it's called) and they have a 6-page PDF explaining the water source (Clackamas River) as well as the various levels.

Chlorine is less than 1 ppm which is well below the EPA's 4 ppm. There was no mention of Chloramine but there are other agents used for purificaiton: Haloacetic Acid & Trihalomethane

The Clackamas River watershed covers 1,000 sq. miles and is sourced from the Cascade Mountains.

That's all that they had regarding chlorine.

CC