Is it about pride just as much as it is about money?

[chubbynugs]

Fear, not pride.

I totally agree with that. I dont think the government is too prideful when it comes to cannabis. They know it has medicinal benefits but they are making too much money by fighting it. They are afraid once they regulate it if they do that they will be making less money annually. Its like investing in risky stock for them. By keeping it illegal they have a guaranteed income through taxes. Also they have played this illegal thing for so long that it is easier to just roll with the flow of things already set in place.

As for people not involved with politics i still dont think it is pride but more ignorance then anything else. For most ignorance is conditioned into their thought process.

 

[nephilthim]

hmm

hmm

I think the topic is too broad to draw generalizations about the current legal status of mj..I went to the top of the mountain...what did I find?go the top of the mountain to find yourself..
ah now money their something tangible I can take exception with,coupled with conflict of interest?something all public employees seem to have a hard time saying.........

 

[nnnnghhhhgnnngh]

I'm not so sure politicians have pride in the first place

Take Representative John Lim in Oregon, who argued heavily in 2006 for the listing of Salvia Divinorum as a Schedule I drug. In 2006 most of his election campaign money came from the Oregon Beer & Wine Distributors Association. I'm sure this is just coincidence though right? right?

America has the worst kind of system, where industry media and government are intertwined to the point where nobody will call out corruption until the whole rotting thing comes crashing down.

 

[TrainMan]

Very good points to all who have posted.

Daily marijuana use has had some very interesting effects on my perception.
One thing I have noticed in daily society is a lot of people are like children in
'grown up' bodies. The mental state of many people is tuned to a 'following without thought' nature, many of you see this. It is so wide spread, it's quite incredible. As they say 'Rome was not built overnight', we too are children in this mess, as were your parents. The problem comes from upholding values of another as our own without the question of why. That is where the human stands today. It is starting to change, with the internet so widespread, people are finally communicating. This is good.

Do we have a sort of 'control freak' type leadership in the United States? Well let's take a look at that from a different angle for a minute. The stones on this board will say "the government is bad, it's doing these things, it's manipulating people this and that"..ok maybe. but dig even deeper...America has this particular moto of making it's citizens look at it's country and leaders as some sort of holy grail society. It's that father figure bullshit that they are trying to instill into the heart and minds. If it is a state of falsehood...one might have to step back and realize when they are fighting and getting up and arms about something...step back and look what country you are standing in, really take a good look. Is this ship savable?


ps- " oh but the founding fathers, they uh uh uh".... the founding fathers?? raped the land from the natives? the spanish conquests? the rest of the worlds conquest?? pilgrims?? colonists?? 'americans' ?? british??

always has been about control and power...even our ideas

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Good thread!

I think most people are anti-drug. They don't think people should be getting high at all; that it is irresponsible and self-indulgent. It all goes back to the Puritanical traditions of the past, you know, sobriety and prudence, blah blah blah.

The sad thing is that some real geniuses in the past convinced the government to make drugs illegal so they could start a war. And then because of the dogmatic follower nature of most Americans, nobody wants to question the law. There's enough ignorant people to keep the issue out of the light, and it's their holier-than-thou attitude that keeps it that way. Definitely pride. Not to say greed, envy, sloth, lust, gluttony, and wrath don't play into it.

This is a great point. This hypocritical puranical attitude still permiates the air in the U.S. That is why we can show killing on network T.V. but no nudity, or cussing. George Carlin spoke better than anyone on this subject.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

Very good points to all who have posted.

Daily marijuana use has had some very interesting effects on my perception.
One thing I have noticed in daily society is a lot of people are like children in
'grown up' bodies. The mental state of many people is tuned to a 'following without thought' nature, many of you see this. It is so wide spread, it's quite incredible. As they say 'Rome was not built overnight', we too are children in this mess, as were your parents. The problem comes from upholding values of another as our own without the question of why. That is where the human stands today. It is starting to change, with the internet so widespread, people are finally communicating. This is good.

Do we have a sort of 'control freak' type leadership in the United States? Well let's take a look at that from a different angle for a minute. The stones on this board will say "the government is bad, it's doing these things, it's manipulating people this and that"..ok maybe. but dig even deeper...America has this particular moto of making it's citizens look at it's country and leaders as some sort of holy grail society. It's that father figure bullshit that they are trying to instill into the heart and minds. If it is a state of falsehood...one might have to step back and realize when they are fighting and getting up and arms about something...step back and look what country you are standing in, really take a good look. Is this ship savable?


ps- " oh but the founding fathers, they uh uh uh".... the founding fathers?? raped the land from the natives? the spanish conquests? the rest of the worlds conquest?? pilgrims?? colonists?? 'americans' ?? british??

always has been about control and power...even our ideas

Good stuff. I do sometimes feel like the world is a huge, shitty, childrens' play, and there is only me and a few others in the audience. We are all just sitting back shaking our heads, waiting for it to be over so we can get back to real life.

 

[Pops]

I think that you folks are missing some of the key elements. For our politicians, it is all about power, control and money. If you can control anything in this world, it brings power and money. By controlling milk, you can get contributions from the dairy Industry. By controlling pot, you can get campaign contributions from the religious voters by telling them you are tough on crime. It entails staying with the government lies that pot is dangerous and ignoring(in fact, fighting against) all the medical research that is being done. You also get contributions for your campaign from the cotton industry who doesn't want hemp grown(also the wood pulp industry, the chemical industry who sells tons of herbicides and pesticides to the cotton industry.)

For politicians, it is not about truth,justice and the American Way. It is about maintaining their power,gathering contributions(taking bribes) and getting re-elected.

 

[TrainMan]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8004069.stm


read that^^
maaaaan...2.5 million for a failed campaign....how many people are not eating around the world everyday? one more time...

 

[Cruzin]

Its blind ignorance. Just like racism or any of the other bigotries in our country. They don't need fact or evidence to make up their minds, just gut instinct. Usually these people are also Christian so they dont believe in scientific fact. The world will be a better place when everyone is atheist.

 

[Tony Aroma]

By controlling pot, you can get campaign contributions from the religious voters by telling them you are tough on crime.

Gotta love the whole "tough on crime" thing. Especially when illegal drugs is a made-up crime. Not like murder, or rape, or robbery. Those have always been crimes. But making drugs illegal is totally arbitrary. I guess it's easier to be tough on a custom-made crime. It kind of stacks the deck in your favor. And if you don't appear tough enough, just make up some more crimes that you can crack down on.

Of course they seem to miss the point that if drugs were legal, then it wouldn't be a crime to be tough on. But it is. So they are. It's a circular argument that they can't lose.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

wow, you guys all have great input thanks. I think government does take advantage of old law mens' pride, to retain power, and credibility. It is blind though, just like racism.

 

[sunwukong]

"Marijuana smoking leads to crime/harder drugs/immorality/huricanes/etc.." is just another way several organizations and multibillion dollar corporations use to keep this plant down. Oil, paper companies, pharmaceutical companies, automobile companies, synthetic fiber industry and many more than I can even think of would be in deep trouble if hemp and marijuana were legalized outright. I read recently that converting 6% of americas agricultural land to hemp biodiesel production would completely take care of Americas energy needs. Goodbye ExxonMobil. American Car manufacturers would be forced to redesign from the ground up all of there cars. Hemp production would put companies like 3M, DOW, Xerox and many others like them under intense scrutiny in this ever increasing "green" market for not using a renewable resource and using trees and harmful chemicals to produce a product that is many ways equal or inferior to its hemp counterpart. Smokeable or "drug" cannabis puts many pharmaceuticals like Paxil, Zoloft, Ambien, Methadone and others to shame in comparison in price/effects/safety to user. Big tobbacco and alcohol now has to deal with sharing a bit of the americas "vice cash" pie. Two's company and threes a crowd in their eyes. And whats worse for all of these companies, all of the rich who have been rich cause their great grandaddy happened to do something great, is that they can't own any of it more than we the people can. This site is literally an example of that. People come to post pics and info on how to grow cannabis in not only ur garden, but your basement, attic and bathroom. You can't patent a plant yey under international law, but Monsanto and big Agri-Business's will one day.

Pride, years of propaganda and just plain ignorance are some of the reasons your local law enforcement officer still hasn't warmed up to legalization. That and if they weren't arresting cannabis users, they would be forced to work harder on crime, or lose their jobs. Admitting they were wrong is why your local politician doesn't want to talk about it. How the hell do you explain a law reversal that kept a man in jail for 20 years for something as arbitrary as possessing a plant? God forbid it was in his home or car or whatever else you sold at auction/STOLE from him because of ridiculous drug property laws. "My bad." don't cover it there. The U.S. goverment and law enforcement agencies would owe billions due to property lose. You throw in lawsuits for unjust punishment and cruel and unusual punishment and that runs into the trillions.

Despite this huge potential cost, and earth shattering change the United States, it will happen. Marijuana will at least become decriminalized and available for medical use and research. I see full legalization possible, but only when the powers that be have lined up their chips in their favor to not only profit from, but COMPLETELY control cannabis cultivation. We will never see the day in America when you will be able to walk out into your garden, in a robe and water your 11 foot Thai growing in your front yard. No way. Too much money for corporations to miss out on. Not in a country that takes money from you, just for working to make a living. No f-ing way. Thats my thought.

 

[grasspass]

It is getting kind of old when people blame cannabis laws on Christians. Most the people I know that use cannabis are Christians. From what I have seen as far as voting, a pro-life candidate is going to get most the Christian votes, no matter if they are soft or hard on drug crime. That is mainly how they are convinced to vote republican.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

It isnt about religion. It is more about a facist state of mind, that many people have, and many of them happen to be christain. that is because it is the most popular religion in america. There are facist thinkers that are religious, athiest, left winged, and right winged. Some humans are just power freaks.

 

[TooNormal]

^^ Agreed.

It's not about religion... it's about exerting their will onto others [which some would argue is what all religion is about anyway!] to turn that into power or money.

And if, in a democracy, vocal minorities support an elected candidate or a political figure believes his re-election (Read: ability to exert his/her will and maintain power) depends on the support of that interest-group his opinion WILL change. Take a look at the record of any political official that was considered liberal, libertarian, or free-thinking in their youth. If they made it to any level of seniority in government they probably _had_ to make some concessions along the way - it's a matter of political survival.

Thus why some of our elected officials seem to be possessed by a political version of multiple personality disorder. And we end up standing around going "WTF?".

So how does this tie back to our fight here?

We are a vocal minority - even if 46% of all adults has tried cannabis at one point, that's _still_ a minority.

What's worse, of the remaining 54% of all adults that aren't vehemently anti-legalization - i.e. generally "no opinion" types -- all the data or opinion they have to go on is the now the 40-year old socially accepted norms and data from <ahem> trusted government sources. So without some mainstreaming of the agenda any attempts to change the legal status are going to be an uphill battle between the vocal minorities (pro- and anti- ) and who has the better ad campaign to win over the greater number.

The fight has to tie-back to something "the rest" of the voting population can relate to either monetarily or socially (i.e. MMJ), or you get a response that Jack saw in the laundromat ("Who's this guy and why does he think I care about some pot-smokers the govt. say are bad").

I've even seen that among my "straight" friends that I've formed during my 15-year tolerance break. They had a friend that was pretty baked at a couple of get-togethers and labeled them "pothead" - yeah, ok but meanwhile we're sitting in a bar with a few drinks under our belt, why the @#$% is that any different? Because it's socially acceptable and "mainstreamed".

The media attention is good, and MMJ is good, because it mainstreams it more. That's what the fight needs.