So customs took my beans

[Snagglepuss]

I wouldn't be worried about ordering,the odds are probably 99.9% in your favor.But i guess its a very,very remote chance something might happen.

Thats why its so important to follow the rules mentioned ,when buying seeds....

 

[SKUNK420]

i've heard of people who have used foreclosed homes in their area for shipping addresses. some of these house are still getting junk mail all day everyday. so the risk is up to you. don't be naive, people do get busted for seeds they just don't feel the need to go on icmag.com and report about it. remember some crimes or events do not get reported on.

 

[turdcat]

A pack of seeds comes to your PO Box.

This means that "someone" ordered seeds to be delivered to your PO Box. Could be anyone. Could be you. Maybe the seeds are to pass through 3 pairs of hands before being grown, maybe not. For agents to come and talk to you without a warrant totally blows any chance of finding out if you have a buddy that's growing with your safe addy.

What seems to have happened with Angus is these agents decided to assume that Angus was dumb enough to crack under pressure, and he apparently did.
I suppose that there are foolish DEA/police everywhere, but the Angus story sounds highly unlikely. What were the agents hoping for with nothing more than a pack of seeds? Wouldn't they first eyeball you in all their sneaky ways, legal or not, before they come knocking at your door with essentially a "heads up" visit. Of course if 4 big guys (or one) that I didn't know were knocking on my door, I wouldn't answer, and sure as hell wouldn't step outside. Look at all the home invasions nowadays. I won't be a puppet for anyone, LEO or bad guy.

I think that if the agents were there for several minutes (half hour?!!) then Angus said or did something stupid. Sorry Angus, but cops that talk that long are doing it because you've let them know that you've got something to tell them as long as they keep digging. Cops only talk to suspects in order to get information to help them make their case. It sounds like they really bounced you like a beach ball at a concert.

The best lesson to learn from any of this is to know your rights, and make sure to not make the mistakes that usually get people busted. Talking to the police or others, odor, visible stems/seeds, pipes etc.

You can't be a softy, and get easily rattled by the police. First don't even answer your door. If you do, don't let them in your house, and don't step out of your house. Be friendly with them, but stern. Don't let them control the conversation. If they ask you questions, tell them that you're not interested in answering questions unless you are in court. You better know if you're a softy or not. I've said this here once before- you've got to be "militant and smooth". Know your enemy, know yourself. Be nice, be stern.

Some people shouldn't get involved in this hobby at all. These people aren't quick minded enough to know when they're being messed with, and they never switch to the "self protection" mode that won't put up with any sh@#.

There's a little risk in ordering seeds I suppose, but mostly if your "house is not in order". I look at seed interception as a possible "mini lead" for an overactive leo. If some type of investigation doesn't show anything, and it shouldn't unless you're sloppy or hugely commercial (and sloppy) you should be fine.
I've gone on and on with paranoia on another forum about buying grow equipment, and I still think seed orders are less risky, but I won't get into that right now.

I think I'm strong enough mentally to do this at a certain level (small) but a break here and there is welcomed also.

That's how I see it. Peace, and be smart.

 

[KUSHEATER1]

Bullshit take nothing for granted they can and will do what they please I can promise you that stay safe people...put a smile on somebodys face today

 

[Angus]

A pack of seeds comes to your PO Box.

This means that "someone" ordered seeds to be delivered to your PO Box. Could be anyone. Could be you. Maybe the seeds are to pass through 3 pairs of hands before being grown, maybe not. For agents to come and talk to you without a warrant totally blows any chance of finding out if you have a buddy that's growing with your safe addy.

What seems to have happened with Angus is these agents decided to assume that Angus was dumb enough to crack under pressure, and he apparently did.
I suppose that there are foolish DEA/police everywhere, but the Angus story sounds highly unlikely. What were the agents hoping for with nothing more than a pack of seeds? Wouldn't they first eyeball you in all their sneaky ways, legal or not, before they come knocking at your door with essentially a "heads up" visit. Of course if 4 big guys (or one) that I didn't know were knocking on my door, I wouldn't answer, and sure as hell wouldn't step outside. Look at all the home invasions nowadays. I won't be a puppet for anyone, LEO or bad guy.

I think that if the agents were there for several minutes (half hour?!!) then Angus said or did something stupid. Sorry Angus, but cops that talk that long are doing it because you've let them know that you've got something to tell them as long as they keep digging. Cops only talk to suspects in order to get information to help them make their case. It sounds like they really bounced you like a beach ball at a concert.

The best lesson to learn from any of this is to know your rights, and make sure to not make the mistakes that usually get people busted. Talking to the police or others, odor, visible stems/seeds, pipes etc.

You can't be a softy, and get easily rattled by the police. First don't even answer your door. If you do, don't let them in your house, and don't step out of your house. Be friendly with them, but stern. Don't let them control the conversation. If they ask you questions, tell them that you're not interested in answering questions unless you are in court. You better know if you're a softy or not. I've said this here once before- you've got to be "militant and smooth". Know your enemy, know yourself. Be nice, be stern.

Some people shouldn't get involved in this hobby at all. These people aren't quick minded enough to know when they're being messed with, and they never switch to the "self protection" mode that won't put up with any sh@#.

There's a little risk in ordering seeds I suppose, but mostly if your "house is not in order". I look at seed interception as a possible "mini lead" for an overactive leo. If some type of investigation doesn't show anything, and it shouldn't unless you're sloppy or hugely commercial (and sloppy) you should be fine.
I've gone on and on with paranoia on another forum about buying grow equipment, and I still think seed orders are less risky, but I won't get into that right now.

I think I'm strong enough mentally to do this at a certain level (small) but a break here and there is welcomed also.

That's how I see it. Peace, and be smart.

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that I was dumb and cracked?

The agents keep asking to be let in my house and I keep telling them no. They keep ramping up the pressure and I keep telling them no.

They say they are going to go and get a warrant and enter the house. I then try and enter my house and they prevent me unless a officer accompanies me. this goes on and things get very heated. I tell them I'm going in my house and they are not following me in.
Things get very intense and I can tell that if I take one more step towards my door I'm gonna get slammed to the ground and cuffed.

at that point I have to make a decision, do I want to be cuffed for sure or leave and hope that a judge doesn't issue a warrant. I chose the latter.

I left and later that night came back and saw the door busted down and police tape.

as far as to the speculation as why I answered my door.

It's not like they just roll up in front of your house and saunter up to your door with a gift basket.
They park blocks away and surround the house.
Some of you actually have the perception that they are so nice that they phone ahead to give you a courtesy call. " Hello, this is Sargent Stadanko from the drug task force just wanted to give ya a heads up that we'll be stopping by at 3 p.m. to talk about a dope growing operation"

someone was pounding on the front door and then the back. I looked outside and saw no cars or people. I stepped outside and they came from around the house and surrounded me.

Turdcat, I see where you refer to yourself as "millitant smooth" Bwahaaaaaaha. I stood in my front yard and repeatedly told these jack booted thugs to fuck off. no matter what tactic they tried I told them no way.

I would love to see some of the internet tough guys get surrounded by aggressive agents with hands on thier pistols and up in your face for a hour and see how "millitant smoothe" they are.

When customs notifies LEO that you attempt to order beans some of you actually think they won't do anything. when they show up at your door and tell you that they have proof that you ordered seeds.
Do you actually believe that you tell them that you aren't growing and they just turn around and walk away and go about thier business?

UNFORTUNATELY the original poster on this thread Mickey mouse has just started a new thread and the cops did come knocking on his door and they nailed him.
I suppose he's lying also.

Mickey, hang in there Brother.

 

[boroboro]

I think that the low-level / personal stash growers should pay attention to these stories. More high-profile growers might find a bit of police attention or a knock-and-talk an acceptable risk, and plan accordingly.

Small time growers growing in a closet at home may be less likely to find this acceptable. Even a suspicion of growing might be unacceptable to the small time guy. There are probably two sets of rules to play by:

• Large scale:
  • Protect yourself against legal implications, something that could lead to a conviction.
  • A 'bust' might be acceptable, if no conviction will result.
  • People suspect? Well, we'll just move the op.
• Small Scale:
  • You never even want to have to talk to the police, friends, family, acquaintances, etc. about growing.
  • Any action that might lead to this should be avoided (seeds sent to your address, supplies ordered from a grow store, etc.).
  • People suspect? Shit, guess I can't grow anymore.

[/LIST]1. Protect yourself against legal repercussions

 

[Weedninja]

Anyone saying that they can't flag an address is spreading misinformation that is going to get people busted. It's easy-
Postal Inspector: Letter Carrier Smith, can you watch 420 Hemp Street for any package thicker than a letter, especially anything coming from Canada or Europe?
Letter Carrier Smith:Yes.
Bang! Your ass is flagged!

I don't get why everyone is busting Angus's balls. The dude comes in to try to keep people from getting busted and he gets attacked. Am I missing something?

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

Anyone saying that they can't flag an address is spreading misinformation that is going to get people busted. It's easy-
Postal Inspector: Letter Carrier Smith, can you watch 420 Hemp Street for any package thicker than a letter, especially anything coming from Canada or Europe?
Letter Carrier Smith:Yes.
Bang! Your ass is flagged!

I don't get why everyone is busting Angus's balls. The dude comes in to try to keep people from getting busted and he gets attacked. Am I missing something?

maybe it is in some people's interest that people who order seeds remain naive to the scene.

so
be safe, not stupid

peace all

 

[Kush_Dreams]

sure is an interesting read but here only Angus knows the truth so i have nothing about his situation...

I think the safest way to get beans (if you live in the U.S.) is to actually go to Canada on legit vacation,then drop by a seed bank on the way home Carry them beaners back on your person or stashed well in your car.

 

[79towncar]

Just the luck of the draw...

 

[melvin2]

getting busted for ordering seeds has, can, and probably will happen even more. The universe isn't static. Everything evolves. Small towns are the perfect place for something like this to start.

That is why using a safe address is so stressed here. Everybody knows people normally don't get busted for ordering seeds, but it's a "just in case" if ever there is a time this changes.

Anything could change and start a new trend in law enforcement at any time.

To say it can NEVER happen is foolish. Nothing lasts forever.

Safe Addy....

More and more these days, the post office wont deliver to a fake name so keep that in mind.

Stay ahead of the game.

(a sticky for noobs outlining the "do's" and "don'ts" of ordering seeds and using a safe addy would be an asset)

 

[LazLo]

Got an order confiscated once at the Chicago hub. NO green tape, just hand slit open and packing tape closed with form letter inserted into original business size envelope that beans were being sent in to a safe addy. And that was 4 months after the order was sent!!

NOTICE OF REMOVAL

If the item(s) seized are controlled substances in Schedule l or ll of Title 21, U S Code, Section 812, no further correspondence will be issued to you.The items are considered contraband and are immediately forfeited to the United States (21 USC 881(f) and 19 CFRN 162.45a).

This was some time ago. The beans ordered last year made it thru. Hope to make my own to avoid more "NOTICES." Don't need any visits from folks with stinkin' badges.

Risk is a given. No comfort zone from start to finish and..........all the bits in between. Avoiding detection is 24/7 objective.

If you believe everything you read, you better not read.
-- Japanese proverb

 

[pinecone]

I had beans ordered from Seedbay confiscated a few years ago (expensive ones at that). I don't remember if I had a grow going at the time, but if I did I doubt I would of shut it down. Anyway nothing ever became of it.

If I lived in a small town in a the southern US I might be more concerned about an incident like this, but because of where I live and the nature of my grow (small personal) I don't think it is cause for concern; nobody here is going to bother pursuing an investigation or getting or issuing a warrant because some upstanding citizen had a small seed order confiscated.

Pine

 

[basspirate]

So...

So...

What constitutes a good 'safe addy'? All my friends sell or consume in quantity, so none of them are going to have beans coming to their house; even for a share of glory at the end. I work at a UPS Store and they keep current records of your id and whatnot when it comes to renting a PMB. So what does that leave? I am certainly interested in procuring some amazing genetics once I move growing indoors for the winter (for my first time indoor grow); but I am one of those afformentioned 'small time' growers.

I think this is a really great thread. Whether you are smoking, growing or whatever there are different levels of and very real risks and repercussions to our great hobby and passion.


I also think that the mention of taking a legit vacation to BC and stopping by a seedbank is a good idea. If you take good care to ship off a small box full of dummy items with your seeds uber-carefully stashed, I don't see how you would get caught besides an act of God.

I believe someone else asked this in passing; can dogs smell pot seeds? ...something is believing me to think not. Well, at least they aren't training the dogs to seek them out or anything at this point...but who knows.

Cheers to all.

 

[Woall]

if the cops show up at your door for ordering seeds, and you do not have a grow inside your house at that time, what can they charge you with? Is the act of ordering seeds a crime in itself? I didn't think it was exactly "legal" but I certainly never thought you could get in any serious trouble unless you actually grew them.

here is how the worst case scenario is playing out in my mind... the chances of which I have upgraded from .01% to .02% in light of Agnus' story.

i'm chilling in my apartment....
Loud beating against my door...
I open it up and there is a SWAT team with guns drawn....
They alert me to their intentions of searching my place....
I say, "you must be here about the marijuana seeds I ordered. I hate to see that you have gone through the trouble of organizing this raid... you see, I am planning on doing some growing at my vacation home in Madagascar... leaving in a few weeks on a private jet... go ahead and take a look around if you like."

or....

"I thought these seeds would make a nice gift for my cancer-patient friend out in L.A. who has permission from the California government to grow."

or... "my friend in India told me a few days ago that he was shipping seeds to me to thank me for giving him a place to stay once... When I told him marijuana is illegal over here we tried to cancel the order but it was too far along in transit."

will they throw me in jail just for ordering seeds? I ordered seeds a few days ago but I wouldn't begin to think about actually germinating them until maybe a year from now. and I have nothing illegal going on in my residence or evidence of such, except for one book about cannabis on my shelf. Say the seeds package arrives on time and intact, with no sign of customs interference, and I let a year go by.... what would be the chances of the cops showing up at my door in response to a customs notification from over a year ago?

 

[basspirate]

knowing the US gov't...they will paint you out to be some kind of columbian drug lord, or as a terrorist or some shit if they came to your house and found the beans. i'm sure there's some bullshit term for it like 'conspiracy to manufacture and illegal substance". i think it's unlikely that they'll ever show up tho. i just always assume the worst of leo's when it comes to pot.

 

[Woall]

that's what I'm afraid of. I think what I might say if they show up is, "I am planning on moving to California in the near future to became a legal med patient. I had no intentions of germinating the seeds until then."

From a logical standpoint I cannot fathom a felony charge resulting from the mere act of ordering seeds. But obviously I'm not 100% sure so I am sweating it. I would love to hear some more opinions on this.... the question is.... if you order seeds to your home in the USA but have no grow and no plans of ever having a grow, can you get in serious trouble? I honestly think I will be too paranoid to grow these seeds when and if they arrive. So if they are going to throw me in jail just for ordering seeds one night after a few drinks on a brave whim, I would be shocked in amazement.

 

[zeddius2]

that's what I'm afraid of. I think what I might say if they show up is, "I am planning on moving to California in the near future to became a legal med patient. I had no intentions of germinating the seeds until then."

From a logical standpoint I cannot fathom a felony charge resulting from the mere act of ordering seeds. But obviously I'm not 100% sure so I am sweating it. I would love to hear some more opinions on this.... the question is.... if you order seeds to your home in the USA but have no grow and no plans of ever having a grow, can you get in serious trouble? I honestly think I will be too paranoid to grow these seeds when and if they arrive. So if they are going to throw me in jail just for ordering seeds one night after a few drinks on a brave whim, I would be shocked in amazement.

no woall... you dont say anything . nothing at at all!
by saying something like that your confessing you might as well just say im guilty take to jail and waist my money and freedom

 

[hbstoner]

no woall... you dont say anything . nothing at at all!
by saying something like that your confessing you might as well just say im guilty take to jail and waist my money and freedom

Ya do not say anything to them.. except they are not allowed to come in. The fact is how do these guys even know these are marijuana seeds? They could be from many other legal plants. Without popping them and growing them , i doubt just a seed is enough evidence to prove what it will grow into. Some kinda lab tests would have to be done on the seeds to decide what they are exactly.

If they happen to prove that they are somehow pot seeds, then 2nd is how do they prove that you actually ordered them. The company you got them from would have to rat you out, unless you were stupid and put your real name on the package. Even then , how do they know that you requested these seeds and it wasn't just an asshole friend shipping them to your house for his own benefit.

The only reason for these guys to come do a knock and talk is to get an idea if you are growing in there or not. So i say if they come and knock and talk, walk outside, lock the door behind you and dont tell them anything. Id like to see an actual court case where someone got in trouble for ordering seeds and they had no grow going on at their house.

 

[igrowone]

Well, I found this thread one hell of a read. Certainly got my attention.

Angus was certainly credible sounding. Could be true, but I do have a issue with one aspect of the story.

Multiple LEO's banging on the doors with no warrant in hand? That doesn't sound quite right. I'm not involved with LE, so no expert. Anyone that may peek this thread from time to time care to comment? I don't see a large op like this going down without a warrant.