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Wanna Ask The Old Farts A Question?
- Thread starter HempKat
- Start date
A 600 best covers an area of 3x3. For 4x8 I would go with two 1000 watters. Even better, grow with three 600's. Or you could do whatever you please. 
Your grow is only as good as your weakest link. Such extreme light intensities will only make the difference if all of the other proverbial ducks are in a row. IE: Temperature, humidity, airflow, CO2, nutrients, ETC!
Your grow is only as good as your weakest link. Such extreme light intensities will only make the difference if all of the other proverbial ducks are in a row. IE: Temperature, humidity, airflow, CO2, nutrients, ETC!
I personally would go with the 1000W on a track. The two stationary 600W still wouldn't quite cover the area where as a 1000W on a track would, both length and width wise. Now that's based on the options you gave. Actually if it were me it would be two stationary 1000W as I do have two 1000W and I don't have a track. I should also add that I've never had a track so I'm really kind of clueless as to just how effective they are. I figure they must work pretty good though because alot of growers use them and have used them for years.
Anyway I did do the 2 fixed 1000W lights for a 4' x 8' x 8' space and they worked good but temps ran hot. I could only consider doing it in the winter when I can pipe in some cold air to help keep temps in check. Now as st0ne said, that's extreme lighting and it's only going to work good for you if everything else is tight. Using CO2 would be a good idea as it would allow you to run the hotter temps with less problems. However unless you're a commercial grower CO2 is really not worth it in my opinion. Normal CO2 levels associated with a good exchange rate of air for ventilation have always been fine for me.
I want you to consider this. Just because you have 4' x 8' of space doesn't mean you have to use all of it to get good yields. A big 4 or 5 foot bush might look impressive up top but be wasted space below. In the same room where I did the grow using 2 1000W lights I now use just one 1000W light hung over a 4' x 2' table. On that table sits 6 rows of 11 plants in 1.5 liter pots filled with clones and flowered ala SoG or Sea of Green style. Using half the light, only about one fourth the soil and fertalizers, I get similar yields. Plus by limiting it to that 4' x 2' space of the table I now have use of the rest of the room which makes things easier to manage.
One final thought you say you ran the 600W in a 4' x 4' tent and got better growth then you did in the 4' x 8' tent? How long would you say you ran the 4' x 4' tent? Did you use the same bulb? HID bulbs have a pretty good lifespan but their efficiency in putting out light energy drops pretty steeply after a much shorter period. If you run a back to back year to year operation I'd say bulbs should be replaced yearly for optimal performance. The average closet grower could probably push 2 maybe 3 years and be okay depending on expectations.
Great input. This is the 3rd grow on these bulbs, MH & HPS so I figured I have some grow left in them. I have co2, good nuts and good air flow and circulation. My plants look good they just don't take up as much water, oh yeah soil grow, and they didn't get as big. I know the reason 1 light twice as much area. So it looks like 1000W will be in order. I did have a fungas nat problem though and they may have hurt the roots.
Thanks
Thanks
Question
Question
Does any1 know if water cureing can be used to salvage plants with bud rot?
I have eight plants that suffered prety heavy bud rot from a few days of heavy rain about 2 weeks before harvest.
I harvested the plants today 10 days early and
i would be thrilled if i can get something out of them
i can smoke. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Question
Does any1 know if water cureing can be used to salvage plants with bud rot?
I have eight plants that suffered prety heavy bud rot from a few days of heavy rain about 2 weeks before harvest.
I harvested the plants today 10 days early and
i would be thrilled if i can get something out of them
i can smoke. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
Yeah fungas gnats do feed on roots, at least in the larva stage. That could fit with them not taking up as much water but then again lots of things could account for that. Fungas gnats usually don't do significant damage unless you're badly infested with them. If they were a different strain, if they weren't vegged as long, if their diet was different the the better yielding time. These all could account for differences in root developement which will determine ultimately how much a plant can take up.
I don't think it automatically follows that the bigger tent for the same light is why it was less. At least not how well the light covers the plants, the track should have made up for the bigger space. Now you say it was mainly that it took up less water. If you have a 600W in a 4 x 4 space the heat from the light is going to make the plants go thru a certain amount of water coping with that heat. Now if you don't change anything else but double the room size. It's going to take longer for that room to heat up and probably not reach as high of a tempurature. Also on a track that light isn't staying in a fixed position so the heat the plants feel directly from the light will be less. So it may be that the bigger tent kept the heat lower and therefore the plants drank less.
I've heard it said that it can but have never tried it myself. Bud rot is pretty serious business. If you inhale the fungus and mold causing the rot it can do serious damage to your lungs. If I had bud rot, especially if it was bad, my first choice would be to get rid of any of the affected bud. Now if that meant nothing was going to be left and I was going to be without then rather then trying a water cure I'd be more inclined to do an ISO wash and make ISO hash.
To do that you get some isopropyl alcohol (the higher the percentage of alcohol the better). You put the plant material to be washed into a jar or container and fill that jar or container with the alcohol until the plant material is covered. Let it sit for about 15-20 seconds and the dump the jar or container thru a screen or coffee filter (to filter out unwanted plant material) and into a glass pan. The alcohol is a solvent that kind of melts the resin off the plant. when you dump the alcohol thru the screen the resin in it's liquified form pours out with the alcohol into the glass pan. Alcohol evaporates quickly and leaves almost no residue. The end result being that when the alcohol evaporates away you are left with the resin which will resolidify into thin coating across the bottom of the glass pan. It'll be such when it's dry that you'll need a razor blade to scrape it out.
Now that's just a quick overview of making ISO hash, if you're interested in trying it and you'r not familiar with it. I'd recommend that you look for a thread discussing how to make ISO hash. I've only made ISO a couple of times and my lungs can't handle hash like they used to. So I'm no expert and I may be leaving some things out.
Thanks HempKat. My light is vented seperatly from the tent so the temp is fairly constant. Your right there are many variables at work. Next grow I will try to refine things a little more. I also used a little different nutrient regime this time. Maybe after 60 more grows I'll be getting closer to perfection, well half way there.
This is an amazing thread. I wish more people were like you HK. My FoaF has a question for you as well, but before that I get to that I wanted to add a little something concerning the ISO hash. It's a small tip that was picked up from a forum somewhere.
Like you said, use the highest percentage iso percentage that you can find. If you get to wally world on the right day, you can find 91% - the highest grade that can be gotten anonymously (any grade iso will work for the same results). Now while you're around the pharm isle at store grab some Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate - it's a laxative and the stuff my mom used to put in the bath when i got poison ivy). Don't forget to grab some coffee filters.
Whatcha do is take the ISO and the epsom, i'd a 5:1 (5 parts iso, 1 part salt) ratio in a closed container and give it a good shake. Pour it through the coffee filter into another container - throw the filtered salts out. Sitting in your container is now almost 100% iso. The Epsom salts work as a desiccant drawing the little amount of H20 that is diluting the 91% solution. This helps the ISO wash of the bud evaporate quicker, with less impurities from the wash itself, so your not ingesting anything that could harm you - left over alcohol.
Now to my few:
Just recently (<7 days) A foaf put some bagseed in the dirt right outside of his house. A couple of them poped, and are about 1/4" about the dirt right now. He wants to move them into the woods behind his house. He has a season under his belt, but that was indoors. There is a non-descript small clearing that gets sun all day, but sometimes it rains for days on end, He doesn't know if he should worry about bud rot, mildew or other fungi. Should he worry? He was thinking about LST'n the plants so they don't grow tall (outa sight outa mind), should he take any special precautions? He's also very concerned about smell, will the proximity to the ground help with that?
He also was wondering about some beans from that one season under the belt. He had a couple strains WW being one that crossed with some badseed that hermie'd. Will those beans still have the same intensity as the original WW? If he was to let them hermie or germ with the bagseed mentioned above, would the overall yield suffer more than say 50% from the actual seeding? He remembers getting some very seeded bud (shwag). Do you think he should let them germ for next season. Would the quality of the bud drop because of germ even if the plants were fed properly. (nutes+outdoor=confusion)
Sorry for such gabbery, wanted to make sure all the info you needed was int here.
Like you said, use the highest percentage iso percentage that you can find. If you get to wally world on the right day, you can find 91% - the highest grade that can be gotten anonymously (any grade iso will work for the same results). Now while you're around the pharm isle at store grab some Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate - it's a laxative and the stuff my mom used to put in the bath when i got poison ivy). Don't forget to grab some coffee filters.
Whatcha do is take the ISO and the epsom, i'd a 5:1 (5 parts iso, 1 part salt) ratio in a closed container and give it a good shake. Pour it through the coffee filter into another container - throw the filtered salts out. Sitting in your container is now almost 100% iso. The Epsom salts work as a desiccant drawing the little amount of H20 that is diluting the 91% solution. This helps the ISO wash of the bud evaporate quicker, with less impurities from the wash itself, so your not ingesting anything that could harm you - left over alcohol.
Now to my few:
Just recently (<7 days) A foaf put some bagseed in the dirt right outside of his house. A couple of them poped, and are about 1/4" about the dirt right now. He wants to move them into the woods behind his house. He has a season under his belt, but that was indoors. There is a non-descript small clearing that gets sun all day, but sometimes it rains for days on end, He doesn't know if he should worry about bud rot, mildew or other fungi. Should he worry? He was thinking about LST'n the plants so they don't grow tall (outa sight outa mind), should he take any special precautions? He's also very concerned about smell, will the proximity to the ground help with that?
He also was wondering about some beans from that one season under the belt. He had a couple strains WW being one that crossed with some badseed that hermie'd. Will those beans still have the same intensity as the original WW? If he was to let them hermie or germ with the bagseed mentioned above, would the overall yield suffer more than say 50% from the actual seeding? He remembers getting some very seeded bud (shwag). Do you think he should let them germ for next season. Would the quality of the bud drop because of germ even if the plants were fed properly. (nutes+outdoor=confusion)
Sorry for such gabbery, wanted to make sure all the info you needed was int here.
FYI. You can ask any pharmacy ( I have used Costco and Wally) to order you a bottle or more of 99% or 100% iso with no problem. About $3 each.Then there is no need for epson salt. You have faster drying no h2o. You can also go to a good liquor store and get Everclear or any other brand of pure alcohol, 200 proof. Much more expensive but no harmful addatives.
dreadvik
Active member
Thank you for the advice Hempkat. I did the iso wash with 91%iso from cvs and I am waiting for it to evaporate. It looks prety good real bright green. heres a couple pics.
That looks nice! I saw a bottle of ISO on a neighbours wall(free for takers) a while back and really wishing I'd took it now. Still hopefully I will find some decent ISO gas to use my honey bee extractor with again soon
Thank you for the advice Hempkat. I did the iso wash with 91%iso from cvs and I am waiting for it to evaporate. It looks prety good real bright green. heres a couple pics.
Looks pretty much like it's supposed to
You can speed up the evaporation process by placing a fan such that it blows across the surface of it. Even without the fan it shouldn't take more then 2 or 3 days to dry.If you've never smoked iso before when you apply heat to it the iso will met into a gooey hash oil like substance. Because of this it's best smoked on top of something (even if it's just ashes) so it melts into that rather then thru your pipe's screen.
Thanks for the tip on the epsom salts, I never thought of that but it makes sense.
Now as for that FofaF he sure has alot of questions.
1) Yeah if you're getting rain for days on end then bud rott will be a possible threat especially if this spot is such that winds pass over it more then thru it, excess moisture and poor air circulation = bud rott. If they are LST'ed, which is a good idea for stealth, that will also keep it low to the ground which will decrease exposure to wind. If this area is prone to conditions for mold and mildew I don't think I'd want to do any sort of training to it.
2) LST is a good practice both for stealth and improving yields however, I wouldn't personally reccommend it in a guerilla environment. Reason being that all the string training the branches is more likely to draw attention to it, from anyone that might happen to stoll thru this area. Even though someone knows what a marijuana plant looks like, in a place full of plants a marijuana plant looks like just one of the many plants around and may go unnoticed (can't see the forest because the trees are in the way kind of thing). A marijuana plant that's all bent over and that looks like spiderman got jiggy with it is much more likely to stand out.
3) Smell should only be an issue for about 100 yards and then for most of that distance it would require a strong breeze. Beyond 100 yards the odor should have dissipated enough to not be noticeable. The lower things are to the ground the less in the wind they are and therefore less like to have it's scent carried very far. That being said, it's all about the angle the wind is traveling in if it can get in there at a good enough angle it could carry the scent regardless of how low to the ground it is.
4) It's hard to say for sure which traits the seed will adopt from the parents. I could potentially end up being just like the WW, just like the bag seed or anywhere in between. There are only two things you can be certain about with those seeds. Being the result of hermies means no "true" male genetics were used to make it which means it's feminized and any viable seed from that should result in females. Unfortunately and this is the other thing you can count on, the hermie trait was passed on and therefore the plants from those seeds are as likely to go hermie as the one parent did.
5) If you let a plant just do it's thing and get pollenated then it'll likely be every bit as seedy as the bud you remember. If I were you I wouldn't even bother making seeds with any parents that hermied.
6) You're using the term "Germ" wrong. Germ is shot for germinate. Germinate is when you take a seed, expose it to water and encourage it to sprout. In the previous question it seemed like you used germ in place of pollinate. If you pollinate a crop your yield will suffer regardless of how well they're fed. For one thing once a plant is heavily pollinated it doesn't keep producing new flowers to get even more pollinated. Rather it takes all that energy it would have used to make flowers and pours it into making seeds The bud already there containing the seeds will have resin on them so you'll still get high but there won't be much left once you remove the seeds.
Thank you very much for the reply. I apologize for using the term incorrectly, i was trying to sound all smart n stuff and ended up eating my foot.
You've helped me better understand the dynamics of stealth outside, especially when it comes to the lst to the plant. I've LST's my mothers, and was impressed by the fact that the amount of clones nearly doubled every cutting.
I'm primarily a lurker around the forums here. There was a buildup of questions, orginally i was going to post two..... Thank you again for taking the time to answer my questions.
>>> sidenote about the iso thing, the more brown the solution is, the more concentrated the thc content - the more green, less pure contains many turpentines and other oils. of course potency>amount. I prefer a greener tinge too it, longer bang for the buck. longer, or more vigrous wash will get more green. quicker less vigerous wash gets more brown.
Gold, awesome that you can get 99% from a pharm, i didn't know that
You've helped me better understand the dynamics of stealth outside, especially when it comes to the lst to the plant. I've LST's my mothers, and was impressed by the fact that the amount of clones nearly doubled every cutting.
I'm primarily a lurker around the forums here. There was a buildup of questions, orginally i was going to post two....
. Thank you again for taking the time to answer my questions. >>> sidenote about the iso thing, the more brown the solution is, the more concentrated the thc content - the more green, less pure contains many turpentines and other oils. of course potency>amount. I prefer a greener tinge too it, longer bang for the buck. longer, or more vigrous wash will get more green. quicker less vigerous wash gets more brown.
Gold, awesome that you can get 99% from a pharm, i didn't know that
LilMan72003
Active member
Hey HempKat, really enjoy the thread, and I'm glad I finally have a question to ask you!
So here's the situation: started 5 plants indoors under CFLs and about 5 weeks into the vegetative cycle, I transplanted three of them outdoors (around April 10). They have all taken off and grown into nice bushes. Interestingly enough when I went to visit them this past weekend I noticed that the most vigorous plant had grown pollen sacks! One of the balls even had a bit of pollen in it when I crushed it.
None of the other plants have showed this autoflowering tendency, and with the flowering cycle many weeks away, I am slightly baffled.
Any thoughts? Thank you!
So here's the situation: started 5 plants indoors under CFLs and about 5 weeks into the vegetative cycle, I transplanted three of them outdoors (around April 10). They have all taken off and grown into nice bushes. Interestingly enough when I went to visit them this past weekend I noticed that the most vigorous plant had grown pollen sacks! One of the balls even had a bit of pollen in it when I crushed it.
None of the other plants have showed this autoflowering tendency, and with the flowering cycle many weeks away, I am slightly baffled.
Any thoughts? Thank you!
Well that post is a bit dated now, you'd probably be better off just asking me what you want to know.
In a nutshell over a month ago, close to two months now, PG went down. Supposedly Gad posted a message indicating a hardware failure and that due to timing (he was just getting ready to go on a 3 week vacation) It would be several weeks before it was back up. It never came back up and to the best of my knowledge no more word from Gad.
The PG membership split up between here, Opengrow and TCC although I don't think many came here. They've warn out their welcome at the other two places though being that they were used to being allowed to behave in ways neither site tolerates. this has led smokebreaks to create a new temporary home for PG members at www.myplanetganja.com. I haven't been there yet so I can't tell you much about it.
Now I said there was no more word from Gad but that may or may not be true. Someone claiming to be him did show up at Opengrow about a two weeks ago and claimed that while on holiday a partner he had (not Prawn) had stolen all the equipment that made up PG and some other sites (non canna related I think). Supposedly the police were brought in and how soon PG would be back up would depend on if they found this partner and could recover the equipment. If not then it would take longer to get PG up and running again (like several months). Thing is some people were leery and skeptical so they asked this Gad to prove himself by answering things they felt only Gad could answer and he never answered him. So most know believe that whole bit about the server being stolen was a lie and that wasn't the real Gad.
That's about all of the worthwhile info I can think of. The rest of it has been much like when Overgrow went down.
That's not unusual. First of all often times going from indoors to outdoors can be a bit confusing for the plants, and cause them to do wierd things like slip in flower and then revert back to veg. You probably had them on either 18/6 or 24/0 which is fine for veg indoors. Outdoors it never gets to a point of 18/6 or 24/0 except maybe near the north and south poles.
Now on top of that males have a tendency to grow taller and flower sooner then females. This is so they are in their prime and ready to go by the time the girls start becoming ready. It is a bit early yet for that though so what I think you have going on is a combination of the two things. The difference in light after the move triggered flowering in some or even all and the male being genetically predisposed to flowering early went ahead and began developing pollen.
The good news on this though is that if you don't want seeds that male identified himself way early so you can get him out of the picture (males don't produce anything worth smoking so they're only really good for pollen).
Thank you very much for the reply. I apologize for using the term incorrectly, i was trying to sound all smart n stuff and ended up eating my foot.
You've helped me better understand the dynamics of stealth outside, especially when it comes to the lst to the plant. I've LST's my mothers, and was impressed by the fact that the amount of clones nearly doubled every cutting.
I'm primarily a lurker around the forums here. There was a buildup of questions, orginally i was going to post two....
>>> sidenote about the iso thing, the more brown the solution is, the more concentrated the thc content - the more green, less pure contains many turpentines and other oils. of course potency>amount. I prefer a greener tinge too it, longer bang for the buck. longer, or more vigrous wash will get more green. quicker less vigerous wash gets more brown.
Gold, awesome that you can get 99% from a pharm, i didn't know that
Yeah LST is a good method and will increase the yield because more of the grow tips will get good light rather then just the ones near the top on a non LST plant. I'd love to try it outdoors someday if we ever legalize marijuana so I can grow outdoors without fearing the law.
