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dreamci
hello i am growing lowryder 2 , it has been 1,5 months but it hasnt started to flower yet, it is supposed to be harvested in 2 months, also it doesnt show preflowers, what can be the problem please help
Wacky Tobacky
Active member
whats your light cycle like? just throw it into 12/12 if you havent done so. just cause its auto flowering doesnt mean to leave it at 24hrs lights on. most people like to grow auto flowering strains so they can grow them outside any time.
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dreamci
hey my light cycle is 20 hours light 4 hours dark but shouldnt they start to flower no matter what my light cycle is, this is my first grow i dont want to fail
hello there
so you're growing lowryder 2, and it doesn't flower?
Right, let's talk genetics here: lowryder 2 is a f1 hybrid between lowryder and santa maria, in other words an f1 hybrid between an autoflowering strain based on ruderalis (which contains low THC high CBN / CBD) and another strain, polyhybrid (http://www.vibescollective.org/strainguide/hybrids/2772 ) unless the elite santa maria cut has been used (which doesn't change anything to the bit to understand in the next few lines)
in other words, some of the seeds issued from that cross will autoflower and resemble lowryder, some of the seeds will autoflower and show lowryder/santa characteristics, some of the seeds will only have santa maria phenotype, even though they have lowryder genes inside,etc
Now santa maria which i have grown from cut is a short flowering, high thc strain (8weeks flkowering and i like my strains overmatured so 1 to 2 weeks earlier is good to harvest), but it desperately needs 12/12 to flower...
I suggest you top them (santa has been proven to have better yield when topped to form a few branches) and stick yur timer to 12/12 to see them flowering... 'n mark my words: try 'n take cuttings of this pheno, it might just be the strongest one you'll get from these lowryder 2 seeds
also preflowers generally do not appear before 7th 8th node, which figures if it's a santa dominant pheno...
A better understanding of genetics often helps to choose a strain my friend
Best vibes to u and good luck with yur grow
KOol AiD
so you're growing lowryder 2, and it doesn't flower?
Right, let's talk genetics here: lowryder 2 is a f1 hybrid between lowryder and santa maria, in other words an f1 hybrid between an autoflowering strain based on ruderalis (which contains low THC high CBN / CBD) and another strain, polyhybrid (http://www.vibescollective.org/strainguide/hybrids/2772 ) unless the elite santa maria cut has been used (which doesn't change anything to the bit to understand in the next few lines)
in other words, some of the seeds issued from that cross will autoflower and resemble lowryder, some of the seeds will autoflower and show lowryder/santa characteristics, some of the seeds will only have santa maria phenotype, even though they have lowryder genes inside,etc
Now santa maria which i have grown from cut is a short flowering, high thc strain (8weeks flkowering and i like my strains overmatured so 1 to 2 weeks earlier is good to harvest), but it desperately needs 12/12 to flower...
I suggest you top them (santa has been proven to have better yield when topped to form a few branches) and stick yur timer to 12/12 to see them flowering... 'n mark my words: try 'n take cuttings of this pheno, it might just be the strongest one you'll get from these lowryder 2 seeds
also preflowers generally do not appear before 7th 8th node, which figures if it's a santa dominant pheno...
A better understanding of genetics often helps to choose a strain my friend
Best vibes to u and good luck with yur grow
KOol AiD
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dreamci
thanks for the reply but i have two lowryder 2 both havent started to flower . let me put them to 12/12 and see what happens
So you are saying LR2 is not a stable autoflower genetic plant?hello there
so you're growing lowryder 2, and it doesn't flower?
Right, let's talk genetics here: lowryder 2 is a f1 hybrid between lowryder and santa maria, in other words an f1 hybrid between an autoflowering strain based on ruderalis (which contains low THC high CBN / CBD) and another strain, polyhybrid (http://www.vibescollective.org/strainguide/hybrids/2772 ) unless the elite santa maria cut has been used (which doesn't change anything to the bit to understand in the next few lines)
in other words, some of the seeds issued from that cross will autoflower and resemble lowryder, some of the seeds will autoflower and show lowryder/santa characteristics, some of the seeds will only have santa maria phenotype, even though they have lowryder genes inside,etc
Now santa maria which i have grown from cut is a short flowering, high thc strain (8weeks flkowering and i like my strains overmatured so 1 to 2 weeks earlier is good to harvest), but it desperately needs 12/12 to flower...
I suggest you top them (santa has been proven to have better yield when topped to form a few branches) and stick yur timer to 12/12 to see them flowering... 'n mark my words: try 'n take cuttings of this pheno, it might just be the strongest one you'll get from these lowryder 2 seeds
also preflowers generally do not appear before 7th 8th node, which figures if it's a santa dominant pheno...
A better understanding of genetics often helps to choose a strain my friend
Best vibes to u and good luck with yur grow
KOol AiD
M
MEDI-EVIL
take some clones b4 u go 12/12..
good luck
me.
good luck
me.
Hi dreamci
I have had LR's that autoflower under 20/4 and other that only showed pre-flowers under the same light schdule but all were still early and started flowering under 18/6 at the latest. The reason why your plants wont flower is not because they are F1's. All the strains from the Joint Doctor are stabilized hybrids. In order to get 100% autoflowering LR's, you have to backcross your hybrid twice to a true breeding LR since the autoflowering trait is recessive.
Lowryder #2
Consider here that aa = Lowryder, AA = Santa Maria and Aa = F1 hybrid of the two.
a = recessive autoflowering trait
A = dominant normal flowering
aa x aa = 100% aa F1 = 100% of the offspring carry the autoflowering trait in this (lowryder x lowryder) cross.
1. aa x AA = 100% Aa F1 = The recessive gene is masked by the dominant gene but the offspring carry it as well.
2. aa x Aa F1 = 50% aa F2 + 50% Aa F2 = 50% of the offspring carry the autoflowering trait, while the other half has it masked by normal flowering genes.
3. If we then take one of the autoflowering aa F2 individuals and cross it to a true breeding lowryder we get the same result as in the first example, aa F2 x aa = 100% autoflowering offspring.
Lowryder #2 F3 = 100% autflowering [[(Santa Maria x Lowryder) x LR] x LR], that has 12,5% of the genes from the non-autoflowering SM P1 individual.
As you can see there is no chance that your LR#2 seeds are F1 as no plant from those seeds would autoflower. The first AF generation would be the F3, but since it takes many generations to refine a strain, it's probably more like F7 or something similar.
There is little chance that The Joint Doctor would ship out seeds that didn't AF since he has been working on his strains for well over ten years, so the problem must be elsewhere.
Since both your Lowryders refuse to flower the problem has to be either with the environment, the soil or the nutes. Heavily fertilized plants can behave strangely. Still, you could try flushin the plant and then adding mostly flowering nutes as that might encourage the plant to begin flowering. One final reason could be that your plants are mutants.
Try 18/6 and see if that works. Then your LR#2 can at least be classified as early. If it shows no preflowers or signs of flowering under 18/6, switch to 12/12 and flower it normally like any other plant.
I have had LR's that autoflower under 20/4 and other that only showed pre-flowers under the same light schdule but all were still early and started flowering under 18/6 at the latest. The reason why your plants wont flower is not because they are F1's. All the strains from the Joint Doctor are stabilized hybrids. In order to get 100% autoflowering LR's, you have to backcross your hybrid twice to a true breeding LR since the autoflowering trait is recessive.
Lowryder #2
Consider here that aa = Lowryder, AA = Santa Maria and Aa = F1 hybrid of the two.
a = recessive autoflowering trait
A = dominant normal flowering
aa x aa = 100% aa F1 = 100% of the offspring carry the autoflowering trait in this (lowryder x lowryder) cross.
1. aa x AA = 100% Aa F1 = The recessive gene is masked by the dominant gene but the offspring carry it as well.
2. aa x Aa F1 = 50% aa F2 + 50% Aa F2 = 50% of the offspring carry the autoflowering trait, while the other half has it masked by normal flowering genes.
3. If we then take one of the autoflowering aa F2 individuals and cross it to a true breeding lowryder we get the same result as in the first example, aa F2 x aa = 100% autoflowering offspring.
Lowryder #2 F3 = 100% autflowering [[(Santa Maria x Lowryder) x LR] x LR], that has 12,5% of the genes from the non-autoflowering SM P1 individual.
As you can see there is no chance that your LR#2 seeds are F1 as no plant from those seeds would autoflower. The first AF generation would be the F3, but since it takes many generations to refine a strain, it's probably more like F7 or something similar.
There is little chance that The Joint Doctor would ship out seeds that didn't AF since he has been working on his strains for well over ten years, so the problem must be elsewhere.
Since both your Lowryders refuse to flower the problem has to be either with the environment, the soil or the nutes. Heavily fertilized plants can behave strangely. Still, you could try flushin the plant and then adding mostly flowering nutes as that might encourage the plant to begin flowering. One final reason could be that your plants are mutants.
Try 18/6 and see if that works. Then your LR#2 can at least be classified as early. If it shows no preflowers or signs of flowering under 18/6, switch to 12/12 and flower it normally like any other plant.
Mr. Stinky
Member
L2 is not F1...not even F4. its a stabilized 100% autoflower strain. if you are a newb, and your L2 doesnt flower at all, its because of environmental conditions, not genetics, im sure.
what light are you using? soil? take a pic and post it for us
what light are you using? soil? take a pic and post it for us
This is exactly what i thought. I knew joint doctor wouldnt release an unstable auto strain. Anyone getting seeds of auto genetics that wont flower under 24/7 light got duped when they bought those seeds. You can not call a plant autoflower unless it flowers under 24/7 light. This is fact.
I have always been told it only takes three crosses to lock down the af trait. You can then inbreed to lock down phenotypes you desire through inbreeding of the f3's and beyond. In your formula you are forgetting you can cut down on the crosses by selecting only the seeds that af in the f1 and f2 generations therefore you are crossing plants that all have af dominant genes.
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dreamci
hello i uploaded 2 picture of plant , it has some nute burns, its 18 cm long, i bought the seeds from attitude seed bank, i use 2 80w 6400k cfls , 20/4
what should i do now it has been 49 days but not flowering also there is no signs of preflowers , is it possible to save these plants ,thanks
what should i do now it has been 49 days but not flowering also there is no signs of preflowers , is it possible to save these plants ,thanks
SweetBOG
Member
Looks like some nute burn, my friend; and that should be your biggest concern right now. If you have an extra week, flush heavily with plain water in the bath tub, wait a few days, then flush again. When it's time to water again, go get some Fox Farm Open Sesame, cut your lights to 12/12 and sit back and watch the hairs pile on.
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dreamci
hello , yes it has nute burns but i dont know if its blocking flowering, i will flush it but i dont have fox farm products in my country, will 12/12 work?
I agree on the inbreeding of F3's to lock down phenos but I have been told that the autoflowering trait is recessive, so based on that information there cannot be any AF plants in the F1 generation. I don't see how you could short cut these stages. Remember that the first cross is a hybrid of a normal plant and a lowryder. In this case I used the example of how Lowryder was bred to Santa Maria/Planck in order to create LR#2. So;
Santa Maria x Lowryder = AA x aa = 100% Aa F1 --> The autoflowering trait is masked by the gene for normal flowering but all the offspring carry the recessive trait.
(Santa Maria x Lowryder) x Lowryder = Aa F1 x aa = 50% aa F2 + 50% Aa F2 --> 50% autoflowering in the second generation. This is where the selection for AF plants begins. We pick one of the AF F2's and cross it once more to a true breeding Lowryder,
[(Santa Maria x Lowryder) x Lowryder] x Lowryder = aa F2 x aa = 100% aa F3 = Lowryder #2
Naturally I am assuming here that the tropical Santa Maria/Planck strain did not carry the recessive gene to begin with. The same goes for Diesel Ryder, Blue Ryder/Blue Streak, Master Low and every other LR strain that has been created by crossing true breeding lowryders to plants that flower normally.
I guess you could grow the autoflowering F2's if you are not interested in making more seeds beyond that point but in order to create a stabilized hybrid you have to complete all the steps up to the F3's and then start working on the phenos.
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dreamci, a strong concentration of nutrients can lead to stunted growth and nutrient lock-out, which has the same effect as nutrient deficiencies. You need to flush the plants. Best way is shower them several times, a few minutes each time. Once you have gotten the excess nutrients out of the soil feed it only fresh water for some time until they need more nutes again.
Once you get the soil in order try switching to 18/6 and then to 12/12 if needed. Sooner or later it will start flowering by itself since it has autoflowering genes.
That's why there is no point in cloning LR strains, the clones and mother plants will start flowering although they are kept under 20/4 or even 24/0.
SweetBOG
Member
hi, agreed, the nute burn should not be blocking flowering. The posts regarding genetics are sensible. 12/12 will definitely work. Sorry that she didn't flower the way you expected, but on the bright side, you have a good opportunity to get her healthy before she kicks into flowering, and that will go a long way toward more yield and flavor. If no Fox Farm, you can get some other PK boosting product (Open Sesame is rated at 9-45-19). Not 100% necessary to start her flowering, it just really boosts flower production in my experience. I'm not worried about ya, you'll do fine when you cut lights down.
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dreamci
ok then i will start with flushing and how should i do it ?
should i give too much water ? is that all or i should get the plant and roots out of soil and wash roots and plant then plant it again in another soil? also only nuts i could find is npk 8-8-8 , will this work? this is my first grow so yield not important i just want to get some also can i use 6400k cfls for flowering or 2700k is a must? thanks for helps
should i give too much water ? is that all or i should get the plant and roots out of soil and wash roots and plant then plant it again in another soil? also only nuts i could find is npk 8-8-8 , will this work? this is my first grow so yield not important i just want to get some
also can i use 6400k cfls for flowering or 2700k is a must? thanks for helps
Seems like you also have a minor case of overwatering on your hands. The soil in the bottom of the pot is probably over-saturated and the roots are not getting enough oxygen. That's why the leafs are drooping. The ph might also be off due to the excess of water and nutes. Try flushing at first and if they do not start picking up from there, repot the plants as a last resort. Plants like moist but not wet soil so you will have to try whatever works. Keep the plants under a veg light schedule until they are healthy again.
If you cannot find any flowering nutes, the npk 8-8-8 will probably work as long as you get the soil in order. Plants need more N during vegetative growth and more P during flowering, but a little bit of both is needed for the plant to remain healthy. Like SweetBOG said, normally you would feed the plant nutes with low N, high P and medium K in order to boost flowering.
You can use the daylight 6400k cfl's for flowering but they will not work nearly as well as the warmlight 2700k cfl's. I would say that it is almost a must if you want the plants to put out a decent amount of bud. Blue light promotes vegetative growth even under a 12/12 light schedule, while the red light tells the plant that autumn is coming and it will start flowering properly.
If you cannot find any flowering nutes, the npk 8-8-8 will probably work as long as you get the soil in order. Plants need more N during vegetative growth and more P during flowering, but a little bit of both is needed for the plant to remain healthy. Like SweetBOG said, normally you would feed the plant nutes with low N, high P and medium K in order to boost flowering.
You can use the daylight 6400k cfl's for flowering but they will not work nearly as well as the warmlight 2700k cfl's. I would say that it is almost a must if you want the plants to put out a decent amount of bud. Blue light promotes vegetative growth even under a 12/12 light schedule, while the red light tells the plant that autumn is coming and it will start flowering properly.
