Round 1 - What genetics to drop?

[Random]

Four strains (seeds) are now in hand for a first timer. Ordering these things is NOT something that needs to happen again anytime soon. Let's hope some mums are found from these 45 seeds.

The tent is approx 80cm x 80 cm (32" x 32") with a 400 HPS with FFOF soil (with added Perlite & Worm Castings) & FF nutes. The question is how to proceed with the virgin grow? The inventory is as follows:

- 10 Critical Mass
- 10 AK-48
- 10 B52s
- 10 Ice
- 5 Mazar-i-Sharif

Limiting plant count is somewhat of a priority given the political environment in this area. But this is no time to suggest a DWC single plant scrog - that may be a great option once a stellar mum is found.

So given the footprint, light source, and genetics, how would you recommend the first round (ever) starts? Drop 2 of each? One of each? It seems a bit timid to only play with the freebies while leaving the favorites to sit on the sidelines. But there is no need to risk an entire strain just to try to find a good pheno on the first round.

Your advice would be appreciated.

Random

 

[robbiedublu]

You didn't say whether or not you have seperate areas for veg and flowering plants so i'm assuming you don't. I would go ahead and start 3 of each. Top them and take cuttings at 8-10 inches or so. When the cuttings root in a week or two, start the mom's flowering. In another few weeks as they start to show sex you can toss the males. You should end up with 9 or 10 females each with 3 or 4 main branches. Good luck!!

 

[Random]

A separate CFL veg cabinet 28cm x 60cm (11" x 24") is nearing completion. However, for round 1 the flower cab will be empty with the digital ballast capable of running MH or HPS. Both bulbs are purchased and will be available to use. But throwing 400 watts of MH at a few seedlings seems a bit extravagant so it'll be 2x13 6500K CFLs + 2x26 6500K CFLs in veg (78 watts total).

Thanks for the input. Do you have a suggestion for container size? 2 liter (1/2 gal) bags are available if needed. So are 16oz plastic cups. Suggestions?

 

[pinecone]

In your spot I would start 10 seeds with none of them being the MIS freebies. I'd veg them out until they sex and then make decisions from there depending on how many females you have. With a small number of females (<=6) I'd veg longer and with more females I'd be looking to flower pretty quickly (a soon as I had viable cuttings).

*I'm sort of assuming you want yeild as well as a chance at find a mom.

Pinecone

 

[pinecone]

Do you have a suggestion for container size? 2 liter (1/2 gal) bags are available if needed. So are 16oz plastic cups. Suggestions?

16oz cups are good for the first 3-4 weeks. You will probably be able to sex them after a month.

Pinecone

 

[Random]

Robbiedublu.

Great suggestions. While clones are needed to keep the genetics going (don't want to reveg), the number of plants between seedlings & clones is a bit of a concern. The clones should take root in about what? 10-14 days? Then flip to 12/12 & wait another 7-10 days to find the males? Is that about right?

Pinecone.

Thanks for helping out. From seed, is it best to let them show their sex naturally or do you suggestion flipping to 12/12 to force the reveal? Do you suggest taking clones a few weeks into veg before 12/12 or after the big reveal? I've read opinions from both sides of the aisle so it would be nice to settle on a plan of attack soon. Trying to avoid creating hermies due to beginner mistakes or high stress on the seedlings. This will all be academic by round 2 if a few vigorous mothers show themselves so they can be cloned.

 

[pinecone]

The clones should take root in about what? 10-14 days?

Clones typically root in about 14 days. Some strains and cuts are faster. Some are slower.

Thanks for helping out. From seed, is it best to let them show their sex naturally or do you suggestion flipping to 12/12 to force the reveal? Do you suggest taking clones a few weeks into veg before 12/12 or after the big reveal?

I personally have never flowered a plant before it showed its sex and every plant I've grown has shown its sex by 5 weeks from sprout. My approach here is partly a function the constraints of my environment. For most of my grows I had a cabinet that I would use for veg and flowering. The cap really only fit 5 3-gallon containers, so I would start a bunch of seeds and keep the plants in smaller containers (16oz cups for 3 weeks then 0.8 gallon containers for 2 weeks) until they sexed. I'd then flower out the females - and sometimes I would just flower out the best looking females.

If you read the treads of the 12/12 straight from seed guys you will notice that it typically takes them a couple of weeks to determine the sex of their plants. This is only a week or 2 sooner than you can typically determine the sex of a plant that has been under 18/6-24/0, but the plant that is vegged longer is going to produce a lot more. The 12/12 from seed guys make up for this by planting a lot of seeds and growing a larger number of small plants.

Anyway, in your case it is probably in your best interest to veg them a while. The reason I say is that you are going to have a limited number of female plants if you start 10 seeds. Say you have 6. You are going to be wasting light flowering out 3-week old plants. You would at least double your yield with another 3-weeks of veg time. Another advantage is that you are going to have better branches to take clones from if you wait until the plants sex to take cuts, thus increasing your chances at viable clones. Furthermore, as each of your cuts counts as a plant you can further minimize your plant count by waiting as you will only be taking cuts from females. Waiting will also give you a better idea of how each plant is going to do with your growing style (if you are trying to limit the number of plants you are going to be vegging your clones longer so to produce large plants).

Pinecone

 

[Random]

Pinecone. I really appreciate your advice. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Your recommendations seem very logical given the situation. Sorry, just saw Star Trek

To you or anyone reading this thread. There are two issues that surprisingly don't seem get much attention on this site. So this begs the question...

1. Easy question first, how many bags of FFOF need to be stocked? Let's assume a 66% portion of FFOF with the remaining 33% being Perlite & Earthworm Castings. Given a final container size of 2 gallons, how many 1.5 cu ft bags of FFOF need to be purchased?

2. How in a relatively densely populated urban or suburban area, can one dispose of unwanted materials (bags, males, stalks, etc.). I'm sure this is easy in the rural areas but how about the urban areas where people & cameras abound? Some have mentioned toilets or garbage disposals but that approach is not without it's risks, correct?

 

[pinecone]

Easy question first, how many bags of FFOF need to be stocked? Let's assume a 66% portion of FFOF with the remaining 33% being Perlite & Earthworm Castings. Given a final container size of 2 gallons, how many 1.5 cu ft bags of FFOF need to be purchased?

If you are going to start 10 seeds and use a max of 2-gallon containers (which is pretty small) you only need 1-2 bags.

As an aside you don't need to cut FFOF with perlite or add extra castings. I used to add perlite and dolomite lime to it, but then I realized it already has a ton of perlite and it already has oyster shells for Ca and PH buffering (it also has castings). I don't amend it anymore except for maybe mixing in some dry fertilizer when I transplant larger plants. If you have larger plants in 2-gallon pots you are probably better off running str8 OF as it will retain moisture better than OF cut by perlite. Even with str8 OF in such a small container you may find yourself needing to water daily depending on the size of the plants, relative humidity, and temperatures.

How in a relatively densely populated urban or suburban area, can one dispose of unwanted materials (bags, males, stalks, etc.). I'm sure this is easy in the rural areas but how about the urban areas where people & cameras abound? Some have mentioned toilets or garbage disposals but that approach is not without it's risks, correct?

There is a thread on this somewhere. Soil can be reused. Leaves will dry up and crumble allowing them to disposed of anywhere. You can chop stems up and throw them out with you coffee cups when you fill up at the gas station - ditto for roots. A guy with a small number of plants shouldn't have a disposal problem.

Pine

 

[Lt. Herb]

Maybe a tad late, but for your very first grow ever I'd recommend bagseed. Not for great weed, but for experience with stuff like sexing preflowers, cloning, training, fert regimens, watering frequencies ect. without having to risk your purchased genetics until you're relatively certain you can keep 'em alive. Especially since you don't wanna hafta order seeds again and doubly especially if you're gonna try to clone and keep a mum goin'. (Cloning is like riding a bike, utterly complicated until you actually get it to work yourself once).

Not trying to bust your balls or anything, so don't take it like that, I know exactly where you're coming from. It's nerve racking waiting on that package in the mail...will it have the green tape? will they know? Even more reason to have your ducks in a row and know what to expect before you start the seeds you paid for. There's a lot of knowledge you can pick up around here, but all of it will pale in comparison to what you will discover yourself the first time you take a female to harvest.

 

[pinecone]

but for your very first grow ever I'd recommend bagseed. Not for great weed, but for experience with stuff like sexing preflowers, cloning, training, fert regimens, watering frequencies ect. without having to risk your purchased genetics until you're relatively certain you can keep 'em alive.

Whether or not bagseed makes sense for a first grow really depends on the grower IMO. Lots of growers start out like stoners; not very organized with crappy setups, crappy soil, no background research and no real plan. Others start out with a book, HID lights, proper ventilation, good soil, and grow tents. The former is better off with bag seed, but the latter probably is not.

I had a great first grow and I've seen a lot of other people that did their research and were organized have a lot of success as well; this isn't rocket science. Of course I've also seen a lot of disasters. Usually the culprit is poor setup (too much heat, not enough light, ect).

Cloning is like riding a bike, utterly complicated until you actually get it to work yourself once.

Cloning is pretty easy IMO. Just read the sticky in this forum and followed the directions there. There isn't really much to fck up if you have the right materials (rapid rooters, a humidity dome, some fluoro light, and cloning gel).

Pinecone

 

[MtnKuSh]

grow two seeds from each strain..in Veg take two clones from each strain and lable..flower the orig seeds to see what plants/strains grow the best in your growroom<use the clones from that plant to start a mini forest of clones of your killer keeper pheno! goodluck

 

[MtnKuSh]

grow two seeds from each strain..in Veg take two clones from each strain and lable..flower the orig seeds to see what plants/strains grow the best in your growroom<use the clones from that plant to start a mini forest of clones of your killer keeper pheno! goodluck

veg them for 3 weeks under HPS from seed..then 12/12 at 3 weeks and you can nip your clones that day as well. man im bakeeddddddddddd