Marijuana At The Tipping Point

[Haps]

Yeah dude, he fooled me, into thinking things will begin to change. I still think so, but I am indeed a fool.
H

 

[funker]

Really? I wouldn't want to be long with them at all. They are basically just trying to skim money from people by being a taxation clearing house, no thanks I will pass and have our CFO and an independent CPA doing audits. Much cheaper, and safer, and less risk of important business info from getting shared with competitors. If that is how the company actually is supposed to earn revenue then they won't make much. People are already going to be pissed that they have to pay taxes, why would they want to pay more?

well the example wasn't being long vs. no position, it was being long vs. being short...

i think a big reason u dislike the company is that it isn't a not-for-profit, which is another ball of wax entirely...

any credit/debit card company like visa, mastercard or discover engage in very similar business practices...i think the revenue could be very large, they would probably get 1%-3% of the taxes collected and if the MMJ market is as big as everyone say it is then that is a lot of money.

a company such as MJNA, if it did have a contract with the state to collect taxes, would limit liabilities for dispensaries...people like yourself wouldn't have to worry about getting audited for paying taxes on medicine sold to people using the MJNA system, all the records would be centralized and the state would just deal with MJNA...

i'm also pretty sure that people won't mind paying taxes if that means they don't have to worry about going to jail...

i'd also like to reiterate that i don't think the stock is going to go to $100 or anything crazy, I think it could definitely go to $10 or $15 if they demonstrate annual earnings of $50M-$100M and become listed on the big board...regardless of my stock position i would just like to see the company be successful b/c it would really piss off the drug warriors and would highlight the business potential of pot...lots of people hate that pot could become somewhat commercialized but i'd rather deal with that than people going to jail any day...

now if they are still a pink sheets company a year from now and haven't dealt with their transparency issues then I will dump the stock but my original investment was under $500 so its not a huge deal...

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

i think a big reason u dislike the company is that it isn't a not-for-profit, which is another ball of wax entirely...

Nah I don't care about their corporate status. Really it doesn't mean shit. What I dislike is their fundraising strategy. It reminds me of many of the dotcoms, banks, ect that have gone belly up and fucked up the economy. You know what we could use some capital too. But instead of selling stock one lucky person will be able to get the last coveted spot on the California Cannabis Inc. board of directors as insurance for a loan which will be paid off at a 30% total interest over a 3 year period. Atleast our company offers real services for real patients.

any credit/debit card company like visa, mastercard or discover engage in very similar business practices...i think the revenue could be very large, they would probably get 1%-3% of the taxes collected and if the MMJ market is as big as everyone say it is then that is a lot of money.

And their company contributes what in terms of a physical product to the economy? Nothing, they as a company are just trying to skim extra money off the top. Fuck that bullshit. Grow, Sell, Smoke we don't need any extra hands in the product line.

a company such as MJNA, if it did have a contract with the state to collect taxes, would limit liabilities for dispensaries...people like yourself wouldn't have to worry about getting audited for paying taxes on medicine sold to people using the MJNA system, all the records would be centralized and the state would just deal with MJNA...

It would not limit liability for the dispensaries as the groups/people that run them are themselves legally responsible for paying their taxes. It's gonna suck when a company that was supposed to pay your taxes for you has a computer error that causes em not to get paid and next thing you know an asshole wearing black tactical gear with DEA written on it carrying machine guns is busting up your place raising hell in your neighborhood. Nah I will pass.

i'm also pretty sure that people won't mind paying taxes if that means they don't have to worry about going to jail...

There are plenty of people who mind paying taxes on things that should not be taxed. Tax evasion is a big deal not just with cannabis, but every industry and regardless of a persons socioeconomic status.

 

[funker]

You know what we could use some capital too. But instead of selling stock one lucky person will be able to get the last coveted spot on the California Cannabis Inc. board of directors as insurance for a loan which will be paid off at a 30% total interest over a 3 year period. Atleast our company offers real services for real patients.

If you're a not-for-profit then you can't sell stock, its not like you have the choice...i assume you are a not-for-profit b/c of the rules for dispensaries in Cali, are you a 501c3? How big of a loan are you looking for? Is the board seat indefinite or only for the period of the loan? I would like to look at the prospectus...

i also did not know not-for-profits could issue debt...with regards to the terms of the loan its better to quote the rate on a per-annum basis, if that is a 3 year zero-coupon note then the rate is 4.47%, compounded semiannually...depending on how much you're looking for and what the board seat entails it could happen but that is less than what a 2-year corporate bond with an A rating yields...i don't know how you would secure a loan like that if asset seizures are a possibility (this may be less of a concern if Obama really does restrict the DEA)...

as far as what MJNA is adding in terms of value, once again its like any other credit/debit card company...visa or discover should have set something up like this...

It would not limit liability for the dispensaries as the groups/people that run them are themselves legally responsible for paying their taxes. It's gonna suck when a company that was supposed to pay your taxes for you has a computer error that causes em not to get paid and next thing you know an asshole wearing black tactical gear with DEA written on it carrying machine guns is busting up your place raising hell in your neighborhood. Nah I will pass.

it depends how they decide to set it up but if the state is going to outsource the tax collection then the liability should fall on those collecting the taxes...nobody knows how that will play out...if they don't indemnify dispensaries then its unlikely the arrangement would make much sense and I doubt anyone would use the service...if the state disagrees with your CPA then the same thing could happen anyway, even if it is an honest disagreement over a mistake on their end...

There are plenty of people who mind paying taxes on things that should not be taxed. Tax evasion is a big deal not just with cannabis, but every industry and regardless of a persons socioeconomic status.

i couldn't agree more, my point was that most people mind going to jail more than they mind paying taxes...

i don't think these discussions need to be contentious, either...i think your project is great and would put money into such things if i could...as far as the stock thing goes it remains to be seen what kind of numbers they come up with, i won't be losing any money on the trade...

 

[Pythagllio]

the revenue thing is because they have released no earnings or guidance since it became MJNA. i think he bought CVIV because of their existing ACH technology and to expedite the process of becoming a publicly-traded company.

the 10-for-1 split thing was odd, for sure. the float was extremely low prior to the split, like 10M shares, I think that was part of it. also when it split it was trading $2.24, so it started at $0.22 after the split and has since almost tripled. honestly though when i bought the stock pre-split that was part of the attraction, stocks always get bid up after they split.

at this point the stock is certainly not a sure thing and i wouldn't represent it as such. i looked at it as a highly leveraged play with very little downside at the price i paid. When i bought the stock it had a market cap of less than $15M. I figured if the company really made it huge it could be a billion-dollar company (or better) and if not then it goes to zero. that is good risk-reward.

i realize they don't have cash flow yet but if you wait to buy the stock until they start getting flow it will be $15/share. considering i am long from about 10 cents a share I'm pretty sure its going to work out for me. If they come up with a revenue stream and some patents its going to be like an internet stock circa-1998.

if you're such a hater why wait for the stock to get bid up before you go short? why not just sell it down here? i think you and i both know you would prefer being long to being short right now.

Why is it that when a scam is called the gullible refer to those who do the expose a 'hater', as if hating people that take people's money by fraud is something to be ashamed of? Mr. Perlowin didn't buy CVIV, he was appointed CEO. Mr. Perlowin has a long history of criminal activity. The people he grew up with understand that he's a con man. The company address is a mail drop run by a print shop in a cheap strip shopping center. CVIV never had any revenue or transactions either. Did you bother to read the information in the link I posted? The entire scam is deconstructed well. Even the company name is a fraud as their business has nothing to do with MMJ.

It is incorrect to say that this stock isn't a sure thing. It is. It is a sure thing that the entire operation is a scam designed to separate the gullible from their money. It is a shame there are people like you who would encourage it because you've been suckered and can'[t admit it to yourself in the face of overwhelming evidence. Your explanations are nothing but rationalizations of why you weren't suckered, are illogical, and the only purpose they serve is a salve to your ego. If you've tripled your money you should sell. Oh wait a second, you cant because 90% of your shares are restricted, correct? Then there's reports that you can't even sell your unrestricted shares because the transfer agent isn't allowing it. No, that's not legal but then again the transfer agent

Good luck to you. The only way you win with this thing is if you manage to sell before the music is over. But if you're bound and determined to be a sucker and hold for $15 (lololol), why don't you lend me your shares so I can sell them short? I'll pay you 4% interest, place an amount equal to the market price in a type 5 account and you can not only get rich on this, you can collect an extra 4% while laughing at my losses. You ask me why I don't short it here. It's a pink sheet stock for crying out loud. I can't just call my guy at Fidelity and ask him to arrange a borrow.

 

[funker]

dude i find ur manner to be mighty triflin...

as far as perlowin's criminal activity, the guy did 9 years for moving bud which i couldn't care less about...i've read about the energy wellness machines and it strikes me as a beef between the FDA and some new-age types into alternative medicine...if the FDA had anything serious on him he wouldn't have gotten off with a year's worth of probation and a $250 fine...i would go so far as to say that the feds probably keep tabs on the guy just so they can fuck with him b/c he's an evil pot felon...

there was a 10-for-1 stock split of CVIV when was relisted under MJNA. this should not be confused with the fact that they are spinning off club vivanet and some other company called mynewpedia corp from the resultant company.

from http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.aspx?board_id=15240 (this can be found on other sites as well):

Pending Spin Offs

In conjunction with the name change, the company is spinning off two subsidiaries on a share for share basis (pre 10 for 1 forward split) of the shares of Club Vivanet, Inc. (a Florida corporation) and MyNewPedia Corp (a Colorado Corporation). While the company has set April 3, 2009 as the record and effective dates, NASDAQ is responsible for establishing an ex-dividend date and up to that date; shareholders and those that buy and hold till the ex-dividend date will be entitled to the forward split and to receive the spin off shares. The spin off shares will be restricted until the subsidiaries register those shares with the SEC or there is an exemption from registration made available.

so that means if u had 100 shares of CVIV before the split, now you would have 1000 shares of MJNA and be entitled to 100 shares of each of the spinoffs...

if there was some way to secure it i would be happy to enter into a bilateral forward contract with you, but i don't see that happening...

i propose that we come to an agreement right here on the board and the loser donates a sum of money in the name of the winner's ICM handle to ASA...the agreement is that i am long 500 shares of MJNA and you are short 500 shares of MJNA at $0.64, the closing price from 5/6/09. We will reconcile the positions against the closing price of MJNA on 9/18/09 and the loser will make the appropriate donation to ASA...so if MJNA closes at $3.00 ur sending a money order to ASA in the name of my handle for $1180 and if it goes to zero i'm sending a money order to ASA in the name of ur handle for $320...the loser will post a pic of their money order in the forum...

there's no need for bickering then, its right here in the forum and ASA wins no matter what...of course u have more exposure than i do but that's what happens if u want to be short what amounts to teeny call options...let me know...

peace

 

[Pythagllio]

Why 9/18/09? That seems pretty arbitrary to me. I'll take you up on the bet if the date is 12/31/09. Still arbitrary, but it gives enough time IMO for the drama to play. I don't mind giving you odds since it makes it a more of a fair bet. Though at 3-1 it's still a sucker bet in my favor.

By the way, the spin off thing is still consistent with past penny stock promotions. For some reason suckers like lots and lots of shares. Me, I'd rather own a single share of BRK.a.

 

[funker]

The end of year is fine with me. I picked the other date b/c I think Q4 will be a bad one for the market in general unless the unemployment numbers improve drastically. The bet is on, the rest of the terms are as outlined in my previous post.

Berkshire has sucked as much as the rest of the market over the last year and it still trades at a p/e of almost 30. I think the correct play on that is to get short the day Buffett dies and maybe buy an index ETF against the short, depending where the index is at the time.

Even though they are evil I think tobacco stocks are a good play right now, in order of preference I would take PM, LO, RAI and MO.

 

[Pythagllio]

MJNA.PK closed at .25 yesterday.

I don't want to hear any bullshit about ASA being worthy. If by chance you're one of those who don't like ASA then LEAP, MPP, or NORML all qualify as acceptable substitutes.

 

[Pythagllio]

Final trade of the year was .21 for MJNA.pk.

funker, you owe the movement a donation of $215 according to the terms of our bet.