Dark Period Disturbance for AF: Matter or Not?

[krazycure]

I have gone back and forth on this; if the AF gene is firmly implanted in genetics, will it matter at all, a little, some, or much if the "established" dark period (same dark hours for more than 3 weeks) is interrupted by brief periods of light?

I have a habit of wanting to take some pictures, or check on, or clip, or just generally admire my AF plants during their 'dark' period (currently 8 hours dark to 16 hours light), for 2-5 minute intervals while they are resting (mostly on weekends). Does anyone really know whether or not this is as disruptive as it would be to a regular 12/12 strain? What do you think? The ambient light is relative low (just a couple of 13w CFLS to see in the room).

 

[Kodiak]

Interesting question krazycure.

My guess is that it does matter if the dark period is interrupted as in nature this would not happen. They might freak out, I do not think that AF strains would be any different than normally flowering plants in this regard. As a matter of fact, AF strains are probably more prone to hermafroditism due to their ruderalis hemp heritage. I would definitely not try it on feminized plants.

The wave length of moonlight (about 470 nm) is fairly close to the active wavelength of chlorophyll b (about 450 nm), so the question is whether or not a low wattage blue light cfl would interfere with flowering. I think that the main problem here is the intensity of the emitted light. One lux is equal to one lumen per square metre. The reflected sunlight from the full moon has an intensity of 0.25-1.0 lux, compared to the 32,000–130,000 lux of direct sunlight. Even the light intensity from a low wattage cfl is at least 100 times stronger than the light reflected from the moon. This means that the photosynthetic pigments in the leafs will most likely register the light from the cfl's as sunlight and the plant freaks out.

It is really hard to say how much light during the dark period is enough to stress out the plants as every plant is genetically different from the next and might respond in a different way. Some plants are more prone to hermafroditism while others can resist this dual-sex state even under stress.

The bottom line is; why take the risk in the first place when you can wait a few hours or use green light instead? Sometimes it is really difficult to spot the bananas on a hermie in time, usually you end up with a lot of feminized seeds instead of sinsemilla.

Just my

 

[Mr. Stinky]

My guess is that it does matter if the dark period is interrupted as in nature this would not happen. They might freak out, I do not think that AF strains would be any different than normally flowering plants in this regard. As a matter of fact, AF strains are probably more prone to hermafroditism due to their ruderalis hemp heritage. I would definitely not try it on feminized plants.

how could they "freak out"? auto's have no internal light timer as do 12/12 strains. they dont have hormone levels that get destroyed in the presence of light. they will not shock with light in the dark cycle. the shock is from hormonal reaction to light, and they dont have that reaction. the only reason for auto's to hermie is due to some other stress or chemicals. although its a false positive situation because the newbie who would typically be the one who would go into the room during dark, would also be the one to overfert, not check ph, and stress the plants to hermie, and then blame the light...if it wasnt the light, then it would have to be their growing skillz, and that certainly couldnt be it and what would feminized seeds have to do with it?

The bottom line is; why take the risk in the first place when you can wait a few hours or use green light instead? Sometimes it is really difficult to spot the bananas on a hermie in time, usually you end up with a lot of feminized seeds instead of sinsemilla.

lots of "internet theory" in your post...ive personally witnessed the herm take over a room that was "green lighted" in the dark only 6-8 times in flowering. the science just does not agree with using a green light, or auto's shocking from light, or fems causing hermies, or auto's being more prone to intersex...all these things and more have been posted and re-posted on boards like this, but are just "stonerisms", and not backed by fact.

 

[Kodiak]

Ok, I admit that I didn't give that enough thought.

You might be right. Since the flowering is triggered under any light condition, the AF strains might not freak out. The way I reasoned was that turning the lights on and off randomly during the dark period might stress the plant out as the light schedule would not be consistant.

Are you saying that you could grow AF strains under a strobing HPS?

The reason why I mentioned the feminized plants is because they carry the dominant trait for hermafrodism. One of the parents were a hermafrodite female, that's how you make feminized seeds in the first place. Since the trait is dominant, feminized plants have a greater risk of freaking out than plants with normal stable genes.

This is from Robert Connell Clarks book on Marijuana Botany:

"In most cases, the offspring of hermaphrodite parents tend toward hermaphrodism, which is largely unfavorable for the production of Cannabis other than fiber hemp."

I haven't tried the green light but it would make sense as green is the only spectrum of light that plants do not absorb, hence the color.

 

[Mr. Stinky]

Ok, I admit that I didn't give that enough thought.

and i apologize for sounding harsh...i guess ive just been building a complex lately about the stuff that gets passed around

You might be right. Since the flowering is triggered under any light condition, the AF strains might not freak out. The way I reasoned was that turning the lights on and off randomly during the dark period might stress the plant out as the light schedule would not be consistant.

Are you saying that you could grow AF strains under a strobing HPS?

i honestly dont see why not. do you?

The reason why I mentioned the feminized plants is because they carry the dominant trait for hermafroditism. One of the parents were a hermafrodite female, that's how you make feminized seeds in the first place. Since the trait is dominant, feminized plants have a greater risk of freaking out than plants with normal stable genes.

heres where you are a little off man. you are confusing "hermaphrodite" with a forced female. the genetic predisposition of staminate flowers on a female is in every mj plant. the threshold is the difference. a "strong" female will refuse to "hermie", while a weak female will easily throw nanners. many sativas are 100% hermaphroditic. they just do it regardless of conditions. its all just genetics. when the strong female is chemically forced, its progeny will carry that trait on. they will also be "strong" females. it is the strong moms that are used to breed fem seed....not hermies. theres a difference if you havent ever heard of Mendel, you should do a google search and read about his work with peas.

when you use a hermie to make seeds, you can expect hermies, just as you can expect zero hermies when using a strong mom forced to intersex. the chemicals cannot change genetic material...at least not the ones we use to force MJ

I haven't tried the green light but it would make sense as green is the only spectrum of light that plants do not absorb, hence the color.

at first glance it would seem so, but the science isnt there. the problem is that no light bulb makes only a single wavelength of light, and the plant will see those wavelengths. the plant also has many other hormones and functions sensitive to presence of light, green or otherwise. and if you could make a light that only emitted a single green wavelength, and that single wavelength would somehow not be noticed by the plants, you wouldnt be able to see anything except the most green objects in the room. everything else absorbs that spectrum, making things fairly black. right? only things that are white or green would be visible

 

[Tropic]

One of the reasons I grow AFs is to be able to be on my balcony at night (with the lights on) without worrying about light issues with the plants. I've never had any issues so far, however I can't affirm it does not induce stress, but if it does, it ain't noticeable!

Peace

 

[Kodiak]

heres where you are a little off man. you are confusing "hermaphrodite" with a forced female

I agree, I did some more reading after posting and I did confuse the two. The female stressed into hermafrodism is more likely to produce hermafroditic offspring, while the female that sprouts a few nanners in late flowering gives rise to mostly normal females.

Naturally the "strong females" that throw out a few nanners would be used to create feminized seeds as then the ratio of females would be significantly higher than in seeds from a female stressed into hermafrodism. Thanks for clearing that up.

Now I understand what Soma was talking about in his article on Rodelization

Good that you also cleared up the issue of the green light. Not that I was planning on using one but I would not like to recommend it someone that might consider it, which could result in a ruined harvest.

Sorry for the confusion, I get it now :smile:

 

[krazycure]

Good points, any more first-hand experience would be appreciated!

 

[Rose56]

Hi, I have always heard that it won't bother them. Personally I grow my AFs with 24/7 lighting. Its always been my understanding that they don't need a dark period.

 

[Mr. Stinky]

I agree, I did some more reading after posting and I did confuse the two. The female stressed into hermafrodism is more likely to produce hermafroditic offspring, while the female that sprouts a few nanners in late flowering gives rise to mostly normal females.

a female that is stressed to hermie will produce seeds that will require roughly the same amount of stress to hermie. if it takes GA or STS, then the same with the seeds.

Naturally the "strong females" that throw out a few nanners would be used to create feminized seeds as then the ratio of females would be significantly higher than in seeds from a female stressed into hermafrodism. Thanks for clearing that up.

strong females shouldnt throw nanners without provocation. if they do, i wouldnt call em strong. a hermie is still a female plant, just with staminate flowers. so using a plant that hermies under slight stress will produce all female seeds, but the seeds will also have a tendency to "hermie". when we make fems, we need to stress a group of many females to find the ones with the least tendency to hermie, then force them with GA to make the seeds. that way the seeds will also have a high tolerance to stress. make sense? :smile:

Good that you also cleared up the issue of the green light. Not that I was planning on using one but I would not like to recommend it someone that might consider it, which could result in a ruined harvest.

Sorry for the confusion, I get it now :smile:

im just goin on what ive seen, read, and learned. we all take up information differently, and we all learn in different ways. i dont mean to sound like a know-it-all or to put down anyone else. i am just conveying my thoughts as they sound in my head. i hope they soud the same to yours happy toking

 

[Kodiak]

No worries, my brain isn't working today. Yeah ok, I see what you mean. The female that is most resistant to the the condition is the best choice for parenting fem seeds. Makes sense. So that's where the colloidal silver comes in then I gather.

 

[krazycure]

I would point out that even though the autoflower gene is dominant, can we REALLY be sure that the 12/12 strain influence that is in every AF hybrid cross (since no one grows pure ruderalis) won't affect the plant's behaviour during the dark period AT ALL? It's interesting to think that just because the plant will sex regardless of how much light it gets, that it also, in turn, will not care if the dark period is interrupted once that period is established. AF plants can tell when it's night time, they lower leaves, relax, and take it easy. It's not like they don't respond to the dark period.

 

[Kodiak]

Isn't the autoflowering gene recessive?

 

[krazycure]

Well as far as I know if it's a true AF, EVERY plant in that line will AF, no further generation will ever become less AF, so in that respect it's not recessive. Maybe in scientific terms it's recessive, but that's not what I meant. I meant more like dominant as more influence over behavior than say in relation to its (admittedly some) 12/12 genes.

 

[Kodiak]

Yes I agree but the reason why these lowryder strain are autoflowering is because the recessive autoflowering gene has been isolated through selective breeding.

In this case I use the example of how Lowryder was bred to Santa Maria/Planck in order to create LR#2. So;

Santa Maria x Lowryder = AA x aa = 100% Aa F1 --> The autoflowering trait is masked by the gene for normal flowering but all the offspring carry the recessive trait.

(Santa Maria x Lowryder) x Lowryder = Aa F1 x aa = 50% aa F2 + 50% Aa F2 --> 50% autoflowering in the second generation. This is where the selection for AF plants begins. We pick one of the AF F2's and cross it once more to a true breeding Lowryder,

[(Santa Maria x Lowryder) x Lowryder] x Lowryder = aa F2 x aa = 100% aa F3 = Lowryder #2


Every time you cross a LR to a normal plant you have to isolate the recessive trait this way. When crossing LR x LR this is not a problem as both parents carry only the gene for the recessive autoflowering trait.

 

[blynx]

Yes I agree but the reason why these lowryder strain are autoflowering is because the recessive autoflowering gene has been isolated through selective breeding.

In this case I use the example of how Lowryder was bred to Santa Maria/Planck in order to create LR#2. So;

Santa Maria x Lowryder = AA x aa = 100% Aa F1 --> The autoflowering trait is masked by the gene for normal flowering but all the offspring carry the recessive trait.

(Santa Maria x Lowryder) x Lowryder = Aa F1 x aa = 50% aa F2 + 50% Aa F2 --> 50% autoflowering in the second generation. This is where the selection for AF plants begins. We pick one of the AF F2's and cross it once more to a true breeding Lowryder,

[(Santa Maria x Lowryder) x Lowryder] x Lowryder = aa F2 x aa = 100% aa F3 = Lowryder #2

Every time you cross a LR to a normal plant you have to isolate the recessive trait this way. When crossing LR x LR this is not a problem as both parents carry only the gene for the recessive autoflowering trait.

thanks for the concise example

 

[DIRT DIGGLER]

OK....here's the million dollar question....I been growing my auto's on 24 hours light,but I have an annual inspection of my apartment coming up in a week, if I where to shut my lights off for maybe 4-5 hours. will it hurt my girls, I really need an answer on this,it would be much appreciated.

 

[pimp_grow!]

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[DIRT DIGGLER]

thnaks man....you've been a great help.

 

[DIRT DIGGLER]

Lights where out for 5 hours. they seemed to enjoy the rest. thnaks for the help.